Venice discussion

nunor

King
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
786
Since there are leaked screenshots everywhere now, I think we can safely assume the last two BNW civilizations are confirmed. One of them is, as expected, Venice!

Leader: Enrico Dandolo

Symbol:

Lion of St. Mark, symbol of Republic and City of Venice, but standing for some reason

Unique Ability: Serenissima
Cannot gain settlers nor annex cities. Double the normal number of trade routes available. A Merchant of Venice [Unique Unit 1] appears after researching Optics. May purchase in puppeted cities.
Spoiler :


Unique Unit 1: Merchant of Venice
This Venetian unique Great Person replaces the Great Merchant. Aside from the ability to conduct a Trade Mission, the Merchant of Venice can purchase city-states outright, bringing them under Venetian control as a Puppet.
Spoiler :


Unique Unit 2: Great Galleass
A brutally powerful Medieval Era Naval Unit used to wrest control of the seas with its ranged attack. Better at attacking and defending than the normal Galleass it replaces, but more expensive.
Spoiler :


How do you feel about this anticlimactically-revealed Venice? Disappointed? Excited? Hungry for hats?
 
I'm definitely a bit dissapointed because they don't seem as special as the "pro", "bombshell", "hypercube" comments hyped it up to be.

With their unique ability practically being an a bit less exciting version of Austria's and a kinda bland sounding "double trade routes".
 
At the beginning, I was quite surprised at this choice for a civ, but knowing that I love playing with one or a few cities, primarily tinkering with culture and economics, I have a feeling I gonna get seriously hooked on Venice.
 
I'm definitely a bit dissapointed because they don't seem as special as the "pro", "bombshell", "hypercube" comments hyped it up to be.

With their unique ability practically being an a bit less exciting version of Austria's and a kinda bland sounding "double trade routes".

You missed the "cannot settle their own cities" bit? That's pretty far out of the box given it's a, if not the, core mechanic of the Civilization series.
 
DeathDragon: Perhaps... I still don't feel like we have a handle on how important trade routes will be for an economy, etc. If it's like I suspect, Venice has the strongest economy in the game.

Rather disappointed that they have no bonus to the 'production' of their Great Merchants.

Also, 'may purchase in puppetted cities'... does that apply to the Merchants of Venice, or ANYTHING? If the latter, Venice is a military/economic powerhouse.
 
You missed the "cannot settle their own cities" bit? That's pretty far out of the box given it's a, if not the, core mechanic of the Civilization series.

That itself is pretty hypercube. Now the interesting question is what if you steal an enemy settler or a CS gifts you conquistador? Can you then settle a city?

Anyway i like it. Some people might think it is a weak Civ but that makes it all the more interesting in devising a winning formula.
 
Excited and disappointed at the same time.
When people stated to speculate about Venice and a 'pro' and 'hypercube' civ were mentioned I expected a city-state civ.
And a city-state civ is exactly what I wanted, but I did hope they'd at least be able to found puppets.
Anyway, the ability looks very useful, but the Merchant of venice is a disappointment. It's like a toned down version of Austria's ability, and I hate Austria's ability. There can be no peace with Maria Theresa. Everytime I see her I know I'll have to go to war to keep her busy and too poor to destroy a City State. I'll probably need to do the same to Venice when I see them in a game.
 
Venice sounds like an interesting civ and quite interesting to play! As sort of supercharged OCC.
There's a lot of criticism against Venice, but I actually like it and am curious how it'll play out! :)
 
Sorry, but this is necessary now:

HA!!!! I WAS RIGHT!!!

Kudos for that!

Venice was never a city-founding empire, so I feel they came up with an interesting mechanic to simulate the way they expanded their influence on other existing cities through economy.
 
Whenever you take an enemy settler it becomes a worker even for non venetians. Man I always hate Austria in games, since their UA is annoying. Venice is going to be that and have the added, the AI cannot possibly use this well and the civ will gravely distort map balance. Here is a question, does a deity Venice still get a bonus settler? To be a true pro you need to play Venice only on Plus maps.
 
Anyway, the ability looks very useful, but the Merchant of venice is a disappointment. It's like a toned down version of Austria's ability, and I hate Austria's ability. There can be no peace with Maria Theresa. Everytime I see her I know I'll have to go to war to keep her busy and too poor to destroy a City State. I'll probably need to do the same to Venice when I see them in a game.

I like it because it actually gives somebody a reason to use Great Merchants. It's also not going to be nearly as game-breaking as the Austrian UA, because even if they are leaning hard on merchant specialists (which means foregoing scientists and engineers), the Venetians aren't going to get more than maybe seven or eight in a game, and some of those will come very, very late.

Using a Merchant to puppet a CS also means losing out on what I think is 2000 gold from a trade mission, so it's a tough choice.
 
I haven't thought about this before, but can you deselect civs before running a game with random opponents? If that's the case, then you can just blot out Austria and Venice.
 
I'm definitely a bit dissapointed because they don't seem as special as the "pro", "bombshell", "hypercube" comments hyped it up to be.

With their unique ability practically being an a bit less exciting version of Austria's and a kinda bland sounding "double trade routes".

Don't forget that they can buy in puppets. That means your puppets are almost real cities where you can choose production as long as you have enough gold (which you probably will) and they still won't increase policy cost. The only downside is that they can't build wonders and you can't micromanage specialists and worked tiles.

That itself is pretty hypercube. Now the interesting question is what if you steal an enemy settler or a CS gifts you conquistador? Can you then settle a city?

Stolen Settlers are always converted to workers. I don't know how they'll handle the conquistador. I suppose you'll be able to found cities, but that shouldn't happen very often.

Anyway i like it. Some people might think it is a weak Civ but that makes it all the more interesting in devising a winning formula.

Yeah, they look like a civ that can be very powerful. But only in the right hands.
 
I'm definitely a bit dissapointed because they don't seem as special as the "pro", "bombshell", "hypercube" comments hyped it up to be.

With their unique ability practically being an a bit less exciting version of Austria's and a kinda bland sounding "double trade routes".

Well, a civ that prioritizes Great Merchants is certainly living in another hypercube from all the others :p.

Jokes aside, I think the experience will be quite different from the usual civs. No city micro-management, a completely different city creation method, an insane focus on money making... Quite different from how I play the game, at least.
 
While I don't think we know 100% yet, the fact that Venice puppets City States it takes over certainly implies that, UNLIKE the Austrian ability, those City-States are still 'puppeted City-States', and not 'Cities that are now, and have always been, Austrian cities'.

It's more like a fixed Austria ability than another one. Also, IIRC the Merchant of Venice's ability to 'buy out' a City-State is considered an improved Trade Mission, which means that while there's certainly a cost, it might be more like an opportunity cost where instead of 2k gold, you get 500g and the City-State.

Finally, this is now another Great Person that you can get from CSs with Patronage.
 
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