Need help at immortal level

Darkvlador

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
9
Hi, i am currently playing at the immortal level and exept with 2 or 3 civs allowing migthy war combo (Hippus, Calabim and golem) i never win. the AI crush me arround turn 250; what is the tactic ? I think that at this level you need to exterminate civs arround before they exterminate you; maybe i am wrong so if some one have any solution. For example how manage the Elohim once their wall is fallen ? or what i have to do before ? Here is my very general tactic
- take one to three turn in order to spot the best place
- start building 1 worker/ search agriculture (i hope it is this name in english) it take arround 15 turn
-build warrior until max pop/search ressource explotation tech (depending of the terran)
-build colon and new town build warrior/ search religion if avantageous, start great people
-go to bronze working if bronze near and after look for doctrine
-complete first generations tech
-look after the more appropriate type of level units
-look for dev tech (maths, hygiena...)
-Be destroy by civ arround, even when the take my fonded religion and have buissness whit me....
 
Just to be clear on this before someone else asks - What civilization are you playing as?
Also, I suggest not ever starting with building a worker, since it's built with food. Let it grow a bit first, and building that worker will be much faster, later.
 
I start building either a warrior, if i am an elf or dwarf (for the double movement, due to flavor starts), or a scout if anyone else.

I normally start building a worker around population 3, which makes it happen a little faster, and depending on the start location, the worker is done when the first/second tech is done.

I hate building a worker first, and all he has to build is roads >_<
 
I dont think so, at pop 1 if you have a 3 food spot, it give you 3 for the worker, the second pop need 2 food so you can only use what is in excess, usualy 1 food or hammer; it dont maxe any big difference. By the time you build the worker you also found agriculture (15 to 16 turns) so when you start building warrior tou can build farm and search for road or another terran improvement tech. It is a little bit risquy becose your worker is without protection until the warrior come but it s arround turn 25 and there is not many barbarian (and not this damned Mokka yet).
But trouble came a little late. If i play a not particulary agressive civ (no war trait or early powerfull units) because i need colon and units for protection; with agressive civ you don't have to build colon, you take other players's city and workers, it's a lot easy.
 
I play at the Deity/Immortal level (normal speed, Pangaea maps, raging barbarians). I know it's neither necessary nor often possible to destroy all your early nearby rivals. It helps sometimes, sometimes it just aids another civ if you've destroyed his enemy's cities or crippled your economy trying to maintain them.

What I do depends on the civ, map, resources, and enemy proximity. There is no default start (except in a very general sense); every civ has different starting techs, different short term and long term goals:

If I'm on a large/huge Pangaea map, with many enemies (possibly too close for comfort):

* I build four or five warriors first --> defense against barbarians, Orthus, early AI scout rushes, also acts as escort/garrison for future settler/city
* I build a worker after the warriors but I'm flexible here; if the city grew pretty rapidly while the warriors were built, I usually will go for a settler.
* I research basic techs that lead to farms and cottages and early civics like Apprenticeship (+2 XPs for new units), God King (capitol production/economic bonus)
* Early, I delay lengthy research paths unless they add more than one or two bonuses in economy, military, civics or if they "fit" with the situation. As an example, I rarely go for early Bronze Working for the Elves as their strengths lie elswhere but if a native village gives me the Mining tech, I'll research Bronze Working (640:science: ) fast even if it delays Education or other more basic techs.
* I avoid trying to get all the basics early which is tempting because they're cheap and necessary at some point - but doing this can delay too much your using your civ's strengths. I get the basic techs I can and do use immediately.
* I push expansion through settlers/conquest early; the AI civs expand like maniacs and if I'm quietly cultivating fields and raising cottages while they have ten, eleven, twelve cities to my five, I'm going to likely be in big trouble. I research the relevant civics and techs ready for reducing costs. Civics like Aristocracy and City States, buildings like courthouses.

From what you said in your OP, imo:

You may be researching Bronzeworking a little too early (it's an expensive early path Crafting (210 :science: ) => Mining (210) => Bronze Working (640) that unless you're on the warpath, or have nearby Gold and Wine resources doesn't seem right early on for the Elohim), imo you're building a worker too early, it seems like you may be spreading out your research too much ["complete first generations tech"?]and not building up a military that can persuade others to leave you alone. An early extermination of your enemies is not needed usually and usually not possible - though it can be done.

You mentioned the Elohim; I don't play them but this is an older Elohim guide that I think is still useful. He lays out research paths, discusses Elohim strengths, goals, units, religion.

Generally, most civs can have vaguely similar starts, but at Immortal/Deity level, it helps to play to your strengths asap. When I'm the Ljosalfars, I usually go for Agriculture ==>Ancient Chants==> Mysticism ==> Education ==> Hunting ==> etc. because I've the Fellowship of the Leaves in mind but I wouldn't recommend this path for other civs, even though it has some of the techs they'll need too.
 
@Darkvlador:

Now is a good time for another open game. Choose a civ and a start (that is, a save from turn zero, or after scouting but before turn 5) (with patch y) and post it for people to play. Then we can compare games.
 
Anyway, some other elements that you did not mention that can help in the early game are:
* cities on hills (the Guerilla promotion is powerful)
* archery
* great people
and a little later:
* catapults
* the Trade tech, for getting peace without losing a city

I have trouble with Immortal starts too. I usually play Emperor with Increasing Difficulty and AI No Level Requirements. That makes the late game (when the AI is weak) challenging, without making the early game too hard.

I also reroll starts. I try to play 1 in 3 starts that I generate.
 
Thank you for your advices, i will try to build my worker late, after warriors. Last night (argh) i started a immo game with Kuriotates and once again i had to crush the nearest civ (orcish) before building my second city, thanks to copper weapons. But i am near first rank at turn 250. The game is currently turning to world war and 5 huges city may only build 5 unit at the same time, it would be hard to survive in near future (the last altar is very far o the tech tree).
 
And Jet, your suggestion about "open game" is interresting but i am not very gifted with PC (i am the kind of guy who have a PC care taker 's friend) so you had to explain me what to do; better if you want to take care of that i am ok (yes i am this kind of guy).
 
And Jet, your suggestion about "open game" is interresting but i am not very gifted with PC (i am the kind of guy who have a PC care taker 's friend) so you had to explain me what to do; better if you want to take care of that i am ok (yes i am this kind of guy).

I'm up for an open game, a 100-200 turns or so anyway, nothing longer, just to see how things shape up.
 
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