pre-TNESIV: Let The Bodies Hit The Four

I'm sure most of you know what this is about, since I've been hyping it relentlessly.

This is an alternate history of my own design, taking place around 1630 AD. The goal is to make a mildly plausible but interestingly different NES that shakes up the same old tired nation concepts while still keeping some cultural ideas familiar to us all. There will be Prestige! There will be Factions! There will be a Winner! Assuming I can update that far, lol.

I have included a labeled map of my most recent draft here!



Looks good, doesn't it? Yeah, you know it does.

Here's how applications are going to work. I don't care about your player reputation or your resume or anything like that. Pick as many, or as few, nations as you like, and give me a brief 50-100 word synopsis of why you want to play this nation. Don't necessarily tell me your super-sekret spoiler alert plans; just give me a general idea that you understand this country's potential place in history.

Sell me on the idea that this nation could be right for you, quickly, and concisely.

I still have to do a few areas in Southeast Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas, of course. If you want to wait for the full map, that's perfectly fine. This is pretty much for my benefit so that I make sure every region of the world is staffed with quality players.

It also gives me a place to concentrate all my TL stuff, worldbuilding, and the framework of factions and stats as I continue to develop this thing towards a mid to late February launch date. Applications for nations will basically be accepted on a rolling basis, allowing people who didn't get their first pick to filter back into the pool as new nations pop up in America and elsewhere. I'll update the player roster and stuff as I approve people.

Let's get this ball rolling.

Note: I'm simultaneously running this NES on CFC and the Frontier. I'll try to duplicate updates and major posts on both sites, but it would probably be good for people to check both.

Descriptions:

Middle East and India
Religion in Europe
More Religion in Europe
North Africa
Russia, Central and East Asia

Religion Map

To-Do List:

1. Finish East Asia
2. SEA and Americas (mostly)
3. Simulate the Rains, Down in Africaaaaaa
4. Nation Descriptions
5. TL Outline
6. Factions, Stats, Etc.

Player Roster So Far:

North King - Knights of Our Lady of Alexandria
mrrandomplayer - The Pueblo Tribes
Azale - The Empire of the Hesperides
bombshoo - Beni Asafu
Cadellon - Kingdom of Albia-Norway
Immaculate - Emirate of al-Andalus
Shadowbound - Kingdom of Normandie
OwenGlyndwr - Kingdom of Aquitaine
Chief_Designer - League of Münster
angst - Kingdom of Denmark
Communisto - Most Serene Republic of Genoa
TMG - Principality of Rome [Florentine System]
Civ'ved - Grand Duchy of Pomerania
Grandkhan - Frankish Empire
Tolni - Kingdom of Moravia and Pannonia
Arrow Gamer - Roman Empire (Serbia)
Mosher - Empire of Lithuania
Thomas - Roman Empire (Constantinople)
bombshoo - Beni Asafu
Nuka - Kel Tinariwen
Robert Can't - Kingdom of Ægypt
DC - Patriarchate of Coptos
spryllino - Alshamid Qadirate
Abaddon - The Emirate of Aden
Bair - Great Khanate of the Magyars
Anonymoose - Great Knyazate of Vladimir
bestshot - Kuzakh Hetmanate
Lord of Elves - Dominions of the Kanishah
Polyblank - Ertukid Sultanate
Southern King - Sri Nevayana
Christos - Kingdom of Nanjur
Johanna - Zhung Dynasty
Luckymoose - Nan Song Dynasty
Decamper - Nihon-teikoku

Go ahead and post!

Same as my post on The Frontier:

Waiting on whatever happens with Japan/Korea (very want) or SEA (want a bit less). Or, if all else fails, the Americas (whatever want).

Florentine System
I want to play as the guiding power behind the Florentine System in order to explore this alternate dynamic in the Italian peninsula and also because I want to use this as a chance to research more about Italy in our timeline, as I want to see what happened and what could happen given these alternate circumstances. I also like the position that the Florentine System is in, and would like to see what I am capable in doing with it.

League of Munster
For the sole reason that I believe it opens up many chances of exploring options, especially considering that it is in competition with other trading powers regarding the economical supermacy.

Dominions of the Kanishah
Simply because I love the Middle East and because I want to see if I am capable of averting their current crisis. It will be a most interesting game to see if I can get all three titles they claim

Ertukid Sultanate
An Indo - Turkish sultanate? Are you kidding me? Who wouldn't want to play as that?

Anadoliin
As I said, I love anything related to the Middle East and Islam in general, and Anadoliin is something that strikes me as peculiar and interesting at the same time, seeing how they are mostly Mongols and have to face both a Mongol Empire and the Genoans.

