Chronicles of Adea - fantasy mod development thread

Well, the one thing I would say is that there is a setting/concept "how the races came to be" post that PawelS wrote...which is here. So, you can work a bit off of that.

I don't see a problem with anything else; I'd just say that PawelS (and, to a much lesser extent myself and others) have defined a few things. You're right though, in that we probably do need to clarify/define better/think of stuff for those things which you brought up.
 
Yeah I'm basing the general idea off that. As I said mainly just making sure it doesn't come out completely different to everyone else's ideas otherwise the looks with be hard to live down :D
 
Good post MrCasperTom. Here are my answers to some of your thoughts:

If I was writing solo that would be fine and, while at present, I am the only 'writer' this is a group project; I'm sure we all have ideas and our own concepts. So realistically I need to make sure the concepts are right to make sure everything fits into the world we’re creating. So basically I need to go through a rigorous design process which, for the first half, needs to be vetted by everyone involved. I might have to put it somewhere else so it doesn’t clog up the area meant for general alpha discussion. Thoughts? Separate thread or some other medium (something like a skype chat or similar might be entirely useful for easy access general messaging).

I thought about using an external forum where we can discuss the mod before we can get a subforum here. Actually I created a forum here some time ago for a different purpose - a game that I'm going to create called Kingdoms of Adea, which would be based on the same world as this mod (there is a post about the game features there, you can read it if you're interested). I already started working on that game, and at some point of the development I'm going to call for the involvement of the community. But later I decided that I should work on the Civ5 mod first.

Let me know what you think about using that forum for the discussions about the Chronicles mod - I think it's a good idea because we can have separate threads for things like story, civs, units and so on.

Setting/Concept

So I’ve been looking through this thread and the other design thread (I also need to get looking at the GitHub file. I will do so hopefully in the next week). You’ve mentioned High Fantasy, Good vs Evil. When it comes to writing, from my end at least, I find things get a little boring and monotone when that happens. I mean it can be done and it can be done well but the problem I have is that it comes down to “Sure they have cool units and look really different but ultimately their motivation is the same”. What gets people interested is the motivation. I mean I’m not a huge fan of Tolkien/LotR (don’t get me wrong I enjoy the films [found the books a bit boring minus the hobbit] and the setting in amazing with all the background) with the whole good/evil thing but even then there is layers of why each races/faction is doing what. Minus Sauron cause he’s evil. Yeah we get it. Baddy. World. Take. Over. (Although as I haven’t read much I admit I am larger ignorant so could be entirely wrong. Feel free to correct me :D).

About good vs evil - that's what the "canonical" story is about, and there will be Good and Evil (and Neutral) in the game, as a way of using the BNW ideology system. But it doesn't have to be the dominant element in the game, as different civs can have different motivations, and there can be conflicts based on different reasons than good vs evil. For example there can be a conflict between Elves and Dwarves based on a "nature vs technology" concept. Of course the actual wars in the game aren't predetermined, but this kind of tension between the races can be a part of the background story.

To make each race there’s a few things that come to mind; Why do they do the things they do, how are they different, what is the their society like etc. Thus they need a motivation, a basic backdrop and theme. Just like a feudal, knightly race had the theme they also need something to explain it in my opinion, like why is it that way and everything in between. Take Game of Thrones; each house has the general same idea but is different. Now I haven’t played FFH, or even saw it until I was pointed to it, (I kind of skipped Civ4 as the drastic change from CivIII meant I couldn’t be bothered to learn and then I just picked up Civ5 so it was kind left out for me) but from a brief skim I think what made is popular was the general tone, background and diversity of races. I am no way saying to copy it or base heavily on it as I can’t be bothered to read up enough to do this plus I don’t like writing like that, but what I mean is I need to start from the bottom.

So what I was thinking is a way to fit it in with the good/evil/neutral ideal without making it like that, if that makes any sense. In other words what is the general world concept? So I was thinking along the lines of the general mythology of the world. With the Gods it could be assumed that, through prophecy, old scrolls or whatever, that each race knows about the ‘promised land’ i.e. the fact that one day they would be carried to another world. That could be the general vein of knowledge running through the world; regardless of which god/gods they worshipped. Thus how they perceive to go about this could be what determines their actions.

