Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

I have to change Omnifactory a little. It's miscalibrated. I discovered that because Omnifactory replaces Forge and Foundry, it loses 11 base hammers (5 from Foundry base, 3 from Forge with resources, 3 from Foundry with resources).

The buildings that Omnifactory replaces add up to +290% production (+10% Oil Refinery, +15% Forge, +50% Steel Mill, +50% Advanced Quality Control, +65% Factory, +100% Nanofactory) and Omnifactory is only +10% above that.

The problem is that those 11 hammers from Forge/Foundry can have a gigantic ripple effect. I have a late Transhuman game going where a city nets +700% production over its base hammers: it has +230% from buildings (Forge, Factory, Steel Mill, Industrial Park, Transporter, Utility Fog, Deep Core Mine); +205% from power (Factory, Oil Refinery, Steel Mill, Advanced Quality Control, Nanofactory); +135% from resources (Creative Constructions and Deep Core Mine); +15% from civics (Superhuman and Protectionism offsetting Federation and Liberal); +20% land unit production (Military Base); and +125% military unit production (Secret Army Base, Arsenal, Recruiting Center, Military Academy, Ultimate Soldiers being offset by Industrial Park, Federation and Volunteer Army). So even with Omnifactory at 300%, it would lose 100 hammers per turn by building one.

So to properly calibrate Omnifactory, I'm going to raise its production bonus to +350% and its commerce to +50%. It's still not a gigantic bonus for a city that already has most of the production buildings, but it can be a big bonus for a newer city, although you can't rush with Post-Scarcity.

This problem with absolute v. percentage modifiers is one thing I really dislike about AND. I'd prefer that all buildings within an upgrade chain use EITHER absolute modifiers or percentage modifiers, not this mish-mash which currently exists.

In my last playthrough, Casino was one of the few buildings I didn't build in every city, which is totally rare once I hit the endgame, all the AI civs are destroyed, and I'm just waiting to max out my score before I claim a Mercy Rule Mastery Victory. This tells me Casino needs some help. We looked at this before and I could not make the Employs 1 Citizen mechanic work on it.

I was thinking it would be a good idea to use the <PowerYieldModifiers> mechanic on Casino. This mechanic is currently used on certain Factory buildings that provide one level of bonus without Power and an additional bonus with Power. (If all the effects of a building require Power, we should just have the entire building require Power and be done with it.) While I'm not trying to be excessively demanding with infrastructure requirements (this is Civilization, not SimCity!), I do think a lot of Modern and Transhuman buildings should require Power or even a Computer Network to be buildable. For buildings in the Industrial Era, however, I think a split effect with some effects unpowered and better effects powered would work. The only building that currently uses <PowerYieldModifiers> for commerce only is the Design Studio, but because Design Studio requires a Computer Network, it should probably be a straight Power-requirement on the building.

I think +15% commerce with Power would be a good place to start. We could go higher if that is not enough.

I'm still looking for ways to link some of the many buildings we have in AND together. There are about 20 buildings that are "orphans" without connections to any other building. Many of them are early buildings that go obsolete. Adding connections makes buidlings seem less like a random hodge-podge and more like evolutionary paths.

I think there are a few ways we can add a connection to some of the currently unconnected buildings:

• Irrigation Canals: Upgrades to Hydroponic Farm and then Farmscraper. Since I changed Irrigation Canals to Requires Fresh Water instead of Requires River, I don't think there is a city that can't eventually build an IC (after Artesian Well), but I think this becomes less important once hydroponics are practiced on a large scale. Hydroponic Farm and Farmscraper would get +3 food to make up for absorbing Irrigation Canals.
• Skyscraper: Upgrades to Arcology. An Arcology is supposed to be a self-contained human habitat, so I think the Skyscraper would be absorbed into the Arcology. I am speculating that Arcology might be able to replace more buildings, but I'm not sure how far it should go. Arcology would simply add Skyscraper's bonuses. On a side note: I don't think National Shield should actually replace Arcology Shield. This cuts off the ability to build Arcology Shields in cities if you'd rather save the National Shield for a particular city.
• Radar Station: Add Requires Power. This isn't really a link, but it does require you to have some infrastructure in place before building the Radar Station. If you need cheap air defense, build a Bunker. After that, you need to do increasing amounts of work.
• Recycling Center: Upgrades to Matter Decompiler. Recycling Center isn't a true orphan, as it is required to build the Recycled Goods Factory. Still, I think the Matter Decompiler that can disassemble anything would be a good replacement for the Recycling Center. The MD would save you the RC's maintenance. The MD would inherit RC's +1 happiness, but not its health; MD cancels all unhealth from buildings, which is very likely to be more than RC's flat +3 health.
• Control Center: I think this should require Power and a Computer Network. High-tech buildings like this need some investment in a technological backbone before they are ready to go.
• Mind-Control Center: Like the Control Center, I think this should require Power and a Computer Network. This level of control doesn't come without an ability to be everywhere.

