Snoopy/Dale unofficial patch

IMHO a patch is a program that fixes bugs, just that. When you change things that are a matter of opinion you should give to your mod another name.

You think that treasure size is a bug. You think that warehouse overflow is a bug. How do you know that Dale? Maybe the makers of the game intended it that way. Do you think that Firaxis is a bunch of amatuers?

I'm not going through this again. The two bits were not programmed correctly.

BTW, you might want to view the credits to see just who was involved in development of the game. I claim that as my credentials to say whether a bug is a bug or not. :)
 
Originally Posted by PeaceGuy
IMHO a patch is a program that fixes bugs, just that. When you change things that are a matter of opinion you should give to your mod another name.

You think that treasure size is a bug. You think that warehouse overflow is a bug. How do you know that Dale? Maybe the makers of the game intended it that way. Do you think that Firaxis is a bunch of amatuers?

I'm not going through this again. The two bits were not programmed correctly.

BTW, you might want to view the credits to see just who was involved in development of the game. I claim that as my credentials to say whether a bug is a bug or not. :)

I for one think that Dale has done a verry good thing. And I think that he is right when it comes to the fixes he has done concerning the things he considerd bugs.
As I wrote before NO ONE HAS TO TRY Dales patch. If you try ut and doesn't like it YOU CAN'T balme Dale! Yo can ONLY blame your SELF.

I my self doesn't like the treausre fix but I don't complain about it. I remove it(Sorry Dale :blush:) and so can you do to instead of complaining to Dale about it.

I would lik eto see every one who have complained to do their own "bug-fix patch2 and see how good that "patch" is and how hard it is to make one.

Keep up the good work Dale!
 
Dale permit me to not care much about your credentials. I never said you are not a great programmer. What I said is that there are some things that are a matter of opinion about your patch. It's also funny that your "friend" Before the the dawn doesn't like your treasure size either :)

Do you need more evidence? Read the thread again.

Also, I am not complaining, I play the game plain vanilla. I just say, that your mod should have a different name.

Friendly suggestion: Rewrite your mod and be true to what you claim: Bugfixes only.
 
You did see the word unofficial in the title, right?
 
Dale permit me to not care much about your credentials. I never said you are not a great programmer. What I said is that there are some things that are a matter of opinion about your patch. It's also funny that your "friend" Before the the dawn doesn't like your treasure size either :)

Do you need more evidence? Read the thread again.

Also, I am not complaining, I play the game plain vanilla. I just say, that your mod should have a different name.

Friendly suggestion: Rewrite your mod and be true to what you claim: Bugfixes only.

Okay so here's my "opinion" on the three points you bring up of unit cargo bay size, F1 access during diplomacy and warehouse expansion overflow:

A. Regardless of whether thinking in terms of weight or size, when a unit requires a specific size ship for transport it should take up that size transport ship. If you add more weight or more size then that transport ship will sink. If a ship required a caravel to transport, it wouldn't ask for a galleon. That's basic logic. This is aside from the FACT that the programming link between the unit and the XML tag in Civ4UnitInfos.xml was BROKEN.

B. F1 access during diplomacy was blocked purely to stop an exploit which rendered tax parties bunk. Tax parties are a core component of the game and by moving goods away from the city via the F1 advisor whilst the tax party diplomacy window was open is a plain and simple exploit that renders the concept BROKEN.

C. Warehouse expansion overflow is TRADE. Trading is a core concept of the game. Every single instance of trade triggers certain in-game counters (eg: totalTrade) EXCEPT warehouse expansion overflow. It is possible to avoid tax and commodity price changes by using this exploit. Warehouse expansion overflow trade counters are MISSING.

Now let's look at your opinion:

A. You believe that it is possible to suspend all laws of physics and allow more mass or weight in a static sized container than physically allowed. Newton is rolling in his grave!

B. You believe it is your right to cheat by avoiding loss of goods during a tax party.

C. You believe you should be able to cheat basic economic principles of supply and demand, and taxation by utilising a flaw in the game bigger than the original Colonization's custom house bug. Adam Smith is also rolling in his grave!

So all up I have the opinion you're a dirty little cheater. ;)

Tell me where I'm wrong. :)
 
Dale, how much time have you spent programming this patch vs. posting on here to defend the changes you've made?
I demand that you not only answer my question, but also make me a pie chart and include, in Excel format, the full breakdown of contributing data, complete with dates and times.
 