For example the Archons wish to bring back a pre-cataclysm race is due to wanting guidance in how to perceive. They also believe in the embodiment of the gods within one being or the one true god. Maybe this is to do with the hope that, by doing so, they will better advance down the path to the promise land or maybe this is the actual belief. It adds a bit of uncertainty. On the other hand a race like the Orcs might not care about the whims of the Gods; maybe they perceive that their actions dictate their fate and that they need to survive to take to the promise land and that the worship of the Gods was not the intention of the Gods but simply to live and proper until the designated time.

This somewhat throws away the notion of Good and Evil I suppose and therefore might not be what your aiming for. On one hand if that was the motivation of the Orcs then they could be perceived as Evil; if they raid lands in order to have a place to grow they could be seen as aggressive and evil. On the other hand, they are just trying to live. In a way it greys the borders but not too much. If I race tortures and maims people they’re rather bad souls, but now they have a reason to do so.

Actually I haven't thought much about such things, so feel free to make up your own stories :) Generally the ethics will be represented in the game as BNW ideologies, so the "tenets" associated with each of them will dictate which things are viewed as good, neutral and evil (some ideologies will be probably blocked for some races, so you can't have evil Archons or good Orcs, for example). This brings up another problem - the player actions can be viewed as good and evil too (for example declaring war on someone without a good reason can be considered evil), and these actions might be inconsistent with the ideology that player chooses. But I think it's a problem for the later stages of development, so we don't have to worry about it now.

Race differences

This is more a minor note, and something I’ll get a more general look at when I see the GitHub thing, but with the diversity you want to offer in game, does this mean we’re not having too much diversity in background? Sounds a bit confusing when I say it like that. Basically is the main freedom going to come from ‘Policies, Religion and Good/Evil/Neutral?’ I’m perfectly ok with this but, from a background point of view, shall I create a ‘canon’ world and then players can stick to this, and any potential scenarios will too, but obviously there’s freedom to alter as they wish? I presume the aim is to create a world, and the AI would stick to it, but then the player can go their own route if they want.

Generally I'm not going to pick a similar route to Pazyryk's mod, where the player basically creates a custom civ as the game progresses. I prefer more "conservative" approach, so it will be quite similar to the base game, although the differences between civs will be somewhat bigger. So, like in base Civ5, the UUs, UBs, UIs and UAs will be based on civs, while policies, beliefs and ideologies will be customizable by the player (and the AI will probably use those that fit the racial themes best, using the flavor system). But there should be more UUs, UBs etc. per civ than in the base game.

Technology

Again minor point that I can look up but I like clarifying. I presume the aim is medieval with swords and magic and then a couple of races have access to limited gun-powder? I’m perfectly happy with this, I like the idea of it being essentially ‘mundane magic’ that only a small minority have and it not being too powerful.

That's true :)

Also I will look at the tech tree; I like the idea of the first half being a linear progression of technology but then the latter periods being more a focussing on the advancements of society/progression of time. But that is more a preference and obviously should be ignored. More a comment :p

I'm not sure what kind of things you mean for the second part, but it sounds interesting. The late game part of the tech tree is somewhat unfinished, so I need ideas in this regard...

Magic

This has got me thinking so I’m going to run ideas out there. Magic needs to be explained but in what sense, so how does it exist and what forms does it take.

So I was thinking along these lines of the following:

You mentioned two planes of existence (I believe) so I’m obviously going to stick with that at the core. So basically Magicians have a connection to this plane and they channel it to create forms of energy i.e. Magic.

This connection is largely innate; people are born with it or they are not. However I had another thought about induced magic and then noticed you talking about Crystal plains. In a game ideal it could be a potential way of providing a strategic resource for extra mages. So I was thinking of some kind of crystal that, if introduced to a person (via injection of the dust or something along those lines) they could also potentially access the plane. Or die horribly in the attempt. Of course most could only have a limited connection even if they succeeded, hence why it isn’t common.

