June/July Patch Notes

I like the addition of the Stone Works building. Like a stable, it offers +1:c5production: per resource + 1:c5production: just for building it. This provides another opportunity to improve production in a similar way to the stable should you find yourself with stone/marbles resource instead of sheep/cows/horses. Good job devs.
 
India might be my new favorite civ after all of this.

Dampen early game Grand Strategies to give the AI time to expand (AI were sometimes stuck in a single city until late in the game).

Forget all the other changes, this might actually be the biggest change to the game in terms of gameplay.
 
And what's with that ridiculous pyramids nerf? It was bad enough with 50%. Now it's completele useless. It should be +75% speed for workers. Or just keep that change and make workers stackable!

I wouldn't really call it a nerf. If you go for early Pyramids a free worker can have a huge impact on your economy.

There's a lot of experienced players out there who essentially have to discard their style of play and re-learn how to play many aspects of the game.

Beelining is gone. RAs are 50% gone. They were overpowered and now they seem pretty useless until the midgame. Like stepping up from one ditch and getting into another ditch. Happiness and production nerfed.
That's one point of view. Another one would be that they're fixing obvious exploits, like when they got rid of the CS slingshot in Civ4. I think it's good to degrade some srategies from "no-brainer" to "viable option" (Civ4 CS slingshot; Civ5 National College start).

RAs may be nerfed, but they are still very good if you know how to use them. Research the cheap techs shortly before a RA is completed and you can speed up a tech of your choice. Get Rationalism (which really needed a buff) and
Porcelain Tower (which was OK, but not that good) and you basically can get a free tech of your choice.
 
I am deeply worried that such huge changes to the game are implemented in one single update. There's a lot of experienced players out there who essentially have to discard their style of play and re-learn how to play many aspects of the game.

Beelining is gone. RAs are 50% gone. They were overpowered and now they seem pretty useless until the midgame. Like stepping up from one ditch and getting into another ditch. Happiness and production nerfed not to mention most players favorite wonders. Who will build the Christo Redentor again, even in a cultural win game? Pyramids and Stonehenge not worth the early precious hammers invested anymore...
...

Well, I respectfully disagree with you Agent Cooper. I am a very experienced player who hasn't played Civ V Vanilla for a couple of months because, frankly, I was bored to death with the "same old -- same old." I think it will be refreshing to start playing with the new patch, when released; it will be sort of like starting a brand new game, won't it?

Yeah, I pretty much always built Pyramids and Stonehenge; so now I guess I might skip these two and build granaries or some such instead. But what about the Great Library??? I always wanted to build the GL, and was sometimes successful, but then I sometimes wouldn't have a library yet and would fall behind on science.

I hardly ever used RAs, and never used the RA blocking exploit; the new patch RA description does away with the blocking exploit, and I think the RA may now be totally worthwhile.

Although I have won many games at the Immortal & Diety levels, I prefer to play at the Emperor level and try to win every game by domination -- Total World Conquest (TWC).:)
 
See, that's value for money! We've got a whole new game to learn to play!:)
:lol:

Actually, it's value for free since the patch/new game costs nothing. :p

Man, I would love it if I some morning could get into my Fiat and a free update suddenly made it drive and look like a Mercedes. :D
 
That's one point of view. Another one would be that they're fixing obvious exploits, like when they got rid of the CS slingshot in Civ4. I think it's good to degrade some srategies from "no-brainer" to "viable option" (Civ4 CS slingshot; Civ5 National College start).

It seems that to Civ5 devs, every working strategy is an exploit... Well, who wants strategies in a strategy game anyway. :lol:

RAs may be nerfed, but they are still very good if you know how to use them. Research the cheap techs shortly before a RA is completed and you can speed up a tech of your choice. Get Rationalism (which really needed a buff) and
Porcelain Tower (which was OK, but not that good) and you basically can get a free tech of your choice.

Is it confirmed you can now choose the tech which you want RA beakers to go (without blocking exploits)? If it really is so, RA could be somewhat interesting. If those beakers still go to random tech, it'll be junk now (the cost of blocking is not worth it anymore).
 
