Current (SVN) development discussion thread

Solution, move your capital 1-2E, after all that is where the actual capital is.

Changing capital placement will solve absolutely nothing. The original position (Yux mutal) is:
a) vastly inferior
b) provides no acces to stone needed for Temple of Kukulkan
c) cripples Olximhché which is a nobrainer 2nd city and needs to rush library (to get Calendar in time)

And no i am not puting my capital on that corn. Screwing you cities isn't worth 1 free specialist.

Conclusion - ignore City states civic for civilization called "Mayan city-states" and which UHV requires to rush code of laws :crazyeye:



For the Maya perhaps, but people also mentioned France. And I don't want civs like France or Spain to benefit from it. Also, City States is there to encourage you to settle closely, and that effect gets lost with such a long distance.

Well unforutantely Spain and France can effectively enjoy the city states even with just a 3rd ring. All you need to do is to put your capital into the centre of your core area and all cities here will get this bonus.

Conclusion: City states civic is used by France and Spain and I've even though to use it as the HRE (though Berlin would have to be capital).
However it is avoided by Greece (seriously who would play with sparta) or Maya for whom it would make much sense. Something is wrong here ;)
 
Conclusion: City states civic is used by France and Spain and I've even though to use it as the HRE (though Berlin would have to be capital).
However it is avoided by Greece (seriously who would play with sparta) or Maya for whom it would make much sense. Something is wrong here ;)
Your solution?
 
Well I gave it a some thought.

The city states should represent the greek, babylonian and also renessaince Italy forms of goverment. Thus only smaller civilizations should profit from it and it should probably go obsolete.

The biggest reason why it is so imba with feudal nations such as Spain and France is simple - the western Europe is too small. From Madrid the bonus reaches 90% of Iberia.

The solution which comes to my mind is to replace the required 3rd ring from capital. Simply make it + 1 free specialist in every city (or in 3 largest only if that sounds to powerful).
The drawback would be current increased city maintenance cost plus large stability penalty for expansion.The concept in my mind is that you would be able to run 3 cities while staying stable with this civic.

I would like to achieve the following effects:
- City states would not require you to settle cities so closely, which isn't usualy worth it (unless you play in wester Europe) thus:
- More civs could effectivly run city states, i.e. Phoenicia (historical)
- If you want to expand (more than cca 3 cities) you need to switch out unless you have extraordinary stability(and even than the expansion would be small). So you can run city-state Spain but forget about colonizing.
-Even if you have just 3 cities and go for cultural victory, the vastly culture-expanding borders would bring strain to your stability so it would be challenge to keep it.

Thoughts?
 
The thing is, if it's just a free specialist, everybody goes along with it. It's simply too good. Expansion penalties (which are already there by the way) are fine, but they don't really limit you while you stay in your historical area (so we still have the problem of medieval Eurocivs running it).

There are two things that should hold true for City States:
- Dynasticism needs to be competitive
- Later in the game (Renaissance) it should fall out of use

I think it balances well with Dynasticism even if it would have completely free specialists, because many civs need happiness badly. But there's no real reason to abandon it once you have the necessary happiness.

[At the moment I'm thinking about if the proposed advantages for higher culture should be the city states effect instead].
 
Well simply make the extra stability penalty independent on fact if it's historical area or not. It is extra instability caused by civic afterall.

Culture city level 1 (with fat cross only) covers 21 tiles. So after you have more than i.e. 70 tiles you'll get 1 extra instability per tile(this would probably require some balancing).
As the culture will grow you will be pressed to switch. Remember that culture is burden especialy in early game.

As for dynasticism, the happiness bonus shouldn't be neglected. The civic is especialy useful early game when you have high food city spots such as Paris. Personaly I switched to this civ as Byzantium, since it allowed me to get multiple religions - and thus multiple monasteries.

If you want technicaly it should be possible to play city states Spain. Just as it's now possible to get conquerors with China or play Islamic caliphate of America.
 
^Actually, it was always possible to get conquerors with China or spread Islam to America and play an Islamic America, even in vanilla RFC.

Also, the stone and the second Library is better used on the Chicago city spot,
but I already know your stance on that.
 
Does AI Spain send armies to attack human occupied Manila in Trading Company event now, Leoreth?
 
^Actually, it was always possible to get conquerors with China
Yeah. The only thing preventing a Human China from getting conquerors is arriving too early (before 1300).

However, I do agree that City States should be viable with France or Spain, and even the HRE. Catalonia/Barcelona is autonomous community within Spain today. Not to mention the past fragmentation of Spain into Leon, Castille, Aragon, and others - each of which would consist of 1 city (or less) on the DoC map.
 
Does AI Spain send armies to attack human occupied Manila in Trading Company event now, Leoreth?
No, I didn't get around to take care of this yet.
 
This is not important but cultural border near Tibet always looks ugly like this:
Spoiler :


Really hope next commit will come soon. I need to declare on independents to play my India game. :)
 
Must finish some persecution stuff and then I will commit.
 
I've been seeing this happen in every game so far:
Spoiler :


Khmer just sits in Angkor. Dunno if it's because of Chinese culture up north and Indonesian down south, or because of some other reason, but they just don't move out.
 
The same happens to Portugal (at least sometimes). And Viking now likes to settle Scotland with the 3rd settler for some reason.
 
The Eastern Black Sea could use a tea resource

 
New commit is up.

It should fix the declare war on independents stuff as well as the removal/replacement of pagan temples on religion spread. I've also added interface messages to document the latter.

Also, there's a "Persecution" project now, which can be built in cities with non-state religions to remove one of them. It also causes disorder and temporary unhappiness. Every civ can only build one persecution at a time. Players can choose which religion to exterminate via popup, the AI uses state religion specific priority lists. I'm still working on the AI for it, because currently it doesn't use it very often, and I don't really now what the parameters should be so the AI does use it.

But yes, you can get rid of non-state religions now.
 
Portugal needs a MASSIVE tech boost, you can't even reach Economics (UB) before the UHV is over. Galley should be able to upgrade to Carrack, they both can carry two of any unit, but the carrack is faster and can explore rival territory, only improvement. Also you can't utilize Portugal's stability map as tons of 3 tiles of historical area isn't all that useful when every city gets you 7-15 foreign tiles (will collapse you). The player really can't match the expansion of the Portuguese Empire: Elmina 1482, Socotra 1507, Goa 1510, Malacca 1511, Makassar 1514, Hormuz 1515, Shangchuan Island 1516, Ceylon 1517, Bahrain 1521, Mozambique 1522, Bombay 1534, Nagasaki 1570...
 
Galley should be able to upgrade to Carrack
The upgrade system makes that impossible, unless you make Carrack replace Galleon, upon which Tiremes will not be upgradable to Carracks.

As for the tech, I suggest making Feitoria require Banking + Optics instead. Feitorias also have very good synergy with Capitalism now. AI Portugal's late game (post-Economics) teching rate is fantastic in my games - almost comparable with England. It's just hard for them to get to Economics early.

Same with Dikes. It should be available with Replaceable Parts, or the Dutch will never be able to build one before 1775.
 
The Mongols haven't been nerfed, although at one point I intended to increase their distance maintenance modifier, but forgot about it again (I lowered it early while they still needed a buff, but now it makes their large empire too tech-effective which it shouldn't be).

Good points about Portugal and the Netherlands.
 
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