Greed

Yes, of course, if someone's capable of accessing the internet and has an opinion on a thing, that is the smoking gun that proves their life situation is ideal for packing their bags, moving, and living anywhere they'd like. So many people who choose (for absolutely mysterious reasons nobody can fathom) to live in bad places, they can just move to better places.

Unless they can't do that, but they're probably not "here" so we're not paying attention to those. Because if we did, you'd look foolish.

Chum said:

Really? Let me connect the dots for you.

If you're wealthy enough to be complaining about the price of video games, and the DRM associated with them, and you're in a good enough situation to be sitting around arguing semantics and strategy of a video game on an internet forum, then yes, you absolutely do have the capacity to make that choice.

Certainly there are people who are not. But there's probably not any of them here, unless they're underage. In which case, deal with it, you're a kid, life isn't fair.

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This is why I don`t waste my time responding to unthinking people like this one above. I was once with a woman who she said `poor people are poor because they want to be.` The same crap as poor people have no right to even enjoy anything like games, right? Or decent food? I guess such talk makes rich people feel less guilty?

I have no time for callous medieval thinking of highly selfish people like that...

But in my view mandatory Steam rides on this kind of selfishness which is why, in my own little way, i protest it because mandatory Steam penalises those who may not have access to the net even if they have the money to buy a game.

Chum said:

I can still play the very first game I bought on Steam 11 years ago? You think it's going somewhere sometime soon? Got some information the rest of us don't know? No? Okay, go ahead and keep stockpiling silver for when the economy collapses, bro. Get your apocalypse seeds ready.



So you think that developers aren't entitled to make money off their games then? Is that it? That's what you're all butthurt about? The fact that they actually want to make you buy their game and make sure you're playing a legit copy? In the LEAST intrusive way possible invented as of yet? What happens when your old CD's are scratched? Oh, guess you're outta luck on playing that 20 year old game, aren't you? STUPID PHYSICAL DRM!!!1111!!!



So then why bring it up as some sort of argument against one particular platform?

Look, I don't know what the problem is with some of you people. It's some kind of rage against the internet connectivity piece, or the fact that you have unreliable internet, or whatever. But lets be realistic. You CAN live in a place with broadband internet. You CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. You have decided to live this lifestyle, where you either are unable to or unwilling to have a decent internet connection, which is the ONLY thing that Steam requires. I don't see people who don't have running water complaining about having to crap in an outhouse anymore. They know what lifestyle they want to live, and they accept it. Do the same, and save the rest of us your nonsensical rants.

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What does the apocalypse have to do with wanting a REAL LIBRARY of GAMES at home that i can just pop in and play without further dependencies. The thing is i can choose to take care of my CD, but i cannot choose whether or not a DRM game that I chose to RENT at full price will be able to run in 25 years - fact.

Oh look, its the developers RIGHT to make money point, I get it now, you must be in development. You basically just made our point. They want to maximize profit = GREED. DRM protects developers more than it protects the consumer. Buy, then OPEN a subpar game thats is buggy or just sucks - can you normally get a refund?

Plus, DRM doesnt stop pirating does it? does it? Any DRM game can be cracked.

AND what would have DRM done for the XBOXONE market as originally intended if you want me to bring up another platform... what restrictions would gamers of had?? exactly... the Original DRM move for MS was about GREED.

Using your logic, every genocide victim throughout time had a choice to live in peace.

People generally dont care about specific diseases until they contract one themselves.

DeletedSettler said:

Without DRM, Civ V will be at a rock-bottom price forever. It's that blasted DRM that's keeping the prices up!

What are you even basing this off of? Why wouldn't they just stay DRM-free but keep the price up at $30 or whatever CiVanilla is right now? What's the force that would cause the price to permanently drop forever?



I'm going to call bologna on this quote. This is an extremely privileged and rather selfish statement to make. Do you seriously think somewhere as fundamental as "where you live" is a choice you can flip around any time you want? Oh, of course, move somewhere better, thanks, Chum, I never would have thought to do that.