All sounds good. And yes, remove the link from National Shield and Arcology Shield.

I would like to move Security Bureau from Psychology to Computers. I think Security Bureau and Intelligence Agency are too close together and overlapping too much in concept space. (In BTS, Security Bureau is available at Democracy, which is late Renaissance.) Also, the Industrial Era has too many buildings right now and the Modern Era does not have enough. On a weighted average, the Industrial Era needs to drop 19 buildings and the Modern Era should add 14. We probably won't ever get there, but it's not a bad thing to try to even the counts out.

Here is a really interesting idea I had. Somehow, I skipped that Automated Defenses gives XP to Dreadnought and Mecha units. I don't want this to happen, so I think it needs a new ability.

I would like to have Automated Defenses be both a Turret and a No Entry building. Turrets are the buildings that deal random damage to adjacent enemies (Ballista, Cannon, Gun, Railgun). It is actually a 1-in-4 chance per turn to damage each particular unit. Railgun Turret is currently the highest damage-dealer at 30%; I think it might be interesting to have 40% and have this replace all other turrets. It would require that city attacking in the Transhuman Era be done very efficiently without spending a lot of time to reduce the defenses and overwhelm the defenders.

The other mechanic that I would like to use is the iNoEntryDefenseLevel that is currently being used on Castle Gatehouse and Labyrinth of Knossos. This way, without a bombardment unit, there is no way of attacking the city. Besides Siege units, Plasma Armor, Dreadnought Armor, and most Mechs can also bombard. I would like to set the no-entry level to 1% so you have to take down all the defenses before you attack. I can't set it all the way to 0%.

Vokarya said:

Here is a really interesting idea I had. Somehow, I skipped that Automated Defenses gives XP to Dreadnought and Mecha units. I don't want this to happen, so I think it needs a new ability.

I would like to have Automated Defenses be both a Turret and a No Entry building. Turrets are the buildings that deal random damage to adjacent enemies (Ballista, Cannon, Gun, Railgun). It is actually a 1-in-4 chance per turn to damage each particular unit. Railgun Turret is currently the highest damage-dealer at 30%; I think it might be interesting to have 40% and have this replace all other turrets. It would require that city attacking in the Transhuman Era be done very efficiently without spending a lot of time to reduce the defenses and overwhelm the defenders.

The other mechanic that I would like to use is the iNoEntryDefenseLevel that is currently being used on Castle Gatehouse and Labyrinth of Knossos. This way, without a bombardment unit, there is no way of attacking the city. Besides Siege units, Plasma Armor, Dreadnought Armor, and most Mechs can also bombard. I would like to set the no-entry level to 1% so you have to take down all the defenses before you attack. I can't set it all the way to 0%.

Click to expand...

I like these changes. The No-Entry mechanic was always a Medieval thing so it's interesting to see it show up in the futuristic ages.

One thing though, is that I've never seen the AI take the civics that allow Automated Defenses before, but then again I haven't reached the Transhuman in some time so maybe their preferences have changed since then.

Rezca said:

I like these changes. The No-Entry mechanic was always a Medieval thing so it's interesting to see it show up in the futuristic ages.

One thing though, is that I've never seen the AI take the civics that allow Automated Defenses before, but then again I haven't reached the Transhuman in some time so maybe their preferences have changed since then.

Click to expand...

The only civic that allows Automated Defenses is Unmanned Warfare. I did move the civic down to Machine Learning, so we might see AI's using it. The building itself does not show up until Artificial Intelligence.