Well, I respectfully disagree with you Agent Cooper. I am a very experienced player who hasn't played Civ V Vanilla for a couple of months because, frankly, I was bored to death with the "same old -- same old." I think it will be refreshing to start playing with the new patch, when released; it will be sort of like starting a brand new game, won't it?

Yeah, I pretty much always built Pyramids and Stonehenge; so now I guess I might skip these two and build granaries or some such instead. But what about the Great Library??? I always wanted to build the GL, and was sometimes successful, but then I sometimes wouldn't have a library yet and would fall behind on science.

I hardly ever used RAs, and never used the RA blocking exploit; the new patch RA description does away with the blocking exploit, and I think the RA may now be totally worthwhile.

No problem. :)

My point about the wonders, is that they have essentially made +5 of the best wonders in the game almost worthless or bland for no apparent reason. At the same time, Hanging Gardens is now insanely overpowered, but on the hardest leves you won't build it anyway because the AI will beat you to it. Different gameplay sure, but where's the logic??

Since the developers 'borrowed' some of the best bits from Thals mod for this patch (some are mysteriously 100% identical :mischief:), why didn't they borrow that mods RA design as well? It rocks - no exploits, no tech blocking, not overpowered.

Before patch the standard RAs were overpowered and broken. Now they are just broken. But I'm glad if this patch will make you play Civ again if you know what I mean...:)
 
as said, i only have ONE issue.

New building: Stone Works: +1 Happiness and +1 production, and +1 production for each source of Marble and Stone worked. Requires Marble or Stone.
Burial Tomb now correctly has an Artist slot.
Mud Pyramid Mosque reduced 1 Culture.
Circus moved to Trapping.
Forge maintenance reduced 1 gold.
Windmill production modifier reduced 5% to 10%.
Monastery base Culture reduced from 3 to 2. Per resource Culture unchanged.
Mint gold per resource reduced by 1 gold.
Colosseum maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
Theatre maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
Stadium maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
Broadcast tower cultural modifier reduced to 33% but now gives 3 Culture.
Armory maintenance reduced by 1 gold and moved to Machinery.
Military academy maintenance reduced by 2 gold.
Arsenal moved to rifling and now provides city defense instead of unit production.
Walls now gives 4 Defense (was 5).
Walls of Bablylon now give 6 Defense (was 7.5).
Mughal Fort now gives 6 Defense (was 9).
Castle now gives 4 Defense (was 7.5).
University maintenance reduced by 1 gold and now gives a 33% boost to science instead of 50% (will increase to 50% after adopting Free Thought Policy).
Military Academy now requires Armory instead of Barracks.
Arsenal now requires Castle instead of Military Academy.
Military Base now requires Arsenal.
Wat now requires Library.
Mud Pyramid Mosque now requires Monument.
Harbor naval production reduced 10% but now increases sea resources yield by 1 hammer.
Seaports no longer require a sea resource, they now require a Harbor. Production per sea resource reduced by 1 hammer.
Factory production increased by 1 hammer but modifier decreased to 10%.
Solar/Nuclear plant cost greatly reduced.
Solar/Nuclear plant production increased by 1 hammer but modifier decreased to 15%.
Public School science per population reduced by 50% and now provides a flat 3 science.
Research Laboratory modifier reduced by 50% but now gives a flat 4 science.
Workshop production modifier reduced by 5%.
Barracks, Armory, Military Academy and Krepost now provide experience to all units trained.



Will i ever be able to make buildings again? How about removing them if make them worthless? How about reduce maintenance costs a lot so they are at least somewhat worth it?
 
The way I understand it you get a lot of research points the turn the agreement is completed. So they would first go to whatever you're researching at the moment, but since we have research overflow, why wouldn't you research the tech you want right now ?
Come to think of it the median tech point rule makes beelines in the strictest sense harder, but if you neglect one tech line and concentrade on getting several very expensive options you can still use RAs to get very advanced techs or many cheaper techs in short order.
 
very sad to see that my favourite wonders are ruined. Also sad to see so many buildings nerfed so much. Other than that, good update. To the people who are complaining that they can't play deity anymore, if you were relying on the exploits the allow you to beat deity, then that's good.
 
first the bad.

More nerfing of terrain and reducing its importance to where you settle is a bad idea IMO (changes to Mint etc). Slightly balanced by the stone introduction. Sill a nerf IMO.

