Vokarya's Workshop: Units
- Thread starter Vokarya
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Restricting the promotions available to nanites sounds good to me, as do the proposed movement abilities. Restricting promotions means that they won't be over-the-top if you have lots of starting XP, which CAN be used to boost regular units against them.
Will the AI have difficulty with the proposed movement abilities?
Will the AI have difficulty with the proposed movement abilities?
I don't think so. Flat Movement just puts a flat cap on the number of tiles the unit can move each turn. It's not really different from moving early units around a roadless map. All of these abilities are defined in the XML, so it seems to me that the AI should be programmed to take these factors into account.
Two more things on my fix list.
Power Armored Infantry and Walker Droid need to have their upgrade paths switched, so that PAI upgrades to Assault Droid and Walker Droid upgrades to Scout Mech. This makes the "heavy mech" path Power Armored Infantry - Assault Droid - Assault Mech and the "light mech" path Walker Droid - Scout Mech. We need to clean these units up as well, by tweaking the various special abilities. I will look into this.
Assault Droid is underpowered for its placement on the tech tree. It's currently weaker than the Genetic Soldier which comes at about the same place. I think we should raise its strength to 150 (was 130, Genetic Soldier is 140) and its cost to 1300 (was 1100).
Power Armored Infantry and Walker Droid need to have their upgrade paths switched, so that PAI upgrades to Assault Droid and Walker Droid upgrades to Scout Mech. This makes the "heavy mech" path Power Armored Infantry - Assault Droid - Assault Mech and the "light mech" path Walker Droid - Scout Mech. We need to clean these units up as well, by tweaking the various special abilities. I will look into this.
Assault Droid is underpowered for its placement on the tech tree. It's currently weaker than the Genetic Soldier which comes at about the same place. I think we should raise its strength to 150 (was 130, Genetic Soldier is 140) and its cost to 1300 (was 1100).
I was looking at unit stats to figure out some re-aligning of the Mecha unit abilities. I noticed that Fusion Transport has a couple of abilities that I don't think it should have. (I'm not keen on loading too many special abilities on any one unit, even if they are restrictions.) Fusion Transport is already a big upgrade over the Transport, going from Strength 40 to 60, speed 6 to 10, and cargo space 5 to 6.
Here is what I think should be removed:
On top of that, I think the Fusion Transport needs to add Can Only Defend. We have set up that starting with the Steamer, transport ships can only defend. If you want to attack, build real warships. Fusion Transport doesn't have this.
Here is what I think should be removed:
- No invisibility. I don't think the Fusion Transport should be invisible. At all points in the game, I think escorting transports with warships needs to be a factor. This mostly takes that away, which I think is too strong. There are a few units that can see these ships, but not very many.
A slight upside is that we can then remove the Invisibility tech requirement. Fusion has a very high trick count because of all the fusion ships, but they all currently require another technology farther down the tech tree. Removing Invisibility gives Fusion one of these ships all to itself.
I would be willing to remove the Stiletto Boat -> Fusion Transport upgrade path, letting you keep the Stiletto Boat for invisible deployment of troop units only.
- No interception. Fusion Transport has a 5% chance to intercept aircraft. While it is an unlikely chance, I would prefer if the Fusion Transport didn't have it at all. This is also about the need to escort transports. You can take the risk of lone transports, but I would prefer not to make it too easy.
On top of that, I think the Fusion Transport needs to add Can Only Defend. We have set up that starting with the Steamer, transport ships can only defend. If you want to attack, build real warships. Fusion Transport doesn't have this.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
All seems fair and good.
I didn't see enough reason to keep it. I think the less-combative units shouldn't be upgrading as often. Once per era is enough. We had three cargo ships - Steamer, Transport, Landing Ship Tank - in the Industrial Era. Cutting the LST and moving the Transport up effectively makes Transport the cargo ship for the Modern Era. It doesn't upgrade until Fusion. We also simply had way too many naval units of any type in the Industrial.