Magic can also be stored in item (e.g. the crystals) and thus people can build up a store. With the right mind a person can channel magic to do pretty much everything; however there is limits depending on a person’s willpower and control therefore most races teach a series of school/disciplines in order to help mages focus and not lose control. The truly great mages of those who break out from these edicts and can control the very essence but this is of course quite dangerous.

That’s the basic ideas of course. Thoughts?

There is a strategic resource called Magical Power indeed, it will be used for mages, summoned units and city enchantments (which will work like buildings purchased with faith in G&K). This resource will come both from the terrain (Magical Nodes), and some buildings (like Wizard's Towers). About the details of the explanation how magic works - it's up to you :)

Units

This is something I’m going to focus on more with each race as it is more game focused. Also I will try and assign it to various technologies to make it easier for everyone.

But just a quick question; How much do we want? And for when? I presume the Alpha (in my mind) is there to both throw out the idea of the mod, to gain interest and to lay out the bare-bones for assessment and picking apart, yes? So how many unique units do we want for that? Also do we want a complete overhaul of units for each race, so it is pretty much completely different for each one? I’d be happy to take that challenge one but that’ll take more thinking and time, so doubt I could get it done for Alpha (I presume that’ll be fine though). Minus basic things like archers (but again I could go crazy) I think eventually I could stick to a theme for each. Hopefully. Depends how many Civ we got through and how many eventually came out.

I think I talked about this with rocklikeafool, IIRC we determined that there should be a minimum of 5 unique units+buildings per civ. Generally, I don't think all the units should be unique, but there should be much more of them per civ than in the base game.
 
Good post MrCasperTom. Here are my answers to some of your thoughts:

I thought about using an external forum where we can discuss the mod before we can get a subforum here. Actually I created a forum here some time ago for a different purpose - a game that I'm going to create called Kingdoms of Adea, which would be based on the same world as this mod (there is a post about the game features there, you can read it if you're interested). I already started working on that game, and at some point of the development I'm going to call for the involvement of the community. But later I decided that I should work on the Civ5 mod first.

Let me know what you think about using that forum for the discussions about the Chronicles mod - I think it's a good idea because we can have separate threads for things like story, civs, units and so on.

What's really funny if I was genuinely thinking today that creating this setting and with the ideas you've developed for it/what you'd like to implement would make far more fun by creating it into a seperate game. Something along the lines of a mixture of say Heroes of Might and Magic/Civilisation would work awesomely.

It seems you were far ahead of my thinking on game creating :lol:

I also agree it is a good idea. Makes a more manageable way to post every little idea/piece of work and use this as a direct portal to get feedback on ideas/build up interest from the Civ community.



About good vs evil - that's what the "canonical" story is about, and there will be Good and Evil (and Neutral) in the game, as a way of using the BNW ideology system. But it doesn't have to be the dominant element in the game, as different civs can have different motivations, and there can be conflicts based on different reasons than good vs evil. For example there can be a conflict between Elves and Dwarves based on a "nature vs technology" concept. Of course the actual wars in the game aren't predetermined, but this kind of tension between the races can be a part of the background story.

Actually I haven't thought much about such things, so feel free to make up your own stories :) Generally the ethics will be represented in the game as BNW ideologies, so the "tenets" associated with each of them will dictate which things are viewed as good, neutral and evil (some ideologies will be probably blocked for some races, so you can't have evil Archons or good Orcs, for example). This brings up another problem - the player actions can be viewed as good and evil too (for example declaring war on someone without a good reason can be considered evil), and these actions might be inconsistent with the ideology that player chooses. But I think it's a problem for the later stages of development, so we don't have to worry about it now.