Actually this patch is an offshoot of PatchMod, so little time programming and lots of time explaining the bugs. Though I really don't mind illuminating the less intelligent, it's one of my 'things for society'. :D

And NO PIE FOR YOU! :p
 
It's also funny that your "friend" Before the the dawn doesn't like your treasure size either :)
Wow! I'm Dales Friend :)
PeaceGuy I Don't know dale at all. Ive read som of his posts and have had tremedeuos use of his patches/bug fixes and so on.
Sure I don't like the treasure thing but I don't complain about it and I don't want Dale to remove it. I can remove it my self. I should probalbly not do that since it is Dales work and not mine, but I don't re-post any edited files that dale has made and I don't post code changes that I made since it in my opinion violates Dales "artisitic rights".

I think taht every body should be greatful to dale since he's one of few that does this kinds of "fixes" that pushes the game forward and makes it nmor playable. Most of the modders ads a nation or changes a unit or LH or makes a map but does not fix broken things in the game. With dis I meen no disrespect to the other modders since they do a marvelous job them to. But makeing bugfixes and balance fixes ar much harder then makeing an new nation..
But That is my Opinion...
 
Hurray for friendship. Long live pie :snowlaugh:
Bad kids like PeaceGuy will get :splat: for xmas.
 
Note to self for future needed bug-fixes:

1. Trade deals (Native or other Euro's) don't increment player or game changeYieldTradedTotal counters (same bug that was affecting warehouse expansion sales)
2. During trade deals "Native Happiness" is calculated off capacity of one berth of the transport (eg: 100 by default), not the actual amount traded when buying goods from natives.

Both bugs in CvDeal::startTrade

These bugs were found whilst implementing Economic victory in AoD2.
 
I installed this Mod and enjoyed it but when playing in German I noticed that some translations are missing. Attached are the modified xml files. The translations are based on 1.07.

EDIT: replaced the zip due to a missing semicolon :blush:
 

Attachments

  • col-ger.zip
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Okay so here's my opinion on the three points you bring up of unit cargo bay size, F1 access during diplomacy and warehouse expansion overflow:

A. Regardless of whether thinking in terms of weight or size, when a unit requires a specific size ship for transport it should take up that size transport ship. If you add more weight or more size then that transport ship will sink. If a ship required a caravel to transport, it wouldn't ask for a galleon. That's basic logic.


Ehhhh, so we should assume that if a galleon can transport, say a 3000 gold treasure unit, it can transport several units which sum up to 3000 gold pieces; as it is a matter of physics.
Mnmnmnmn!! I believe this treasure-galleon issue functions as intended for sure. Different to COl I.
On a side note, imagine the disproportionate impact of making one trip for each treasure between the different game speeds (fast - Marathon: not sure it keeps balance at all in here).


B. F1 access during diplomacy was blocked purely to stop an exploit which rendered tax parties bunk. Tax parties are a core component of the game and by moving goods away from the city via the F1 advisor whilst the tax party diplomacy window was open is a plain and simple exploit that renders the concept BROKEN.

Though I have to admit this was an absolute exploit at first for me, I'm not quite on the same side of the river now. Suppose we play with this patched, still we can make sure not to have large stocks hoarded of some few items we know could be boycotted by the king, of course provided we have the extra storage in terms of ships or wagon trains (secondary storage lets call it) in the presumably target cities (same storage we necessarily need to run the exploit). So, as this is a game hugely about storage, capacity and logistics, it is fair to assume that accessing cities while in diplomacy screen just saves us from a very annoying every turn micromanagement. Still, in any of both ways we need to secure every turn secondary storage to keep the possible party at minimum loss.
Ok, true.. anyone can argue this game is also about micro, but it is a different kind of micro it aims at. With this "exploit" patched I frankly believe every good/concerned player will surely not leave 300 muskets in the warehouse unless it is already a boycotted tradegood.


C. Warehouse expansion overflow is TRADE. Trading is a core concept of the game. Every single instance of trade triggers certain in-game counters (eg: totalTrade) EXCEPT warehouse expansion overflow.

I fail to understand Dale why this exception distresses you so much!! Hope it doesn't keep you from moving your bowel.

It is possible to avoid tax and commodity price changes by using this exploit. Warehouse expansion overflow trade counters are MISSING.

I believe there is quite some literature already about this matter for us to repeat it all here:

Does it avoid taxes? No. But it does avoid King's awareness of you trading with Europe, thus making him not to raise further your tax. This way you can keep King's tax indeed in zero without a single boycott (must not even buy any commoditty from Europe either). Though this latter is a horrible game strategy, hardly plausible in a high difficulty (still the game is very easy I agree, specially due to bad AI's, King and other colonies other than natives).

