Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Bombers are weak, in Diety mode at least. Half the time they get shot down, the rest of the time, they'll only take off 2 HP tabs, only rarely lethal. I can have a stack of 10 bombers and would be lucky if I kill one full health mech. inf. I have only found use for them after nuking a city, and getting rid of the remaining mech. infs.

Since I am playing in a huge map, with my weakest opponent having 27 cities and my strongest about 80, I can't afford 10 plus bombers per city, especially as I only have 10 or 11 productive cities due to feudalism. However I have tuned up 3 or 4 of my cities to produce 150 shields a turn, and therefore 3 or 4 nukes per 2 turns. The rest of the productive cities produce modern armour.
 
At deity and above nukes can an efficient military means. Doublenuke a target and it is finished. Using conventional armies and conventional artillary has the great advantage of leaving infrastructure unharmed. The much greater investment in terms of shields leaves this advantage. As by that time shields are available in some abundance it is great alternative to nukes.

greatmindsthink said:
especially as I only have 10 or 11 productive cities due to feudalism.
Click to expand...

By that time you should have about 40 productive cities even in feudalism. But using feudalism by that time is a major mistake anyway. If for some weird reason you enter feudalism make sure leaving it is the first thing you do in the industrial age when communism becomes available. Even steam engines are often less important that that.
 
Atishay Jain said:
I think I read here Having troops inside enemy territory before declaring war has the same effect as RoP backstabbing which would apply in this case.
Click to expand...

It's possible to declare war? I always just start the war. There must be an option in the diplomacy dialogue box that I have been ignoring. I had no idea I was damaging my rep by not using it. Thanks for this info.
 
walletta said:
It's possible to declare war? I always just start the war. There must be an option in the diplomacy dialogue box that I have been ignoring. I had no idea I was damaging my rep by not using it. Thanks for this info.
Click to expand...
The option is there. When you click on "Diplomacy," there's an option that says, "That's it! Prepare for WAR!"
 
walletta said:
It's possible to declare war? I always just start the war. There must be an option in the diplomacy dialogue box that I have been ignoring.
Click to expand...
As well as the straight 'Prepare for war!' option (and assuming you're not playing an AW-variant!), you can also declare war by 'renegotiating' an existing PT with your target which has passed its 20T-limit, i.e. it's got a '(--)' by it in your 'Active Trades' box. Click on 'Peace Treaty': your foreign advisor will put on his scared face, tell him yes to renegotiation, and then make an outrageous demand of your target (e.g. "Give me all your gold and techs, or else!").

From what I've seen, even if you're stronger, the AI-leader will almost always refuse your fair offer, and then you can go to war with a clear(er) conscience ("Well, I gave him a chance to capitulate -- this war is therefore all his fault!") ;) And if you've made sure that any other ongoing 'per-turn' deal with that AI has also already expired, then your DoW won't even break your trade-rep with everyone else.
I had no idea I was damaging my rep by not using it.
Click to expand...
Yup, if you simply march across a border and attack, everyone who knew your victim will henceforth condemn you as a filthy RoPist.
 
Last edited:
WeirdoJoker said:
The option is there. When you click on "Diplomacy," there's an option that says, "That's it! Prepare for WAR!"
Click to expand...

tjs282 said:
As well as the 'Prepare for war!' option (and assuming you're not playing an AW-variant!), you can also declare war by 'renegotiating' an existing PT. Go to your 'Active Trades' box, and click on 'Peace Treaty' (if it's got a '(--)' by it, then you can even DoW without breaking your trade-rep). Your foreign advisor will put on his scared face: tell him yes to renegotiation, and then make an outrageous demand of your target (e.g. "Give me all your gold and techs, or else!"). From what I've seen, even if you're stronger, the AI-leader will almost always refuse your fair offer, and then you can go to war with a clear(er) conscience ("Well, I gave him a chance to capitulate -- this war is therefore all his fault!") ;)
Yup, if you simply march across a border and attack, everyone who knew your victim will henceforth condemn you as a filthy RoPist.
Click to expand...

Sheesh! Thanks (again) guys. As ever, I had no clue.
 
I have uploaded my game to my current turn. I want to show how I have used feudalism and have had success in crushing some opponents in Diety level.

Important steps are to create lots of cities to reduce unit costs. As for leaving infrastructure in conquered cities (not nuking them), all cities outside of my main 10 or 11 cities have no production of any importance, therefore the only infrastructure I like in conquered cities is an aquaduct/hospital so that I can draft citizens out of it (eventually), a courthouse for any possible efficiency in the future, and harbour where there is not a lot of food available. I have forced stock exchanges in some of these cities so that I can begin creating wall street in one of my main cities, but I didn't want to waste turns creating stock exchanges in my other cities. I also have forced temples out of conquered cities in Carthage just to make sure the AI doesn't find any empty space to settle on, although I have blocked Carthage off with my units anyway. I have also forced settlers out of conquered cities simply to litter the conquered land with more cities and pay less unit costs. About 20 turns into it, some of these settlements that I built near rivers are getting to be over size 6 and I am drafting them.

Regarding RoP versus declaring war without an RoP, I have looked at the page number you are referring to, however, there is simply someone's statement about how the AI views them both the same, but no reference to any research documents. There are some research documents on this website, and if you can find if/where the research says this is the case, that would be great. I remember there is an attitude study that may mention this, but there may be other studies as well.
 

Attachments

  • Upload - Aztecs Feudalism 1796AD.SAV
    1 MB · Views: 47
tjs282 said:
i

Just remember though, even after you've technically cancelled an RoP (or never made one to start with), if your troops are already inside your target's borders when you DoW, you'll still become an 'RoP-rapist' in the eyes of anyone who already knows your victim. You won't be able to sign RoPs (for a fair price) with any of those Civs again -- unless you can also tie it to something they really really want.
Click to expand...

