The Kuriotates

Rando · Jun 20, 2006

Xuenay said:
1) Scale the amount of cities allowed to the Kuriotates to the map size. Only being allowed three cities isn't any sort of a problem on a Duel map, but it will be much more so on a Huge one.

But other than that this does look like a very, very nice civ now. I'm loving it already, just a bit worried if it'll keep up with the others.

I like the idea of scaling the number of cities allowed to the Kuriotates to map size. I usually play the Kuriotates on a Huge map and was worried about being limited to 3 production cities.

I like the ideas to differentiate the Kuriotates. Would prefer that they get the 3rd ring bonus, UU archers, and boosted culture and city production with no limitation on the number of production cities though

Yeah, yeah, so I am greedy. What of it?

Also, just some ideas for art/style for the Kuriotates: Would love to see some more dragon flavored are for the Kuriotates - espeicially for units. When I play them, I envision them as being very dragon-centric and often name my galleys things like "Dragonwing" and "Dragonclaw". I would love to see them have UU that fit that theme (as opposed to an oriental or asian theme). Helmets with dragon helms and dragon scale shields - that sort of thing. Also, I like the idea of there units having alot of gold coloring on their armor/shields to go along with Eurabatres.

Kael · Jun 20, 2006

Rando said:
I like the idea of scaling the number of cities allowed to the Kuriotates to map size. I usually play the Kuriotates on a Huge map and was worried about being limited to 3 production cities.

I like the ideas to differentiate the Kuriotates. Would prefer that they get the 3rd ring bonus, UU archers, and boosted culture and city production with no limitation on the number of production cities though Yeah, yeah, so I am greedy. What of it?

Also, just some ideas for art/style for the Kuriotates: Would love to see some more dragon flavored are for the Kuriotates - espeicially for units. When I play them, I envision them as being very dragon-centric and often name my galleys things like "Dragonwing" and "Dragonclaw". I would love to see them have UU that fit that theme (as opposed to an oriental or asian theme). Helmets with dragon helms and dragon scale shields - that sort of thing. Also, I like the idea of there units having alot of gold coloring on their armor/shields to go along with Eurabatres.

The amount of cities available to sprawling civs is configurable in the editor. But I will need some playtest data from you all before I up the city count on large maps. Mostly because the Kuriotates may be the best civ for huge maps because they can expand forever (since their settlements dont take maintenance). We will just have to see how they play out.

Rando · Jun 20, 2006

Kael said:
The amount of cities available to sprawling civs is configurable in the editor. But I will need some playtest data from you all before I up the city count on large maps. Mostly because the Kuriotates may be the best civ for huge maps because they can expand forever (since their settlements dont take maintenance). We will just have to see how they play out.

Hmm that is a good point. I feel better now that my Kuriotate empire will be able to stretch from sea to sea.

Also, someone earlier (Corlindale?) mentioned that Highgarden from Song of Ice and Fire as a model for Kuriotates. I think that perhaps the Targaryen's are definitely more of a match to the Kuriotates

loki1232 · Jun 20, 2006

Trust me, they produce units very, very, quickly. By the time a rival civ has 8 cities the kurioates cities will be huge and able to produce large quantitites of units.

Corlindale · Jun 20, 2006

I think that perhaps the Targaryen's are definitely more of a match to the Kuriotates

Well, only when it comes to affinity with dragons. The Targaryens are much more fierce and warlike than the Kuriotates, I think. And Cardith Lorda is most definately not similar in personality to the Mad King Aerys.

woodelf · Jun 20, 2006

Yeah, not having to worry about building settlers allows your cities to grow faster thus producing more hammers. Plus, even with settlements and large cultural areas, you only have 3 main cities to defend. If someone scorches your improvements and settlements it's not a big deal compared to having to defend 10+ cities and losing one of them.

Side question - If a Kuriotate settlement has pop 2 or more and is captured does the conquering civ get a city or a settlement or is it autorazed?