Does it avoid commodity price changes? Can't say for sure. I'm a conservative guy when giving a straight answer. I have to say that I did experienced price falls of certain commodities that I exclusively traded via the warehouse expansion. I don't know if other countries/colonies trading the same to Europe might affect the overall price, or if there are random changes even when there is massive trading being done.
 
Hi Ricci,

If you don't like the berth size fix, then feel free to edit one single line of XML in Civ4UnitInfos.xml to change it back.

If you don't like the warehouse expansion trade fix, then feel free to edit one single line of XML in Civ4BuildingInfos.xml to change it back.

The accessing F1 advisor during diplomacy is a pure cheat and totally against the spirit of the game.

End of discussion. :)
 
Hi Ricci,

If you don't like the berth size fix, then feel free to edit one single line of XML in Civ4UnitInfos.xml to change it back.

If you don't like the warehouse expansion trade fix, then feel free to edit one single line of XML in Civ4BuildingInfos.xml to change it back.

The accessing F1 advisor during diplomacy is a pure cheat and totally against the spirit of the game.

End of discussion. :)

Hi, there is no discussion as you hardly ever really discuss anything Dale.
Let me say though, I am not trying to tell you how to build your mods/patches, just making an opinion and trying to generate debate out of it.
I am truly glad there are people that, as you do, take the time and the commitment to try and fix/better up the games recoding in a way not everybody can or take the time to do.
By the way, despite what I wrote above I feel the fix over the diplomacy screen is good, we have to take the time and chances and micromanage the goods of possible boycotts, if we want to minimize party loses.
 
Well there's not really anything TO discuss Ricci. There are people that say those two items are bugs, there are people who say those two items aren't bugs.

The discussion has been done to death on these two items over the last 7 pages. In the last version I provided the means to turn these changes off, thus reverting these two items to how they are in vanilla. There's is nothing more that will be done on these two items, and no further discussion needed as it's done to death and I've given you easy means via XML to turn them off.

It's NOT that I won't discuss it, my view is plainly obvious in the last seven pages. There's just no point in flogging a dead horse. I still feel exactly the same way as I did on page one! :)
 
About the use of F1 key: Embargoes are devastating already and I see no point in making them a little more devastating.

About the warehouse overflow I think that selling at 50% of comodity's value is more than enough.

About treasure size: Treasures are there to give you a way to start building your economy. If it's one treasure per galleon and you find several in a far away land you will need the whole game to carry them to Europe. You may as well leave them there.

About Dale calling me a dirty cheater without even knowing me what I have to say is that his arguments remind me of some fanatical followers of a religion who can't accept an opinion different than theirs.

The core of my disagreement is not that he took away some features I want to use. For the record I never used the F1 key for the simple reason that I accept all tax increases. As the game is now the hit is too great to refuse. From what I have read here, most players refuse tax increases in only one game, their first one. One thing the game needs badly is a way so that refusing tax increases will actually be an option.

Anyway the core of my dissagreement is this:

I consider it very lame to make a mod in which you deal with some bugs, advertise it as bugfixes only and then move the game to the direction that you want.
 
Anyway the core of my dissagreement is this:

I consider it very lame to make a mod in which you deal with some bugs, advertise it as bugfixes only and then move the game to the direction that you want.

If you read the code the errors stand out plain as day. And that's the bottom line. The code is wrong, I fixed it. If you don't like the result, then it's an issue with the design you have. Not with me. :)

You might also note that in my own mod AoD2 my disagreement with the size of treasure is noted as I allow 3 to be shipped in a galleon.

So note that I'm true to the "bug-fix" concept of this patch so much I implemented bug-fixes even I disagree with. :mad:
 
I just want to throw my 2 cents in here. Because I was a veteran Colonization player (on Amiga :lol:) and because Civ4Colonization was claimed to be the reimplementation of the original game ...

A. one treasue, one galleon - this was the behaviour in Colonization1994 and also in FreeCol. 6 treasures in one ship gives a too big boost to the players economy.

B. Tea parties were always launched by throwing a full load of goods into the sea. If there is a backdoor to avoid it - it should be closed.

C. Warehouse expansion overflow: I am not quiet sure about this and how this trade should be interpreted. Are the surplus goods are sold to other nations? If they are sold to your king - count them; if not - hmmm...
 
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