Generally I'm not going to pick a similar route to Pazyryk's mod, where the player basically creates a custom civ as the game progresses. I prefer more "conservative" approach, so it will be quite similar to the base game, although the differences between civs will be somewhat bigger. So, like in base Civ5, the UUs, UBs, UIs and UAs will be based on civs, while policies, beliefs and ideologies will be customizable by the player (and the AI will probably use those that fit the racial themes best, using the flavor system). But there should be more UUs, UBs etc. per civ than in the base game.

There is a strategic resource called Magical Power indeed, it will be used for mages, summoned units and city enchantments (which will work like buildings purchased with faith in G&K). This resource will come both from the terrain (Magical Nodes), and some buildings (like Wizard's Towers). About the details of the explanation how magic works - it's up to you :)

I think I talked about this with rocklikeafool, IIRC we determined that there should be a minimum of 5 unique units+buildings per civ. Generally, I don't think all the units should be unique, but there should be much more of them per civ than in the base game.

All of this makes sense and smooths over all the questions I had. Definitely helps with the whole writing but making sure it fits with the mod, which is essential for parts of it. Thanks a lot.

I'm not sure what kind of things you mean for the second part, but it sounds interesting. The late game part of the tech tree is somewhat unfinished, so I need ideas in this regard...

Yeah I couldn't quite articulate the idea very well at the time of writing so I'll get back to you on that one :goodjob:
 
What's really funny if I was genuinely thinking today that creating this setting and with the ideas you've developed for it/what you'd like to implement would make far more fun by creating it into a seperate game. Something along the lines of a mixture of say Heroes of Might and Magic/Civilisation would work awesomely.

It seems you were far ahead of my thinking on game creating :lol:

There are already some games that can be described as a mix of HoMM and Civ, for example Master of Magic, Age of Wonders series and Warlock: Master of the Arcane. But my idea for a new game is a bit different (and also different from the Civ5 mod, that's why I think these 2 projects don't conflict with each other) - it will have more RPG elements (quests, adventures, reputation, dungeons to explore), and conquering the entire map won't be possible - you will have only one "headquarters" (a castle, for example), or just a group of adventurers.

So I think I will concentrate on the mod for now, and continue making the game later, especially because it's a much harder and more complicated thing to crate a new game. Also I'm not good at making graphics (even simple), so I will need someone to help me in this regard.

I also agree it is a good idea. Makes a more manageable way to post every little idea/piece of work and use this as a direct portal to get feedback on ideas/build up interest from the Civ community.

OK, I will organize some things on that forum, so we can start using it during the weekend.
 
The forum is ready to use (see the link in the first post), for now there are no posts in the CoA section, but I will be moving some information from this thread (and older threads) there.

Feel free to create any topics about the mod there. Let me know if you have any technical problems using that forum, I'm not an experienced forum administrator, so I could do something wrong :) Also note that it's the free "pricing plan", so no attachments are allowed.
 
I think I talked about this with rocklikeafool, IIRC we determined that there should be a minimum of 5 unique units+buildings per civ. Generally, I don't think all the units should be unique, but there should be much more of them per civ than in the base game.
Yes, now that you mention it, that sounds correct. Some civs will have more, based upon how we do civ design for certain civs, but yeah.
 
The mod is updated, changelog posted at the Adea Forum (for those who don't know where it is - see the link in the first post of this thread).
 
No update this weekend, but I edited the changelog post in the Adea forum by adding a list of planned changes for the next version(s) - discussion about these things is welcome, at either of the forums :)
 
Just a quick update on my end, won't really be getting much work done till after the 3rd June as I've still got one more exam.

However couple of notes: I've secured permission for the use of a few pieces of artwork so that's always cool. Its only about 5 or 6 but got to start somewhere.

Also if people want to look over these: I'm constructing various profiles etc for units, leaders and things in this projects folder. Let me know if there's anything missing from the profiles below as its really easy to add them in.



 
What program is that? 'Cause it looks a hell of a lot easier than hardcoding it all. I assume you enter the info in those fields, and the program generates the code?
 
Its a program called Articy Draft:SE (the Steam addition). I've been playing around with the test version for a while and its on offer for 33% off on steam so I thought I'd pick it up.