Kael · Jun 20, 2006

woodelf said:
Yeah, not having to worry about building settlers allows your cities to grow faster thus producing more hammers. Plus, even with settlements and large cultural areas, you only have 3 main cities to defend. If someone scorches your improvements and settlements it's not a big deal compared to having to defend 10+ cities and losing one of them.

Side question - If a Kuriotate settlement has pop 2 or more and is captured does the conquering civ get a city or a settlement or is it autorazed?

They get a city, though of cource there isnt much in it to start out with.

woodelf · Jun 20, 2006

That saves me the trouble of losing one on purpose now.

Rando · Jun 20, 2006

Corlindale said:
Well, only when it comes to affinity with dragons. The Targaryens are much more fierce and warlike than the Kuriotates, I think. And Cardith Lorda is most definately not similar in personality to the Mad King Aerys.

Yeah, I would definitely not compare Cardith Lorda to Aerys but he might be compared to Daenarys though no? Charismatic, wise, resourceful leader, gathering together wandering followers... aside from some obvious anatomical differences of course :rolleyes:

Xuenay · Jun 20, 2006

Kael said:
Mostly because the Kuriotates may be the best civ for huge maps because they can expand forever (since their settlements dont take maintenance).

But don't except for culture don't really contribute anything, either. But you're the guys who have played this and not me, so I'll trust your judgment on the issue. The idea is beginning to grow on me more and more, the thought of having a large number of "vassal cities" that you can easily sacrifice in a war and that push the conflict away from the central cities producing all the units doing the fighting is very very cool.

Somehow I suspect that God-King might be one of the best civic picks for this civilization, I wonder why.

loki1232 · Jun 20, 2006

Rando said:
Yeah, I would definitely not compare Cardith Lorda to Aerys but he might be compared to Daenarys though no? Charismatic, wise, resourceful leader, gathering together wandering followers... aside from some obvious anatomical differences of course

And both being young.
Cardith doesn't have a slave army though.

feydras · Jun 21, 2006

I regularly play the Kuriotates. I like the leader and the current feel of them. I think making them an industrial, large city civ is the wrong direction. I picture them as being more of a wise, peaceful, diplomatic civ. The Kuriotates wanting to spread the wisdom of Cardith, peacefully if possible. But are willing to violently oppose evil.

I think the ideas for limiting growth would work better for the races with the Defensive trait.

Kuriotates are a human based civ and if there is one thing humans are famous for in fantasy worlds it is their capacity for growth.

An idea for theme could be anti-oppression. Make them have a strong aversion to slavery and civs adopting the OO.

Random other thought - i love satyrs. Put 'em in somewhere, eh?

- feydras

Chalid · Jun 21, 2006

@feydras: Your perception of the Kuriotates is more fitting for the Elhoim.

The Kuriotates were always planned to rely on few but powerfull cities and on their highly improved land (which might come in form of better improvements available for the kuriotates or not dependend on how stron they come out in playtesting).
They wera laways planned to be a good target for pillagers too.

Rando · Jun 21, 2006

I had an idea for a UU for the kuriotates that I wanted to suggest. The idea is a sort of "dragonsworn" guard for Cardith Lorda - basically very loyal followers of Cardith who are willing to lay down their lives for him. Essentially, the would be willing to sacrifice their lives to defend him. In practice, I was thinking a special promotion, only available to the "dragonswon" which allows them to sacrifice themselves to automatically destroy any unit in an attacking stack (even a much more powerful unit). The dragonsworn would then be destroyed as well. Obviously, there would need to be some sort of limit because you wouldn't want a dragon sworn taking out uber units like heroes or avatars. And its a promotion that would only get one use ... but you get the idea. Don't know if something like that has before, but thought that might be a neat idea for a UU for the Kuriotates.

Psychic_Llamas · Jun 21, 2006

Make Centaurs the elite military units (teir 3 and up)

Make the satires the recon units

Give them Dryads too (not Warhammer dryads, Lion the witch and the wardrobe Dryads) which can be spys, etc, and maybe uber workers in forests?

