Is BNW just Sim City??

beetle said:

I don't agree that the cheating requires a conscious decision. The AI could be programmed to circumvent game rules under specific circumstances. That could be fairly characterized as cheating -- especially if those circumstances are not clearly explained to the player.

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Disagree if you'd like, but I looked in my Merriam Webster dictionary and the definition is:

cheat vb 1: to deprive of something through fraud or deceit 2: to practice fraud or trickery 3: to violate rules (as of a game) dishonestly

All of these definitions imply conscious effort (especially #3 as acting dishonestly requires sentience). If the AI is "programmed to circumvent game rules under specific circumstances" it isn't cheating; it's simply following its code.

beetle said:

The AI gets to challenge the player about troops near the AI border. This is not an option for the player. Is that cheating?

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No, but it is unfair and it is poor game design. But, again, that's built into the AI's programming.

This term "cheating" that gets bandied about on these boards is merely a shock-jock style buzz word meant to grab the reader's attention to get them riled up. It's an overreaction by players who see something as unfair gameplay-wise and feel the need to blow the situation out of proportion.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not trying to attack you personally, beetle. In fact, earlier in the thread, you seemed to be disagreeing with the idea the AI cheats. I'm not sure why the sudden switch in stance

shaglio said:

In fact, earlier in the thread, you seemed to be disagreeing with the idea the AI cheats. I'm not sure why the sudden switch in stance

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Yes, I disagree with the idea that the AI cheats! But even with your excellent citations, I am not comfortable ruling out the idea on a point of semantics.

shaglio said:

This term "cheating" that gets bandied about on these boards is merely a shock-jock style buzz word meant to grab the reader's attention to get them riled up. It's an overreaction by players who see something as unfair gameplay-wise and feel the need to blow the situation out of proportion.

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That seems accurate!

Yeah, an AI cheating would imply them knowing what the outcome would be in "normal" circumstances and then decide not to go there because its results would be worse.

Following that logic, an AI can not cheat

if my units cost 50% less than yours, I'm cheating

if I get free technologies and you don't, I'm cheating

if I see through fog of war and you don't, I'm cheating

if I have a combat bonus vs. barbarians that you don't, I'm cheating

You guys feel like arguing semantics to me. I'm not sure why it matters.
If someone want 0 bonus and a challenge he either has to be a poor player or play multiplayer. Being a good player and wanting an AI with no advantage is called dreaming.

If someone wants a bigger challenge at King or Emperor he can try my mod in its experimental version. Latest feedbacks are mostly about players losing difficulties they are used to winning easily. Or Artificial Unintelligence alone if not interested in changing the game at all.

This thread is now hopelessly derailed from its topic which was how similar is it to "Sim City".

If you'd like to discuss mods improving the AI, please do so in the Creation & Customization forum.
If you'd like to further discuss the definitions of "Cheating" vs "AI Handicap", please do so in the All Other Games forum.

Moderator Action: Thread closed.