There is a good chance I give no poops about any of these once some shapely polity plops itself down in the western hemisphere and starts whispering sweet nothings in my ear.

But for now...

Zhung Dynasty: China is fun to RP and a poor, multiethnic, probably doomed northern china is even more fun!

Alshamid Khanate: I think I could fudge/rp the reformist Islamic angle pretty ok. I really love its position astride the Mongol world and the crumbling crusader world.

Normandie: Part of the mezcla of European politics, has a foot in England, potential for colonies. Writing potential.

Ambrosian System: Actually the name of my next album, would be good for cross promotion.

Toledo: I like the idea of being a papal crony. This seems a spot where I would get reckt, which is pretty liberating in a way.

Pskov: ????? ?????

As with my frontier post I'm looking at Genoa. There's a lot of potential in this timeline to have fun in Italy.

The Republic of Pskov is, very technically, a member of the Grand Knyazate, and the Grand Prince and other representatives are known to appear at the Great Knyaz when summoned by the Grand Prince (or Vasily) of Vladimir. However Pskov tends to pursue a somewhat independent foreign policy, mostly involving trade practices monopolizing the fur trade. However Pskov has gone into a sustained decline as Danish power waxes and the elective Principality is monopolized by ever fewer families of burgesses. Increasingly reliant on Vladimir for military support.

The Great Knyazate of Vladimir is technically the meeting point for the Rus, or Ruthenian peoples, rather than the name of its rulers, though this is something of a point of disagreement. The hereditary Vasily of Vladimir holds great power, but this is balanced by the popular assemblies, the free kuzakhs, the kulaks, and the representatives of the church and tradesmen. Vladimir has a written constitution (incredibly confusing) codifying the interplay between these groups. Vladimir emerged from the Mongol era intact thanks to an alliance with the Magyars, but that has gone sour. Dreams of centralization and expanding into Siberia have also been put on hold by a great rebellion of the eastern kuzakhs.

The Kuzakh Hetmanate A mysterious, warlike people of Central Asian origin, the Kuzakhs rose to prominence in Russia as their tribes were given grants of land and power by the Grand Princes in return for military assistance. This mutual relationship lasted for some time, and the balancing of interests allowed the Kuzakhs to help Vladimir war against Lithuania, intimidate Pskov, and expand eastwards.

In recent years however, the many kuzakh hosts have soured on the Grand Prince's attempts to centralize control, and when he assigned himself the Roman imperial title of Vasily and attempted to curtail the privileges of the tribes, about two thirds of them revolted. They have since carved out a confederacy in Central Asia, and have proved extremely troublesome to all of their neighbors, given their unpredictability and tendency to raid.

The Zhung Dynasty is mostly of Moghul origin. Zhungai rose to prominence as elite soldiers of the Mongol Khans in their many long wars with the Song. Following the collapse of the Song and the occupation of Central China, they formed a rentier elite, ruling various governorates.

After the great rise of the Nan Song rebellion, the Zhungai were expelled from China, and licked their wounds in the Tarim Basin. Forming an alliance with Tukai, Uyghur and other peoples, they re-invaded the Song, who suffered from their perennial problems of controlling north China against Xho raiders. Inner Mongolia and Shandong were successfully conquered, and since then the Zhung have played a tricky balancing game, importing Han advisors and legalizing Buddhism (the elite being Muslim) in order to maintain control over their diverse empire.

Xhoson is a hybrid state, formed of conquest three hundred years prior. Following the Mongol defeat of the Turkish Gu dynasty, an assortment of Jurchen and Turkic peoples were forced into what we know as Manchuria. A civil war in neighboring Choson allowed these people, who would come to be known as Xho, to invade the peninsula and conquer it. They partially assimilated to local customs, forming military colonies mostly along the Yalu. To this day however, the Sillan remnants of southern Xhoson have simmered in religious and cultural resentment against their Muslim overlords.

This resulted in many of the southern captaincies defecting to Nihon during the great Buddhist holy war of 1613, a war which almost overthrew the Xhoson entirely.

Nihon-teikoku is the holy empire of the Rising Sun, guided by the Council of the Great Gurus. The importation of the Nevayana vehicle in the 13th century led to a series of popular uprisings, joined by many among the lower samurai class but primarily led by the commoners and the great Shinto-Buddhist temples. The great daimyo did not succumb easily to this onslaught, but the famous departure of the Emperor from seclusion to force a compromise between the warring parties resulted in the formation of Japan's modern theocracy.

As a result, Japan stratified into a caste system by the mid 15th century, with temple priests governing, the warrior aristocracy occupying a subservient position, and the commoners mostly siding with the temples but still rather hopelessly oppressed. The famous civil wars between various schools proceeded for about a century, resulting in the eventual extermination of nature worship adherents in favor of more clearly codified pantheon of boddhi.

