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The Nobles' Club Bullpen: Second Cycle

Overview Discussion
Hehe, if they're going to complain about minor tweaks, maybe it's time to bring back minor nations, odd land bridges, and other tactically unusual things that reward proper/abusive scouting.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
Hehe, if they're going to complain about minor tweaks, maybe it's time to bring back minor nations, odd land bridges, and other tactically unusual things that reward proper/abusive scouting.
Click to expand...

Maby it is time to bring that back!:D Like you said in one of the polycasts: ''Variety is the spice of Civ!''
 
Oh by the way, for civ, he leads the minors in leaderheadxml, so you can copy/paste that data over to any start for NC and allow him to take the place of a current AI with relative ease.
 
Hmm. I can fairly easily accept the idea of stopping changing deserts to plains, along with some of my other favourite edits, but I'm kind of reluctant to give up on ensuring resources for UUs are nearby. It depends on what people mean by "making sure the map is reasonable." A low-food start is certainly possible, since I've seen and rejected or edited some of those, and I wonder if Nobles (ie those who play at that level) would find it too frustrating.

Sorry I didn't log in yesterday so I could see responses to the above comment before creating a map. I expect to make the main choices about the map (leader and map type) in a couple of hours, and will check for responses before I do.
 
@dalamb what choices currently available?

edit: got to sleep. i'll be happy with any map available when i get up tmr.
 
just finished LIV NC game and I have a small plea...no more such big landmass... I had something like 23 cities, second biggest AI 17, other 2 both 14, the only reasonable was the last one with 7...it really didnt felt like standard map.
 
dalamb said:
Hmm. I can fairly easily accept the idea of stopping changing deserts to plains, along with some of my other favourite edits, but I'm kind of reluctant to give up on ensuring resources for UUs are nearby. It depends on what people mean by "making sure the map is reasonable." A low-food start is certainly possible, since I've seen and rejected or edited some of those, and I wonder if Nobles (ie those who play at that level) would find it too frustrating.

Sorry I didn't log in yesterday so I could see responses to the above comment before creating a map. I expect to make the main choices about the map (leader and map type) in a couple of hours, and will check for responses before I do.
Click to expand...

AI situation near the player is a way bigger factor than the strength of the capitol. I would take a plains cow start in every single game if it also guaranteed that one or two AI wouldn't forfeit any chance of winning at the start just to screw over the human and that super block bottlenecks don't occur.

If there's one thing you can balance, it's rerolling until the odds of that are low.
 
dalamb said:
Hmm... NC LIV was Peter, where I used high sea levels to reduce the land area. Did you mean LV (Huayna)? Sometime when I have the energy I'll run my script to compute land area and see what the actual numbers were.
Click to expand...

I am dumb...I thought the Huyana Capac one of course... so I meant NC55... sorry for the confusion
 
I like having the resource for the UU at least somewhat accessible, since that's a good part of the fun of playing a new civ. I played a map once with Hatty when her entire subcontinent had no horses. By the time they were available, chariots were long past obsolete. I've still never played a game where I made use of War Chariots. Other than that, making sure either copper or horse or iron is somewhere around, to make early war possible, and making sure sea powers get a coastal start is the only real changes I think are necessary to make for the player's benefit.

Changes just to make the map more interesting are fine though. I'd like to see water passages around continents to prevent a complete north to south land barrier, and have inland seas opened up to keep the AI's from being stupid and building a useless navy that can't go anywhere.
 
Friday the 13th?
I suggest a challenge. Something like Sitting Bull on a map with a Khan, Shaka, Monty and other psychos coming after poor Bull like it's a horror movie :D

And while we're on the topic, I'd very much like to see the Nobles' Club play much more than a Continents/Terra/Pangaea/RandomScript slugfest. Standard maps are good for strengthening overall skills, but playing Mehmed vs playing Gandhi on a Continents map isn't that much of a deal. I think Earth maps (KotW, anybody?) are a very effective way to master various skills - while they do take exploration out, the ridiculously huge aspect of the map and the various leaders you can apply to it (you don't always have to put Monty in Central America, you know) make it a very variable game.
 
I've had a bit of time to think over my editing policy for the last week or so, after creating Willem's map where I avoided my usual edits, and here's what I think is reasonable (given that we still want to make it Noble-friendly).
  1. Make sure we have whatever resources our UU requires, reasonably nearby.
  2. Make sure each AI has some form of strategic resource reasonably nearby -- metal or horses -- so they aren't pushovers either for us or for the other AIs.
  3. Make sure no AI has huge territory into which it can expand unopposed (TMIT's suggestion, especially relevant at higher difficulties).
  4. Pick a greater variety of map types. Huge should be rare (a noble-friendly, though Earth-starting-in-Europe is probably OK for us lower level dudes).
  5. Avoid my old favourites (desert to plain, add rivers, and the truly excessive ones like creating a goody hut economy (KK's phrase)).
What about what I did with Willem: regenerate until starting with a food resource we have as an initial tech? Or achieve the same effect by swapping us with an AI with such a food-appropriate start?
 
dalamb said:
I've had a bit of time to think over my editing policy for the last week or so, after creating Willem's map where I avoided my usual edits, and here's what I think is reasonable (given that we still want to make it Noble-friendly).
  1. Make sure we have whatever resources our UU requires, reasonably nearby.
  2. Make sure each AI has some form of strategic resource reasonably nearby -- metal or horses -- so they aren't pushovers either for us or for the other AIs.
  3. Make sure no AI has huge territory into which it can expand unopposed (TMIT's suggestion, especially relevant at higher difficulties).
  4. Pick a greater variety of map types. Huge should be rare (a noble-friendly, though Earth-starting-in-Europe is probably OK for us lower level dudes).
  5. Avoid my old favourites (desert to plain, add rivers, and the truly excessive ones like creating a goody hut economy (KK's phrase)).
What about what I did with Willem: regenerate until starting with a food resource we have as an initial tech? Or achieve the same effect by swapping us with an AI with such a food-appropriate start?
Click to expand...

This looks fine to me. I played Willem to 1290AD, and found it an interesting map and a bit more challenging starting situation than some of the others due to the distribution of resources and areas of low food.
 
Hehe... you used to add goody huts? No wonder it took me so long to delete them all in notepad :lol:
 
Here is a collection of all saves for the first round.
 

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