Is there a reason for Stealth Submarine and Fusion Submarine to have an <iEvasionProbability> stat? It seems to me that evasion only matters to air units (including all missiles) conducting a mission and paratrooper units when conducting a paradrop.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I can't see any reason, to tell the truth. I think you can remove it.
I did some comparison on the Mecha units. Since I'm flipping the upgrade paths of Power Armored Infantry and Walker Droid around, and they both show up at the same tech now (Automated Vehicles), I would like to have these units have fairly similar special abilities. Assault Droid is missing a few abilities that PAI and Assault Mech share, and the city strength stats seem to have no logic. I'm also adding some downgraded versions of Assault Droid's abilities to PAI. As long as PAI requires Mech Assembly Plant, you should get something good out of it.
Power Armored Infantry
Assault Droid
Walker Droid
Power Armored Infantry
- Add Collateral Damage: 60% max damage to 6 units. Assault Droid and Assault Mech have Collateral max 70%/8 units.
- Add Ranged Attack: Range 1, 70% Accuracy. Assault Droid and Assault Mech have Range 2/80% Accuracy.
Assault Droid
- Add 1 First Strike. PAI and Assault Mech have 1 First Strike.
- Add 20% Intercept Aircraft. PAI and Assault Mech have 20% intercept.
- Change +25% City Strength to +10% City Attack. PAI and Assault Mech have +10% City Attack.
- Add Blitz promotion. PAI and Assault Mech start with Blitz.
Walker Droid
- Change +25% City Defense to +10% City Attack. Scout Mech has +10% City Attack.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Why?
Power Armored Infantry is actually the Space marines from W40k and Starcraft.
Those are hardly siege units, rather city defenders.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I wouldn't say that Marines are city defenders, rather assault units.Why?
Power Armored Infantry is actually the Space marines from W40k and Starcraft.
Those are hardly siege units, rather city defenders.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
45°38'N-13°47'E;14340534 said:I wouldn't say that Marines are city defenders, rather assault units.
Khmmm...
In Starcraft they don't have a long life as an attacker. But when put to a bunker they may serve better.
Anyway, I don't understand the collateral damage and the ranged strike
I'm characterizing Power Armored Infantry as the first "heavy mech" unit. Its collateral damage and ranged attack abilities are weaker versions of the abilities that the Assault Droid and Assault Mech have.
Mecha units also need to be differentiated from the Transhuman Era tank units, which have higher power and slightly better speed (in the early part of the Transhuman) but not the ranged attack and collateral damage of the mecha. On top of that, Mecha units are one of the few units that outright require a building to construct (the Mech Assembly Plant) and I think there should be something interesting for jumping through the hoop.
Bolter Infantry/EMP Infantry are supposed to be the city defense units of the Transhuman Era - they are the core units with no resource/building requirements. Mecha can hold ground (getting defensive bonuses), but with the extra gold cost per turn on all of them (this is currently missing from Scout Mech), I don't think they would be a good choice for city garrisons.
Mecha units also need to be differentiated from the Transhuman Era tank units, which have higher power and slightly better speed (in the early part of the Transhuman) but not the ranged attack and collateral damage of the mecha. On top of that, Mecha units are one of the few units that outright require a building to construct (the Mech Assembly Plant) and I think there should be something interesting for jumping through the hoop.
Bolter Infantry/EMP Infantry are supposed to be the city defense units of the Transhuman Era - they are the core units with no resource/building requirements. Mecha can hold ground (getting defensive bonuses), but with the extra gold cost per turn on all of them (this is currently missing from Scout Mech), I don't think they would be a good choice for city garrisons.
I prefer to think of PAI as Heinlein outlined it in Starship Troopers (the original book!): highly effective marauders performing hit and run attacks, able to be deployed quickly, do high damage, and get out before the enemy can react in force.