Finally unified internally, Nihon turned itself to outward expansion, repeatedly attacking Silla in recent years and even raiding the Muslim Zhung by sea.

The Nan Song Dynasty is the axis around which the rest of the region turns. Nevayana-inspired rebellions against the Mongol conquest of central China in the 13th century did not succeed, but under the long Mongolian dominion, a new class of scientific thought flourished, encouraged by the "rediscovery" of the early Indian scientific treatises and a second renaissance of Buddhism in southern China.

Chinese scholars like Sin-Feng published "The Orderly Principles of Heaven," a groundbreaking treatise on chemical and physical laws, followed by "A Redirection of the Thoughts of the Master" which ultimately criticized and denied several major Confucianist/Legalist teachings, though not the life of Confucius himself. (For this, Sin-Feng was ultimately executed, but Sinfengian notions of gravitation, calculus, and elemental chemistry would ultimately spark a revolution in thought all across Eurasia after his death) The pursuit and study of scientific experimentation became a new ideal among the landed nobility of China, perhaps due to being locked out of higher politics by Mongol nobility.

Experimentation led to the development of superior gunpowder technology and more efficient sailing ship designs, causing Southern China to leap ahead of its counterparts in technological advancement. When it came time for Southern China to finally rebel against the Mongols, their light cavalry were decisively outclassed by the new mixed formations of levied matchlock gunners and spearmen. The Nan Song were unable to maintain control of the ancient T'ang dominion however, due to the changing ethno-religious makeup of Northern China, which defected to the Zhung confederacy.

The Nanjur Kingdom is a derivative of Tukai tribes who invaded Western and Central China in the 11th century. They worship a very unique and syncretic Sufist Muslim faith with elements of Tantric Buddhism. Long ago, the Tukai became federated allies of the Song, and managed to delay the Mongol conquest of Southern China by at least a decade. Following that, the Mongols repeatedly campaigned into Yuna, trying to quell Tukai resistance, but never gained full control of the restive region. In more recent times, Nanjur has attempted to extract tribute from both Nan Song and Zhung while acting as a balancing force preventing either dynasty from gaining supreme power.

The Great Khanate of the Magyars [Magyar Nagykánság]
Magyar culture and language is superbly interesting to me. In addition, I'd love to explore a state connecting east and west chock full of all sorts of interesting peoples and exonyms. Even if I fail spectacularly in keeping this cobbled empire together, I will for sure devote a substantial amount of effort to make it a graceful, unique fall with Bulgars, Vlachs, Mongols, and of course Magyars flying everywhere. On the other hand, the Magyar Khanate will probably have great potential to be a key, strong regional power, and one which I am heavily interested in and whose culture I am heavily invested in at that.

"Show me a man in the whole city of Rome who welcomed you as Pope without having his price, or hoping to get it. Even when they profess to be your very humble servants, they aim at being your masters. They pledge their fidelity only that they may more conveniently injure the confiding. Hence it is that there can be no deliberation from which they think they ought to be excluded; there will be no secret into which they do not worm their way. If the doorkeeper keeps one of them waiting a minute or two, I should not like to be in his shoes."

- Bernard of Clairvaux, 1152

I am putting claim to the most esteemed condominium of the Principality of Latium & Republic of Rome. A fractious country filled with competing ambitions, civil strife and a riotous popolo.

It's magnanimous leaders:

Theophylact III - Prince of the Romans and Count of Tusculum

Alessandro Basile (& his council of Senators) - Consul and Patrician of Rome

Pietro de Savelli (& his Prefect, Signore Guido Caetani) - His Holy Excellency the Metropolitan, Archbishop of Rome

I would like to put my humble self forward either for:

The Roman Empire: I believe that this decaying state with delusions of grandeur and a memory of a storied past will lead to interesting story telling.

or

Albia: I always have a soft spot for Northern Europe/british Isles. I promise to lead them to interesting times.

I'm going to go and confirm TMG as playing the Principality of Rome. For the record, the Principality of Rome (not to be confused with the Roman Empire in Constantinople, or the Roman Empire in Serbia) is a lesser member of the Florentine System. So whoever ends up playing Florence will have TMG as a vassal.

Also, I'm going to give the Magyars to Bair, because he used an endonym which is pretty great, and clearly knows his stuff. And I'm going to give the Roman Empire (the Greek one) to thomas. He's already made a convincing case he'll write well in that area.

I'm not going to touch this Nan Song issue until people choose alternates.