This is the same sort of "use your bootstraps" nonsense I hear from folks blaming poor people for "choosing" to be poor.

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Well before DRM, you could buy used PC games at EB back in the day for one. Those days were great for the PC gamer. It made used PC games that would work easily assessable to the consumer - not like it is now. it was great because you didnt have to waste full price on garbage and you could find gems like civ if you werent familiar with it - thus becoming a fan of a new franchise. btw thats how i became a civ fan and have since bought 2-5 new and for full price

Mudrac said:

You see. You are overgeneralizing again. It's like all older gamers had more will, while never ones have very little. It is next to impossible that all newer gamers have very little will. Besides will is part of someone's personality, although it can also be increased or decreased, but still it's mostly a characteristic.

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It is a generalization. The whole thread has been about generalizations, and yes, the old time gamer had to have more will. That isn't to say there aren't some gamers now that do, but by in large, they have less will, less tolerance, and less desire to overcome obstacles.

Socratatus said:

This is why I don`t waste my time responding to unthinking people like this one above. I was once with a woman who she said `poor people are poor because they want to be.` The same crap as poor people have no right to even enjoy anything like games, right? Or decent food? I guess such talk makes rich people feel less guilty?

I have no time for callous medieval thinking of highly selfish people like that...

But in my view mandatory Steam rides on this kind of selfishness which is why, in my own little way, i protest it because mandatory Steam penalises those who may not have access to the net even if they have the money to buy a game.

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Actually, I believe chum does have a point. Can post on civfanatics.com = internet access, internet access = steam ok. Unless he's posting from a cafe, but then again, if he is, then he probably should be doing more important/meaningful things than posting here.

aprince said:

What does the apocalypse have to do with wanting a REAL LIBRARY of GAMES at home that i can just pop in and play without further dependencies. The thing is i can choose to take care of my CD, but i cannot choose whether or not a DRM game that I chose to RENT at full price will be able to run in 25 years - fact.

Oh look, its the developers RIGHT to make money point, I get it now, you must be in development. You basically just made our point. They want to maximize profit = GREED. DRM protects developers more than it protects the consumer. Buy, then OPEN a subpar game thats is buggy or just sucks - can you normally get a refund?

Plus, DRM doesnt stop pirating does it? does it? Any DRM game can be cracked.

AND what would have DRM done for the XBOXONE market as originally intended if you want me to bring up another platform... what restrictions would gamers of had?? exactly... the Original DRM move was about what for MS - GREED.

Using your logic, every genocide victim throughout time had a choice to live in peace.

People generally dont care about specific diseases until they contract one themselves.

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The odds of you losing, breaking, or otherwise damaging your disk are much higher than Steam going out anytime soon. And yes, Firaxis and Valve does care about us - otherwise why would they bother patching broken games and listening to player suggestions (read: TF2). They also care about making money, but can't blame them for that, since they're a business. The fact is: disks are simply outdated in the information era where everything is stored in the cloud.

TractorBoy said:

The whole point of this post is to emphasize my thoughts on the greed of game designers in general, make the game easier, make the victory conditions achievable much quicker and satisfy the lust of the younger gererations who need quick satisfaction and won't be passing on their genes in a hurry.

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I didn't really get any of that from points 1-9. Maybe the beginnings of such an argument, but it pretty quickly seemed to descend into miscellaneous ramblings.

There's still a competitive aspect to the game, regardless of the difficulty creep. You also need to keep in mind that they didn't try to improve upon CIV when designing CiV; any subsequent expansions/patching largely tried to move CiV back towards CIV.

Personally, if there's one failing I have to call them out on, it's not handling 1upt properly. I didn't like the stacks of doom in CIV at all, but properly introducing 1upt into CiV required fundamentally redesigning unit restricting mechanics. I could go on, but I'll stop at saying this is a problem that not only did they fail to anticipate adequately, but they've made no effort to address.

Undefeatable said:

The odds of you losing, breaking, or otherwise damaging your disk are much higher than Steam going out anytime soon. And yes, Firaxis and Valve does care about us - otherwise why would they bother patching broken games and listening to player suggestions (read: TF2). They also care about making money, but can't blame them for that, since they're a business. The fact is: disks are simply outdated in the information era where everything is stored in the cloud.

