Your favorite SECOND social policy?

reddishrecue said:

Piety as a second social policy could be a possibility to me when I'm not aiming for a cultural victory and when I'm not with enough technology for the commerce social policy tree.

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I've already tried that as well, the AIs got all three of the most desirable Reformation beliefs so that part didn't do much good. It sped up religious building construction but that's about it. There's more bonuses to be had in the other trees for that time in the game.

Browd said:

And have you ever gotten a GS or GE from the patronage finisher? I don't think any CSs are coded to provide those.

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I'm all but positive that I have gotten GSs from city states more than once, but when you ask like that, you do give me an inchling of doubt. I thought it was random which great person you got so never paid attention to which kind of city state offered me what. Is there anything in the source code which gives us information about what kind of great persons that should be linked to certain city state types?


As for the OP, I like to go Piety for second tree, but then I play with moderately modded policy trees, so I don't quite follow the paths of other players - I start with Liberty as often as Tradition (if not more, since I generally like playing wide), and I only occasionally take full Rationalism. Piety is good when playing wide because it helps you get religious buildings in larger numbers and the extra faith is also useful for GP purchase later in game. Plus if I forgo Tradition and/or Rationalism the reformation belief "To The Glory Of God" is a fantastic benefit (and AI never takes this belief, unlike Jesuit Education and Sacred Sites which is all but always gone by the time I get to Reformation if I go full Piety.

Opening Patronage and taking 1-2 policies in this tree is generally always worth it for me. Forbidden Palace is one of the best wonders imo. (again even more so if going wide) plus as others have said, city state allies never hurt.

If many cities are coastal, opening Exploration for the production bonus in coastal cities also can be worth it. Exploration opener isn't too great however, and the lower tree is also pretty awful in unmodded game, so finishing Exploration is generally only worth it for the hidden antiquity sites, which basically means paying for culture with culture.

Opening Commerce is generally not the most valuable choice imo. but on the other hand, more gold never hurts, so if you find yourself in a situation where you don't have any obvious picks, I think that's a safe filler. It's definitely better than Aesthetics opener and top tree which is downright awful imo., only reason I would ever go into Aesthetics is if I plan cultural victory and then I need to rush it.

Honor. It gives more CS influence than patronage opener, among other things.

Second policy or second tree?

I usually just fill straight tradition then start on patronage.

Peter Sagan said:

You sometimes get more than 7 GP from the Patronage finisher?

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I do. I realize many people don't play this way, but I usually run about thirty CS on a standard map and although I've never counted, I would guess that I receive 8-10 GP in a game. I blow through Patronage as quickly as I can to get the bonus started.

To answer Browd's question, I have received every type of great person from this, including unique GPs like the great general with five movement points (sorry, the name escapes me). I have noticed that there is some correlation between type of CS and the great person they will give you. Not surprisingly, a militaristic CS will most likely give you a GG, while a cultured one will tend toward a GWAM.

I really like this finisher, and the whole tree pays off. It's a good nickel-and-dime set of bonuses that help in most aspects of the game: science, money, happiness... But the finisher is definitely under-appreciated because of its passive and somewhat random effect. Try it and I guarantee you'll enjoy seeing the message, "Kuala Lampur has given you a new unit."

It's like Christmas. Well, it's actually like Chanukah, but who's counting?

It also depends on what civ your playing since they have their abilities to put into consideration along with which religion you go for.


for me, here is how I play:
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Civ: Brotherhood of Nod (Steam mod)(+1 Science for every land tile not including mountains)

Religion:Brotherhood of Nod (Steam mod Strange Religions) and try to see if i can find pantheons/beliefs focused solely on science (which there is plenty if you find the right mods)

so the trees I would follow is literally malleable to a scientific warlord (Honor, Liberty, Piety, Rationalism with some cases of gettong commerce depending how large my empire gets and if i possess any coastal tiles and exploration to help further my military capapbilities)

Well! If we're going to do that, then I agree with building tesla coils everywhere. Better than Great Wall.

I go for Exploration. However I play a lot of water maps and like the Maritime Infrastructure for additional hammers as my cities are generally all coastal.

tetley said:

Well! If we're going to do that, then I agree with building tesla coils everywhere. Better than Great Wall.