Good Sauce · Jun 21, 2006

two quick things:
I think 'sprawling' should be renamed to 'Urban'. When i hear sprawling i imagine massive continent spaning empires, which isn't the case
Also i dont think he needs creative, they seem to be a "locomotive" civ, hard to get going in the early stages of the game, but difficult to stop later. with creative it would be too easy to get to that third ring of production. (if you're still planning on doing that, i hope so its an awesome idea) also with creative i think he would overshadow perpentach as cultural king

Kael · Jun 21, 2006

Good Sauce said:
two quick things:
I think 'sprawling' should be renamed to 'Urban'. When i hear sprawling i imagine massive continent spaning empires, which isn't the case
Also i dont think he needs creative, they seem to be a "locomotive" civ, hard to get going in the early stages of the game, but difficult to stop later. with creative it would be too easy to get to that third ring of production. (if you're still planning on doing that, i hope so its an awesome idea) also with creative i think he would overshadow perpentach as cultural king

To be honest the trait name is referenced in to many places to be changed now unless we find something that is really really better. I didn't like urban because it sounds to modern, Im not in love with Sprawling but its okay.

And yes the 3rd ring is in and working fine. And Cardith is Expansive/Philosophical/Sprawling in 0.13, he isn't creative anymore for exactly the reasons you stated.

Thunderwing · Jun 21, 2006

Um, unless i missed something, the Kuriotates are going to get screwed over on diciple and hero units. If they go with Cult of the Dragon, they get only Eurubates(sp?) and noone else in either cataglory, and he comes in Armmagedon-era and doesn't have Hero, or they go with a regular religion, have to deal with the CotD culture drain, loose part of thier shtick, and still have in my personal opinion the 2nd-worst civilization hero, since he comes in when the game is almost over. Only Abashi is worse, since thier identical except for iCombat being 22 of the Gold and 20 on the Black. What i'm proposing is that Eurubates should only be buildable if they go Cult, they should get a civ hero that appears earlier, like say some sort of civilized "monster", maybe the first centuar to ally with them, and Cult should get an eairlier-group hero, maybe a half-dragon.

CotD also needs disciple units, if the Kurioates are going to have an actual dragon as a hero from the cult it needs some sort of servitors.

Kael · Jun 21, 2006

Thunderwing said:
Um, unless i missed something, the Kuriotates are going to get screwed over on diciple and hero units. If they go with Cult of the Dragon, they get only Eurubates(sp?) and noone else in either cataglory, and he comes in Armmagedon-era and doesn't have Hero, or they go with a regular religion, have to deal with the CotD culture drain, loose part of thier shtick, and still have in my personal opinion the 2nd-worst civilization hero, since he comes in when the game is almost over. Only Abashi is worse, since thier identical except for iCombat being 22 of the Gold and 20 on the Black. What i'm proposing is that Eurubates should only be buildable if they go Cult, they should get a civ hero that appears earlier, like say some sort of civilized "monster", maybe the first centuar to ally with them, and Cult should get an eairlier-group hero, maybe a half-dragon.

CotD also needs disciple units, if the Kurioates are going to have an actual dragon as a hero from the cult it needs some sort of servitors.

Its impossible to pick the Cult as a state religion. The Kuriotates and the Sheaim never suffer from the Cults negative effects regardless of what religion they belong to. They will have the religious heroes from whatever relgion they selected and Eurabatres, who is cool but as you said is a late game hero.

Thunderwing · Jun 21, 2006

Ok, I must have missed that decision. Sorry. Incidentally, what can Eurabatres do besides just having an insane iCombat and Fear? Any special abilities or spellcasting? I've never actually seen any of the dragons do anything except for acheron getting leveled by Valin one time.

An idea just occured to me. With thier whole unity shtick and the dragon thing, wouldnt it be awesome if they had some sort of dragonrider instead of elephants for thier exotic cavalry unit?

The Kuriotates

Warlord

Deity

Warlord

Loki

Emperor

Bard

Deity

Bard

Warlord

Prince

Loki

Prince

Black Dragon

Warlord

Wizard in the Making

(TM)

Deity

Chieftain

Deity

Chieftain

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