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The Cloud has some uses, such as COST effectiveness for example, unless you need to hire another company to provide additional services such as regional load balancing. However, dont act like its something new. The cloud is a modified computer bureau concept dating back to the 60s-70s.

Sure disks have limitations and a shelf life, but that could evolve given some R&D - i mean the outdated tape is pushing 185 TBs as of 2014

I have no quarrels with fraxis or valve personally. However requiring a launcher to download/install/run games or for me to be always online for any game is a benefit for the developer and not the consumer. Im fine with a cdkey, yeah ok ill activate it (phone/snail mail/net), but that should be all that is needed from me for good. Itune cards are in store aisles unprotected for a reason. It's because they are not activated until the time of purchase. Technically, they could do that for PC games.

Anyway, no matter my position on the matter, DRM is here to stay, unless gog becomes the standard. BTW Fraxis has a game there now: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

aprince said:

Well before DRM, you could buy used PC games at EB back in the day for one. Those days were great for the PC gamer. It made used PC games that would work easily assessable to the consumer - not like it is now. it was great because you didnt have to waste full price on garbage and you could find gems like civ if you werent familiar with it - thus becoming a fan of a new franchise. btw thats how i became a civ fan and have since bought 2-5 new and for full price

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Yea that`s what I miss too. I used to buy games at £30 willy nilly cos I knew I could just resell 2nd hand it if it was crap. You can still get some used games cheaply (in England), but it`s getting rarer and rarer.

I have games in my Steam library that i got years ago (before I realised I couldn`t resell it) that sit there doing nothing that others could`ve once bought and enjoyed instead. Like Fear 3 that is useless.

Steam really killed buying cheap second hand games which illustrates how it suits the company but not the ordinary citizen who wants to save money and the poor.

It`s all down to corporate greed.

DeletedSettler said:

Yes, of course, if someone's capable of accessing the internet and has an opinion on a thing, that is the smoking gun that proves their life situation is ideal for packing their bags, moving, and living anywhere they'd like. So many people who choose (for absolutely mysterious reasons nobody can fathom) to live in bad places, they can just move to better places.

Unless they can't do that, but they're probably not "here" so we're not paying attention to those. Because if we did, you'd look foolish.

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Ugh, jesus christ people.

We're not talking about poor vs rich here. We're talking about an internet connection. Do you get that? AN INTERNET CONNECTION. Like what you're using right now to read this. We're not talking about people in Bangladesh making 7 dollars a month who are having problems playing Civ 5. We're more than likely talking about people who live in parts of the first world (because they're wasting time playing video games instead of, oh, I dunno, toiling in fields or garment factories for pennies a day) who are living in a non-metropolitan area thru choices of their own volition. You don't own a cattle ranch and live 150 miles from the nearest internet connection because you value internet. You do it because you value that lifestyle more than you value what modern conveniences get you. If you REALLY cared about playing video games all day, you can sell the ranch and get a day job in the city and have broadband internet where connectivity isn't an issue. You ABSOLUTELY can do that, and everyone in this thread who's currently complaining about internet connectivity can do that because I GUARANTEE you that no one here is in such a terrible situation in life that they are unable to move to a more developed area, yet still finds time to play Civ 5 on the ol' desktop computer.

This is a first world problem, by definition. First world people who have plenty of time to waste playing video games and have nothing better to complain about than the speed of their friggin' dialup connection because they're too cheap to get broadband.

Stop trying to turn this into some class warfare nonsense. It's not. You absolutely are already of a certain class if you are playing this game.

Steam really killed buying cheap second hand games which illustrates how it suits the company but not the ordinary citizen who wants to save money and the poor.

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And replaced it with buying cheap first hand games instead. Do you people even read what you write? You do understand Steam JUST finished with a sale where almost everything in the entire store was 50% off or better? I've picked up probably 100 games over the years for less than $5. DRM killed what now?

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