I don't know if the AI knows enough to take advantage of this, but Unmanned Warfare does allow you to build the Warhead Factory and the big nuclear weapons without the relations penalty from other civs when you are MAD and they are not. So if you want to stay on good terms with other civs while still having the nuclear stick handy, Unmanned Warfare is the way to go.

Does anyone else think Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are not necessarily a good thing? I am noticing that in the end game, we have so much happiness and health that the numbers are ridiculous; over +100 health in a city is possible once Superhuman is achieved. While I will admit that in the Transhuman Era, happiness and health should be mostly solved problems, this is pushing what I think is good.

The only happiness per citizen buildings are the Arena line. The Zero-G Sports Arena provides 0.33 happiness per citizen. That is easily capable of producing +15 or more happiness, far more than any other building.

Health per citizen comes from three separate building lines: Aqueduct/Sewer System, Hospital, and Public Transportation. By the end game, Waste Digester, Regenerator, and Transporter add up to 0.8 health per citizen. The remaining health buildings and resources are more than enough to overcome any unhealth that isn't taken care of.

I think it would be better to go to flat +health and +happiness on most buildings instead of this multiplier system. The one exception is Welfare Office; I think this should be based on population, as it takes care of the bottom % of your people.

What do you think?

Vokarya said:

The only civic that allows Automated Defenses is Unmanned Warfare. I did move the civic down to Machine Learning, so we might see AI's using it. The building itself does not show up until Artificial Intelligence.

I don't know if the AI knows enough to take advantage of this, but Unmanned Warfare does allow you to build the Warhead Factory and the big nuclear weapons without the relations penalty from other civs when you are MAD and they are not. So if you want to stay on good terms with other civs while still having the nuclear stick handy, Unmanned Warfare is the way to go.

Click to expand...

I thought it was the other way around - if they're running MAD and you aren't, you get a diplo hit? That's how I think it went it anyway, like Protectionism and etc but in reverse: you run it but they dont, no penalty - they run it and you don't, there's a penalty.

It's been so long though I honestly can't remember clearly, but I could have sworn it was something like that.

Vokarya said:

Does anyone else think Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are not necessarily a good thing? I am noticing that in the end game, we have so much happiness and health that the numbers are ridiculous; over +100 health in a city is possible once Superhuman is achieved. While I will admit that in the Transhuman Era, happiness and health should be mostly solved problems, this is pushing what I think is good.

The only happiness per citizen buildings are the Arena line. The Zero-G Sports Arena provides 0.33 happiness per citizen. That is easily capable of producing +15 or more happiness, far more than any other building.

Health per citizen comes from three separate building lines: Aqueduct/Sewer System, Hospital, and Public Transportation. By the end game, Waste Digester, Regenerator, and Transporter add up to 0.8 health per citizen. The remaining health buildings and resources are more than enough to overcome any unhealth that isn't taken care of.

I think it would be better to go to flat +health and +happiness on most buildings instead of this multiplier system. The one exception is Welfare Office; I think this should be based on population, as it takes care of the bottom % of your people.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I'd say make them a flat bonus, or at the least trim some down and remove the others.

Vokarya said:

Does anyone else think Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are not necessarily a good thing? I am noticing that in the end game, we have so much happiness and health that the numbers are ridiculous; over +100 health in a city is possible once Superhuman is achieved. While I will admit that in the Transhuman Era, happiness and health should be mostly solved problems, this is pushing what I think is good. only happiness per citizen buildings are the Arena line. The Zero-G Sports Arena provides 0.33 happiness per citizen. That is easily capable of producing +15 or more happiness, far more than any other building.

Health per citizen comes from three separate building lines: Aqueduct/Sewer System, Hospital, and Public Transportation. By the end game, Waste Digester, Regenerator, and Transporter add up to 0.8 health per citizen. The remaining health buildings and resources are more than enough to overcome any unhealth that isn't taken care of.

I think it would be better to go to flat +health and +happiness on most buildings instead of this multiplier system. The one exception is Welfare Office; I think this should be based on population, as it takes care of the bottom % of your people.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

Makes sense.
Than Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are better used on some Wonders.