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If I knew how to code for Civ5 BNW, I would have had Obelisk Advanced Guard Towers replace forts in a heart beat only after getting laser tech

Piety : Useful for establishing faith dominance early on.

Liberty : Too weak, too late imho.

Honor : Lackluster except for 50% more xp or farming honor with raging barbarians.

Patronage : Mostly lackluster till you get enough CS in the end game.

Aesthetics : Not very impressive except for the 33% culture boost.

I usually go Liberty, then a few policies in Exploration, then Rationalism.

If you took Tradition, my order would still be the same.

Browd said:

By any chance, do you recall what type of CS gave that to you?....

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I'm afraid not, but I see your thinking. Perhaps certain types of CS give out certain types of GP. Maybe an experiment involving Poland or IGE?

Question's post is true but that is if it is left alone....mine is modded so it has a bit more umph at least, is yours modded or regular by chance?

Mostly regular.

I do Tradition Patronage Rationalism Ideology no matter what I play tbh. On very rare occasions I take Commerce over patronage but its very rare

Mic112 said:

I do Tradition Patronage Rationalism Ideology no matter what I play tbh. On very rare occasions I take Commerce over patronage but its very rare

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Isn't it kind of sad that in a game that offers so many different policy combinations, they are so poorly balanced that you end up taking the same combination no matter what type of game you play?

I don't think that's due to game balance, more a players choice.

If you are going for a culture win, maxing aesthetics means a win happens far sooner than if you didn't take it - buying great musicians with faith & popping futurism each time you generate them (as well as 33% faster GP generation), is cluth.

Rationalism is entirely unnecessary if you are playing for a culture win as such games are usually won long before people get into the info era.

I think its obvious that some policy branches are far better than others. Tradition is the best game opener, liberty's minor bonuses like +1 production per city just do not compare.

Commerce is unnecessary given how easy it is to make gold via trade routes without commerce. Exploration is mostly for the +1 naval movement/sight, i find that its really tough to get a lot of coastal cities to take advantage of exploration.

Honor is really lackluster except for the +50% experience buff. The opener doesnt even work past the early game where barbarians actually show up in numbers (unless you deliberately keep camps alive to farm culture), the other bonuses are really minor and gold is again, unimportant given trade routes.

Piety is really only useful when you are rushing to get the first religion as the first religion will almost always dominate their respective continent, at which point it becomes near impossible for any other religions to make an impact. By all means send in a force of 4 great prophets costing thousands of faith to try and convert some cities, the AI will proceed to mass spam infinite missionaries at a fraction of the cost, and he will never get tired of doing so.

The first two patronage policies are largely redundant given that you can just throw infinite gold at CS to make them your allies. The most important thing is the opener and the extra happiness IMHO.

Aesthetics is pretty weak because the buffs are unimpressive. A 25% bonus to cultural GPs sounds good, except that 2 specialist slots = very little GP generation in the first place. You are looking at like 1-2 extra points per turn. 50% of excess happiness is a drop in the bucket, assuming you get 100 happiness, thats only 50 more culture per turn...by which time you would have 1k+ culture from your cities. Free great artist is yawn (especially if you didnt manage to get theming wonders or any golden age extension buffs). Building cultural buildings faster? Who cares, gold lets you instant buy them.

For similar reasons i think freedom is generally the best ideology. The specialist buffs make a huge difference late game when you have lots of specialists and GP tile improvements can turn your capital into an uber city. Meanwhile order has minor bonuses per city and autocracy is mostly about happiness stacking + military buffs (which can still be powerful if you are going for a domination victory).

Question said:

For similar reasons i think freedom is generally the best ideology. The specialist buffs make a huge difference late game when you have lots of specialists and GP tile improvements can turn your capital into an uber city. Meanwhile order has minor bonuses per city and autocracy is mostly about happiness stacking + military buffs (which can still be powerful if you are going for a domination victory).

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Order does give +25%/city, and a lot of production from mines. Also reduces the cost of buildings substantially. Order also seems to help more when going wider. They are similar in power. Autocracy has some nice culture and domination buffs, but overall seems the weakest of the three.

Question said:

The first two patronage policies are largely redundant given that you can just throw infinite gold at CS to make them your allies. (...)

Aesthetics is pretty weak because the buffs are unimpressive.(...) Building cultural buildings faster? Who cares, gold lets you instant buy them.

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You must be better at making gold than I am.