Then I think you want the Dropship. The PAI, as it is implemented, is a "first-generation" mecha unit that can be built with very-near-future technology; Automated Vehicles is in the first column of the Transhuman Era. So this unit is heavily armed but not the fastest (speed 2, compared to speed 3 for a lot of other Transhuman units), winding up somewhere between a tank and a siege unit.
What do you think about shifting Khmer and Siam over to the Indian art style?
I'm still looking to reduce the workload on the graphics engine a little by consolidating art styles and deleting a few artdefs that don't really have a place. I would prefer if most or all art styles covered 2-3 civilizations. Right now, we have the Babylon art style that covers 4 "cradle of civilization" empires (Assyria, Babylon, Hittite, Sumer); the African, Middle Eastern, and (to be changed) South American art styles that cover 3 civs each; and several styles (European, English, German, Native American) that cover 2. There are several styles that only apply to one civ, and these are the ones that I am focusing on.
In the Asian sphere, we have a generic Asian style that is used for Khmer, Korea, and Siam. We also have separate styles for China, Japan, Mongolia, and India. I am thinking it would work to switch Khmer and Siam over to the India style and then consolidate the remaining Asian styles a little. I would almost certainly want to get rid of the Mongol style; the only units it has distinctly defined are Archer, Javelineer, and Mounted Infantry.
Let me know what you think.
I'm still looking to reduce the workload on the graphics engine a little by consolidating art styles and deleting a few artdefs that don't really have a place. I would prefer if most or all art styles covered 2-3 civilizations. Right now, we have the Babylon art style that covers 4 "cradle of civilization" empires (Assyria, Babylon, Hittite, Sumer); the African, Middle Eastern, and (to be changed) South American art styles that cover 3 civs each; and several styles (European, English, German, Native American) that cover 2. There are several styles that only apply to one civ, and these are the ones that I am focusing on.
In the Asian sphere, we have a generic Asian style that is used for Khmer, Korea, and Siam. We also have separate styles for China, Japan, Mongolia, and India. I am thinking it would work to switch Khmer and Siam over to the India style and then consolidate the remaining Asian styles a little. I would almost certainly want to get rid of the Mongol style; the only units it has distinctly defined are Archer, Javelineer, and Mounted Infantry.
Let me know what you think.
I was just looking at the Chemical promotions, and I noticed that they are open to Biological Warfare units.
The only unit that can benefit from these promotions is the Biological Warfare Missile; the BBM and the Plague Bringer have combat strength 0 and are not eligible for promotions (they use the nuke mechanic instead).
The Chemical promotions are also the only promotions that a Biological Warfare Missile can take, and a choice with only one option isn't much of a choice. The purpose of the Chemical promotions is to increase the unit's strength against non-mechanical units and collateral damage. The Biological Warfare Missile has strength 40 (pretty low by Modern standards) and collateral damage 60% to 8 units, which I think is already fair enough for one missile without boosting it. Collateral damage is applied even if the unit dies. I think we should delete the Chemical promotions from the Biological Warfare units. Other units would still be eligible.
The only unit that can benefit from these promotions is the Biological Warfare Missile; the BBM and the Plague Bringer have combat strength 0 and are not eligible for promotions (they use the nuke mechanic instead).
The Chemical promotions are also the only promotions that a Biological Warfare Missile can take, and a choice with only one option isn't much of a choice. The purpose of the Chemical promotions is to increase the unit's strength against non-mechanical units and collateral damage. The Biological Warfare Missile has strength 40 (pretty low by Modern standards) and collateral damage 60% to 8 units, which I think is already fair enough for one missile without boosting it. Collateral damage is applied even if the unit dies. I think we should delete the Chemical promotions from the Biological Warfare units. Other units would still be eligible.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Sounds good to me but shouldn't we make biological missile stronger? It's supposed to be a dangerous weapon I think but right now I've built it only a couple of times.
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