Vokarya said:

Does anyone else think Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are not necessarily a good thing? I am noticing that in the end game, we have so much happiness and health that the numbers are ridiculous; over +100 health in a city is possible once Superhuman is achieved. While I will admit that in the Transhuman Era, happiness and health should be mostly solved problems, this is pushing what I think is good.

The only happiness per citizen buildings are the Arena line. The Zero-G Sports Arena provides 0.33 happiness per citizen. That is easily capable of producing +15 or more happiness, far more than any other building.

Health per citizen comes from three separate building lines: Aqueduct/Sewer System, Hospital, and Public Transportation. By the end game, Waste Digester, Regenerator, and Transporter add up to 0.8 health per citizen. The remaining health buildings and resources are more than enough to overcome any unhealth that isn't taken care of.

I think it would be better to go to flat +health and +happiness on most buildings instead of this multiplier system. The one exception is Welfare Office; I think this should be based on population, as it takes care of the bottom % of your people.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I agree. Almost anything that makes the game more challenging is OK for me.

Rezca said:

I thought it was the other way around - if they're running MAD and you aren't, you get a diplo hit? That's how I think it went it anyway, like Protectionism and etc but in reverse: you run it but they dont, no penalty - they run it and you don't, there's a penalty.

It's been so long though I honestly can't remember clearly, but I could have sworn it was something like that.

Click to expand...

I think you're right. If they're not MAD and you are, you get the diplomacy penalty and they get the unhappiness penalty. So you still get a benefit from switching out of MAD.

I went through and recalibrated the health/happiness numbers for the Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen buildings. Here are the numbers I settled on

Water/Sewer Buildings:

• Aqueduct: +1 health
• Sewer System: +2 health
• Water Treatment Plant: +5 health (includes +1 for replacing Aqueduct and +1 for replacing Artesian Well)
• Waste Digester: +10 health (includes +5 for replacing Water Treatment Plant and +2 for replacing Sewer System)

Hospitals:

• Hospital: +5 health
• Regenerator: +7 health

Transportation:

• Public Transportation: +2 health
• Personal Rapid Train: +2 health (the upgrade bonus is +1 happiness)
• Transporter: +5 health (I'm a little unsure about this high, but it's absorbing all of PRT's +2/+1 from Oil/+2 from Green)

Arenas:

• Arena: +2 happiness
• Stadium: +5 happiness
• Zero-G Sports Arena: +8 happiness

Here are some screenshots from a very late game before and after I changed the numbers. I cut about 4-8 excess happiness and double-digit excess health off every city.
Health:
View attachment 410011View attachment 410013

Happiness:
View attachment 410012View attachment 410014

Also, if we want to trim excess happiness in the end-game, I think we should cut the +1 happy from Biofuel Refinery. This makes the Refinery only useful if you lack a source of Oil Products. It still works for me even then; it fits a general rule of "artificial substitutes start off difficult and then get easy" -- the alternative sources of Oil Products are the Japanese Shale Plant, which is determined mostly at the start of the game (either play Japan or play with Assimilation and conquer a Japanese city, if they are in the game); then Standard Ethanol, which is open to everyone but only one civilization can build it and requires spending a Great Scientist; then Biofuel Refinery, which comes only at the end of the Modern Era and only requires Corn or Potatoes or Sugar.

Have you ever seen AI build Biofuel Refinery? I think we have a problem with National Wonders limit. I've raised the subject before but since I'm currently running a lot of tests lately, I must say that AI isn't almost building any National Wonder after Industrial, probably because of the lack of slots. I think we should increase the slots under some circumstances; perhaps we could grant more slots after some industrial/modern era tech. Something like 2 more slots per city.

45°38'N-13°47'E;14359634 said:

Have you ever seen AI build Biofuel Refinery? I think we have a problem with National Wonders limit. I've raised the subject before but since I'm currently running a lot of tests lately, I must say that AI isn't almost building any National Wonder after Industrial, probably because of the lack of slots. I think we should increase the slots under some circumstances; perhaps we could grant more slots after some industrial/modern era tech. Something like 2 more slots per city.

Click to expand...

Maybe republic could also add some extra slots for the smaller civs?

Republic having extra slots is a great idea, but wouldn't that cause a problem, if they left republic??

Great idea, maybe just have them go inactive, in build order. Latest national builds go inactive when over limit.