Its more a program for designing the story for the game. It has a tool called the flow which is used to link events together so you can plot the story. However its quite versitile so I plan to edit it for a general world timeline, policy trees and the tech tree (you can reference asset into each flow point so I can essentially recreate a reference tech tree). Its a massive help with piecing the whole ideas and world together by keeping it in one place and allowing referencing to various other objects. Also as I write and, if the oppurtunity presents itself, would toy with the idea of writing for a game development time, is great for my purposes.

As for exporting the data I'm not too sure; I know you can export to Excel, Word and XML files but I'm not that technologically minded so I'm not sure what use that would be for the mod (I believe XML is used a bit??). Basically I generate a template and write whatever I want into it. It then just stays in the program really; not code is generated (unless I tell it to) as it more a design process streamlining tool.
 
Well, sounds useful for your purposes.
 
Interesting tool indeed, good for organizing things. Can you show me those pieces of art we can use?
 
Interesting tool indeed, good for organizing things. Can you show me those pieces of art we can use?


Spoiler :



Both these two from the same artist. Both I see as leader artworks (for Undead and Snobar respectively), at least for placeholders for the Alpha. The latter mayhaps be a bit too 'civilised' for a Viking but I was more working from the angle of they wore armour because they faced the sea without fear of drowning; to fall overboard is to be shamed anyway as a Snobar so better to be dead then to live with that shame, was the thought I had. But I'm open to suggestion of course.

Furthermore this artist is open to using his pieces: I few are quite nice and would fit in my opinion. One of the best I can see if the following, which might fit the idea of demonic promotion you're aiming for nicely:

Spoiler :
 
All 3 pics look great, keep negotiating with the artists so we can use more portraits of similar quality :)
 
Those all fit wonderfully! :)
 
I had a quick thought while walking through the rain covered streets of the English Summer. It will of course depend on what we can adapt and how moddable the World Congress is but at some point we may have to include the BNW features in the game. Trade routes are fine but does WC fit a fantasy setting?

I was thinking that something along the lines of mages tapping into the other plane and trying to influence the patterns of the world could be substitutes. Delegates could represent how many mages are put to the task and getting other people to 'vote' could either represent other races agreeing with your plans, paying of other races mages to work with you etc etc.

As I said depends on what we can do but I wanted to put it down while it was in my head.
 
I'm thinking along the lines of the White Council in LotR, or the Overcouncil and Undercouncil in FFH (but I don't mean that there should be 2 congresses, this would probably require heavy DLL modding). Generally I like the idea of a place where various things can be voted (and connecting it with magic is a good idea too), although it probably won't be implemented in the alpha - I'm going to disable this feature at the early stages of development.
 
Indeed just brainstorming. I also think that the Idologies, depending on how we could play with them, might be a way to seperate Magic from policies and relgion. Of course this conflicts with the renamed faith being mana but, again, just an idea.

On the topic of the alpha, once the 3rd June rolls past I'm going to have a lot of free time so I'll get down to the nitty gritty of writing the things needed for the alpha. From what I can gather from your various posts the following will need done:

  1. Leaders - I'll spend the time to go hunt for the artwork for the other 10 and obviously get something on each of them.
  2. Civs - Units - You mentioned five per Civ so I think I'll probably aim for that target for the Alpha and probably expand later. I'll also hopefully get artwork to go with them all (no one says an Alpha can't look somewhat pretty). Also I presume we'll need City Names?
  3. You mentioned beliefs - Are we going to stick with the basic, 'normal' religions for the Alpha or you want some new ones/belief names to go along with it?

That's the important things that I can think of that I could do from my side. Missed anything?

I do know that when it comes to Civ Design I'm coming up a blank with the Vodnik. I have a good wellpool of Slavic knowledge to draw from (Obviously you Pawel but also my partner is from the Czech Republic) but I think I need to discuss more what you imagine for them as I can't quite form a concept. The putting in a more Slavic feel via names etc. should be a bit easier.
 
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