Also the :) nerfs seem misguided but I'll wait to play it before I condemn this out of hand. My gut says that increased base city :c5unhappy: with the reduced :) from lux is a bad combo. One or the other maybe but not both.

Making Windmills even more rubbish won't make people build them! I tend to only build them if I want the eng spec.

BIG nerf to factories. Ok so production values are down but for the us e of a coal resource I want more than 10% boost!

Bazaars. Please please please please tell me that this is now the only bonus they supply. Please?

Wonder changes are a mixed bag.
For the Pyramids I'd have kept it at 50% and added the free worker!
Great Libary. If it keeps the free tech then this is a bit OP IMO. If it doesn't then its not that great as far as I can see. Maybe increase the GPP?

Landed Elite. 1 :) per 10 pop?! Give it a rest! A nice idea in a way but maybe make it for say, 6 pop?

If Theocracy loses its :) then this is really rubbish. If it doesn't it makes this a bit OP.

Making Freedom and Order mutually exclusive isn't all that great. Also a liberal autocracy is now possible? That makes no sense to me.

Communism is now a bit weak IMO. Late game SPs should have big bonuses as you won't get many of them in general.

Now for the good. These are only the fings I'm really pleased about

RA changes! No more forgetting to block techs and getting annoyed.

SP tree finishers.

GP improvement improvements. Still unlikely to build many of them but hey.

German and Ottoman UA changes. Great! Ottomans still abit rubbishthough.

Improved tanks!



Anything not mentioned I'm generally not bothered by, I think is good idea or i just don't know about until I play the changes.

Overall I like this and I'm grateful to the devs for keeping the effort up.
 
Anybody worried about production just needs to settle Great Engineers -- are we looking at a 10-hammer tile in the late game?
 
India might be my new favorite civ after all of this.

I don't believe so, because india has increased unhappiness per city doubled. Before you need 4 city size to get happier, then a city size of 6 to get more happiness, so basically india will start to become superior some turns later - maybe from early medieval to late medieval - when expanding.
 
@ Grandad: I hope not... I would hate it if they did that to Arabia.

Great updates, to say the least, but there are a few things that bug me:
It seems just about everything has been nerfed. It seemed very bad at first, but then I realised that just about everything has been taken to a smaller scale, instead of just a few things being made bad.

- How will the patch affect happiness? It seems now that a new empire path is being introduced, that excels in happiness. It seems that the number of cities a player has has been taken to a smaller scale a bit, because happiness will be even more of a pain in the behind.

- Buildings seem to be a worse investment than they used to be compared to military units, since they where not nerfed...

- I have mixed feelings about the military game. An empire begout through military means is harder to manage, and It's also not so much worth it to conquer the whole world, BUT military units have not been nerfed and city defence has, so it seems that military is easier in smaller scales, but not really worth it if you take it to the long run.

In conclusion, the game seems to have been revamped completely. Time and gameplay will tell, if this was a bad decision, but nevertheless it was very brave of Firaxis to revamp almost the whole game.
 
Anybody worried about production just needs to settle Great Engineers -- are we looking at a 10-hammer tile in the late game?

There are so many maintenace reductions, and so many golds buffs for wonders that I think buying buildings will be more viable now.
 
Anybody worried about production just needs to settle Great Engineers -- are we looking at a 10-hammer tile in the late game?
That's great - I've always wondered about what to do with those 7 GEs I usually have running around with no purpose at midgame...;)
 
Free Speech provides 8 maintenance free units. :eek:
Doesn't it sound weird?:lol:
 
The March patch finally made ciV enjoyable for me after 6 months of the disappointment and frustration of the release version.

The next patch makes a lot of changes that may be even more enjoyable but has the risk of being a complete FU due to the happiness nerf.

What if I decide I like the March balance better after trying the July patch? Because of the evil Steam component, there is no way I can go back to the March patch. So I have the choice of staying with something I currently enjoy and missing out on some good changes or taking the changes and risking having a game that I no longer enjoy.

I only play SP and cannot use modded games on my main computer for security reasons. I don't give a flying freak about compatibility in MP games. How about steam giving me an option to back track on patches?
 
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