@greatmindsthink
See, it's there. Lanzelot has also said the same and even if you can't find it, just take this to be true.
 
greatmindsthink said:
Where is the research to back this up? A reference to a research article on this site would be great.
Click to expand...
Not sure if there's a specific article about RoP-reputation, but I (re)searched for 'civ3' plus 'trade rep', 'ai attitude' or 'rop rep', and found the following:

Microbe's article on trade reputation, written ~2 years after the release of Conquests. It's not 100% accurate with respect to breaking PTs (as noted in the following discussion), but as far as RoPs go, it's good (or at least, seems to be). bustedsynapses makes some fairly definitive statements on page 3 of the associated discussion thread.

BamSpeedy's research on AI attitude, with actual numbers to back it up -- you'll need to scroll down to the stuff about RoPs. According to that article, DoWing not only counts permanently against you (not just with your target, but with all civs), but also that DoWs made while you have units in that enemy's territory (whether or not you have an RoP) have worse effects on all AI-Civs' attitudes to you, than DoWs made prior to invading. Unfortunately this research was done for unpatched PtW shortly after release, so may not be 100% valid for later patches of PtW, or for Conquests.

And finally, a short thread discussing RoP reputation. Conquests was already out (and I believe patched to v.1.22) when this thread was posted, and some pretty knowledgeable players contributed to it (e.g. Turner, Bartleby, Satchel), so the info should be reasonably good. All anecdotal however.
 
greatmindsthink said:
Where is the research to back this up? A reference to a research article on this site would be great.
Click to expand...
You could do some yourself. [emoji6]
Towards the end of any (non UN) game just declare war with your units standing in the ai territory.
The next time you try negotiating a RoP, if you see your other opponents saying things like "After what you did to...." etc you can be sure that the aforementioned thing is correct. Also you might want to negotiate the RoP with an ai that knows your RoP rape victim for the experiment top work out.
 
justanick said:
On Chieftain you can even trigger more than one golden age.
Click to expand...

I also checked it the other way round ( GA first via unit then via Wonders) and got no 2nd golden age. I was playing Persia, scientific, industrious and got my first GA using immortals. Then even after having built the hanging gardens, pyramids and newtons University I didn't get a second GA. Therefore we can finally conclude that there can be only one Golden Age, even at Chieftain.
 
As a city includes both road and culture the resources can be used for happiness etc., furthermore you get full use of the bonus on production and commerce. Food however is lost, as food of the city tiles remains 2(or 3 for AGRI), therefore founding cities on desert is the best choice, while grassland and floodplains are poor choices for the city tile.

What i said refers to values without the despotism penalty applied. That penalty can mix things up a bit. Further one needs to consider that the capital has a minimal commerce of 4 before despotism penalty. Once the regular commerce of the city tile exceeds those 4(up to 7 depending on colossus, seafaring bonus and commerce bonus of republic and democracy) the regular commerce value will be used.
 
justanick said:
As a city includes both road and culture the resources can be used for happiness etc., furthermore you get full use of the bonus on production and commerce. Food however is lost, as food of the city tiles remains 2(or 3 for AGRI), therefore founding cities on desert is the best choice, while grassland and floodplains are poor choices for the city tile.

What i said refers to values without the despotism penalty applied. That penalty can mix things up a bit. Further one needs to consider that the capital has a minimal commerce of 4 before despotism penalty. Once the regular commerce of the city tile exceeds those 4(up to 7 depending on colossus, seafaring bonus and commerce bonus of republic and democracy) the regular commerce value will be used.
Click to expand...
Dis this mean that the shield output of a city isn't fixed ?
I don't remember having ever seen a city center produce no shield even if it's on a grassland.
 
A city's shield output is not fixed. It depends on the terrain. E.g. when settling on iron or furs, you get the additional shield from those resources and when settling on uranium, you get two additional shields.

(Also, when settling on a cow, which of course one should not do, you would get the additional shield, but the additional food is lost.)

Oh, and of course the despotism penalty and the fact whether a settlement is smaller than size 7 or not mix things up a bit... ;)
 
Lanzelot said:
A city's shield output is not fixed. It depends on the terrain. E.g. when settling on iron or furs, you get the additional shield from those resources and when settling on uranium, you get two additional shields.

(Also, when settling on a cow, which of course one should not do, you would get the additional shield, but the additional food is lost.)

Oh, and of course the despotism penalty and the fact whether a settlement is smaller than size 7 or not mix things up a bit... ;)
Click to expand...
So settling on a hill with coal that is see later would give me 1 shield for the city centre plus 1 from the hill and then the bonus due to coal all the while connecting my empire to that future location of coal.
[emoji3] [emoji3] Very nice.
 
On one of my games, the byzantines are building the SoZ which I want but I have no ivory and it'll take me some time to gather some military to snatch it. For the time being, I was thinking of pillaging their ivory but I'm not sure if that'll stop them from being able to get the wonder. I have this doubt because after the SoZ is complete, even if ivory is lost, we still get culture but not ACs. So will I be able to stop the byzantines from getting the SoZ of I pillage their ivory?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Recommended Mods/AI Improvements/Other Q's
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
Spoonwood
S
V
  • Sticky
TSG 242 Opening Actions Thread
Replies
11
Views
496
Bufnitza
B
V
TSG 240 Opening Actions Thread
Replies
10
Views
803
Valasynthia
V
Nizef
TSG 241 Announcement
Replies
9
Views
741
sebtanic
S
V
TSG 238 Opening Actions Thread
Replies
7
Views
626
lerrocco
L
Top Bottom