Also, link to a religion map posted on the Frontier: Religion Map

I have updated the player roster. The following countries are considered taken so far.

angst - Kingdom of Denmark
Shadowbound - Kingdom of Normandie
Communisto - Most Serene Republic of Genoa
TMG - Principality of Rome [Florentine System]
Tolni - The Kingdom of Moravia & Pannonia
Thomas - Roman Empire (Constantinople)
Bair - Great Khanate of the Magyars
Polyblank - Ertukid Sultanate
SK - Sri Nevayana
Luckymoose - Nan Song Dynasty

Polyblank, I'm interested in giving you Florence, the Ertukids or Anadoliin, so pick whichever one you prefer. Florence would have you working with TMG, but I think that would be rather fun. Still, all three of those spots need a solid player.

Well. Hello there. I am a newcomer to NES. Please don't kill me. Also, a very, very gullible person, which means that my stay here will end rather quickly, considering the position I'll choose. Oh, the humanity.

Anyway. I'd like to claim Moravia. It's hedged between mighty nations, that desire it's rich territories. I hope that I could live (rule?) as a relatively peaceful nation. It's religion is shared solely by the mighty Frankish Empire, but the rest of the heathens aren't friendly. Or are they? Who knows. And even in the home front, trouble is brewing, as hard-liners uphold their old religion, agents spread other religions to folks. But today, Moravia stands still.

Will that do?

Thayli, upon considering the options, I feel as the Ertukids are the most interesting out of the three since they combine most of the elements I like.

Tolni said:

Well. Hello there. I am a newcomer to NES. Please don't kill me. Also, a very, very gullible person, which means that my stay here will end rather quickly, considering the position I'll choose. Oh, the humanity.

Anyway. I'd like to claim Moravia. It's hedged between mighty nations, that desire it's rich territories. I hope that I could live (rule?) as a relatively peaceful nation. It's religion is shared solely by the mighty Frankish Empire, but the rest of the heathens aren't friendly. Or are they? Who knows. And even in the home front, trouble is brewing, as hard-liners uphold their old religion, agents spread other religions to folks. But today, Moravia stands still.

Will that do?

Click to expand...

You're fairly well spoken and I don't think anyone else will want Moravia, so consider it yours. Though you should learn the difference between it's (a contraction of it is) and its (a possessive), see "it's hot outside" vs. "its religion", "its government" etc.

Moravia's accession to the Imperial Church is mostly a function of it wanting to stay on the good side of the Empire and gain its protection from those aforementioned rapacious invaders, as you seem to have noticed.

Welcome to NESing! Come for the geopolitics, stay for the grammar lessons.

Polyblank said:

Thayli, upon considering the options, I feel as the Ertukids are the most interesting out of the three since they combine most of the elements I like.

Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.

Thlayli said:

You're fairly well spoken and I don't think anyone else will want Moravia, so consider it yours. Though you should learn the difference between it's (a contraction of it is) and its (a possessive), see "it's hot outside" vs. "its religion", "its government" etc.

Moravia's accession to the Imperial Church is mostly a function of it wanting to stay on the good side of the Empire and gain its protection from those aforementioned rapacious invaders, as you seem to have noticed.

Welcome to NESing! Come for the geopolitics, stay for the grammar lessons.

Click to expand...

Thanks! As it's quite clear, English isn't my first language. Hopefully, this being my first NES, that won't get me into trouble.

I sincerely doubt it. Welcome aboard.

Nihon-teikoku I already love the internal situation here. Even if Japan is already a unified state here, there's a lot to play with between the Emperor apparently taking a more active role, the ruling gurus, the lower aristocrats and samurai and the ever present toiling presents. Given that the state is a full on theocracy, I feel like I could give the Emperor himself a bit more to do, though still remaining a symbolic position. I plan to make Nihon-teikoku an aggressive force, but also much more open to the outside world, either absorbing through military contact or through trade. In particular, I want this version of Japan to be more open to China than OTL, while also feeling a growing tension as it tries to posit itself as the new centre of asia. My long sighted goal, mostly just because I find it neat than anything else, is to have Nihon-teikoku eventually turn its eyes east.

My knowledge of Japanese history isn't as deep as I wish it was, limited only to a couple uni courses and whatever I've gained from wikis/books/games on my own time. I do have a bit of grasp of the language and culture, though that's modern, so I'd have to extrapolate whatever I think I know into this timeline.

I'll have a secondary pick once the Americas get plotted out.

You will come to understand the stark beauty of black figures running across the moonlit snow.

Nihon-teikoku confirmed.

I'm interested and hope I can play some nation in the Americas or perhaps deep in Africa so I'll be waiting for those. I think there's going to be interesting possibilities for stories regarding colonisation.