Question to Warmongers: when do you build Barracks?

Inquiring non-warmongering minds want to know when they usually get built ...

Basically never: you're much better off getting XP off barbs.

no simple answer .. depends on many factors

for Shaka you want Ikanda in ancient/medieval before you build any spearmen/impi to get them special promotions (extra move) ..

if you're going to play the naval game (galleas/frigate) - especially without honor faster XP gain it will take for ever to get ships to +range/ logistics without XP buildings (aldough armory is a bit out of the way tech wise for the naval side of things)

Generally when you know you will have the time to build a few units (no point paying the upkeep if you're going to build aqueduct/university/market whatever infrastructure and not units next) ..

And if going to war extra early (composites) might be worth skipping to get a crucial extra unit instead .. Try to make up for the lack of starting XP by training vs barbs/ farming CS ..

And there is also the option of early barracks and then training vs CS ( zulus can probably get 1 or 2 range and logistics archers by turn 80 that way )

Like a said no clear answer ..

Depends on the war. If I'm fighting with CAs, CBs, Galleass, or XBs then no barracks. Units are better - and the promotion heal can be huge.

Frigates/Artillery/GWBs: barracks, yes, and maybe an armory if I'm waiting for tech.

Nukes: well, no.

Right before constructing Galleass in my designed military unit city.
In base game for other cities shortly before I ready to build Heroic Epic in that city (after an armory but before Privateers) following which all these surplus barracks get sold off to stop wasting GPT.

You really only need 1 designated military unit city as long as its coastal so it can build both naval and land units.

gotta have logistics on mah nukes

Usually, I cannot afford the time to get barracks but I will definitely put one down in my key production cities if I can afford it 'later'...

If you play slower paced games(Marathon) with lots of little exploit actions. Like CS Farming or Barb farming, I could see where every upgrade in the book for Ranged Unit would be awesome. Also anything else you can get like medic units and as many GGs as possible... Why not if you're a wargamer...

I prefer the Strategy of Mass, mirroring the AI a little and relying on the inherent capability of the Unit and a better economy that can outproduce the opponent no matter what. A USSR WW2 sort of direction...

If you want to rush you're better with putting hammers into units. If you have more time just put them down before pumping units.

So for example if you plan on killing someone with CB just make archers/CB and no barracks. If you delay unit spam for example an artillery attack you can try to build barrack + armory before making your canons/artillery/cavalry, sometime after your workshop is the right time.

Especially if you go autocracy.

There is another advantage in ignoring the barracks. Your first promotion comes at 10exp. If one of your units is nearly dead you can take the +50hp heal. It's situational but at certain times it may be very useful

Thanks, guys -- that was my suspicion. A friend is working on a mod and has a replacement barracks, was trying to convince him that it had to be damned good to make it something one would want to build early, even as a warmonger. Earliest version was +2 happiness, +1 culture, no maintenance, but some schmoes in the mod section said it was overpowered bcs of the happiness, I was a little skeptical. I think we'll make it cheaper to build, knock the happiness bonus down by 1.

Glad I posted this -- really good point you guys made about it can be really good to have the early healing 'promotion'.

Since I rarely build catapults or trebuchets unless my unit 'edge' is lacking, for instance against a strong civ with Great Wall, I tend to build Barracks before I spam 5 or 6 cannons, around about the time I'm going for my 4th, 5th or 6th capital. At this time, production is usually good enough that they take a maximum of 2 turns to build, plus another 3 for an armory.

That way, the newly-built cannons get Accuracy/Barrage 1 and Volley 1. I position them on the 2nd ring between the meat-shields and the Gatlings with Range, and very few capitals can withstand more than a few rounds of that.

Not giving them volley only seems worth it if you've not done much warring prior to Chemistry. To my mind, spamming catapults/trebuchets seems like a poor use of hammers since with Honor, my Gatlings/XBs/CBs will do whatever I need anyway.

In my latest game, the ICL game with Poland, my starting 5 archers all survived to Chemistry with every possible promotion, to be turned into UberGatlings.

[EDIT: Also, they are a no-brainer if you choose the happiness tenet in Autocracy. 10 turns and each city can have +3 happiness if you build barracks, armory and military academy with decent hammers. If you take lots of cities late game and annex them, you can pump out the war buildings before you choose Wealth or spam meat shields]

FWIW, I build barracks when the barbs camps start to dry up. I usually try to get both Barracks and Armory between CBs and XBs. I don't usually build too many XBs, but if I do, they need to be level 2 at least out of the gate. I find that I build very few units with only Barracks, except a UU if that's applicable.

Would you warmongery types build a barracks that was half-cost, +1 happiness, +1 culture, no maintenance, that you could build after Pottery? I mean, build it quite early.

(Yes, I know we're wandering into not-this-forum territory but I respect the folks here a lot more than some random modders, I hope Browd will give me a teeny bit of leeway!)

OP, you got the answer that people build barracks relatively late. As you note, it is relatively expensive and a detour on the tech tree. The half-cost, after Pottery would make it much more popular. A low-cost/no maintenance building that was just +1 / would worth it without the +15xp, so now you've got something very OP.

But I have to ask, why are you so vested in having players build barracks earlier in the queue? Its attributes are well balanced now.

Well you are not going to get a consensus here, but IMO, making a barracks into an economically viable building is a little strange - why not buff its military strength if you want to build it early?

These would encourage me to build them early:

- A "free" promotion that does not cost XP
Or - A ~25% increase in production for ranged and melee units
Or - "Frenzy": 5 turns after building a unit in a city with a barracks the unit has +1 move and +15% attack.
Or - Units upgraded in a city with a barracks get a 33% discount.
Or - Without a barracks a city cannot train ranged units

Also, giving barracks a culture yield would make them Legalism-eligible (as a culture building), which would further add to the OP-ness of what you propose.

I think that will be OP.
Just make barrack give 2 culture and people will gladly build it.

I agree with Olodune here, thematically giving the barracks culture and happiness is a little strange and for a 75/2 hammer building OP in my opinion.

What I'd do is to add military production like 10-15%. That way the barracks would reimburse a part of its cost each time you build a unit, which is more thematically sound and would make the barracks more likely to be built in the early game. I wouldn't put it on Pottery either. If you feel Bronze working is too much a detour reduce the cost of the tech instead. I'm not sure it would be balanced since these things takes time to really test but at least it makes more sense. The purpose isn't to make the barracks a no brainer that you always build while taking Pottery.

And Pottery already unlocks two important buildings (shrine and granary) -- adding another "gotta-build" building would make Pottery's dominance as an opening tech even greater, which is not good for game balance.

How about increasing unit supply limit or reduce unit maintenance cost when there is barracks?