List of Wonder Timings

RMcD94

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
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Hi, looking for the list of Wonders by timing by AI difficulty and by speed.

Like when I should expect the GL to be built in Diety on Marathon, etc.

I have no doubt it's been done but I couldn't find it on google.
 
There is no list as far as I know, and it completely depends on which AIs are in your game, and the terrain, and the SP trees they follow. For instance, HG can be available all game if no one went Tradition. Same for Pyramids, SoZ, and many others.

There is really no need to know what the average turn is, though.

If you are contemplating building it, scan the AI cities for the skeleton building. Beyond that, use your best judgment.

On Deity, never try for GL or Stonehenge, and be v. careful about ToA. Most of the time you won't get ToA but occasionally you can chop your way to it. I did it on the DCL a couple of games ago.
 
GL basically requires you to have workers chopping for it and get Writing with a tech ruin to have a good enough chance, so unless going for OCC specifically, don't bother.

Petra is also a gamble and could pay off if you are able to get it, since it requires a different opening tech path than the standard Philosophy.
 
Sclb, don't you think it's misleading to suggest that GL is possible, even with those ruins? I've never ever seen any player get GL on Deity in an LP, even on a cooked map. It used to go T27-30, now it goes T20-25. That's 15 moves for the scout to steal 2 workers and find a writing ruin, and the workers to return and chop. I don't believe it's possible.
 
On Deity, this question is rather moot.

On this level, attempting to but failing to build any ancient & classical era wonder is likely to cost the game, and even the easiest to get in those two eras has an over 10% failure rate, making it an unacceptable risk unless willing to use the save/reload time machine.

The Leaning of Tower of Pisa would be the earliest Great Wonder to consider handbuilding on Deity under a no save-reload rule.
 
Pyramids if no one has gone Liberty and HG if no one has gone Tradition are pretty safe. Oracle unless certain usual suspects are in the game is fairly safe. Machu if no one else has the mountain.

Plus, FilthyRobot's video on the skeletons has improved my success rate by a decent factor.
 
Sclb, don't you think it's misleading to suggest that GL is possible, even with those ruins? I've never ever seen any player get GL on Deity in an LP, even on a cooked map. It used to go T27-30, now it goes T20-25. That's 15 moves for the scout to steal 2 workers and find a writing ruin, and the workers to return and chop. I don't believe it's possible.
Try Isabella ridiculousness map, posted a year ago. Walk down to the GBR, buy workers, open Tradition-Aristocracy and get a t28 GL. I have done it.
 
Out of the Ancient/Classical era bunch, Oracle is a pretty decent bet, if you attempt it after NC, failing it is not that problematic. But most of the times it's either long gone by then (Maya will get it if they are in the game), or you have a good shot. I have failed Oracle multiple times but it wasn't such a big deal.

Other than that any wonder that requires an opener which nobody went for is safe, but really only HG and Pyramids are worth it, SoZ is pointless (just conquer it) and Great Mosque is also useless on high levels.

ToA and Petra are a gamble, the payoff is good but both come with very high opportunity cost and if you miss them you are in trouble. I would only consider ToA with an OCC strategy, or at least an OCC start (I had a strategy with India, beelining the wheel to spam war elephants and building ToA while teching the wheel, but it is very risky and requires a good start). Petra is better since it comes later, but if an AI has a capital with desert you most likely wont get it. If you do however it is crazy good (provided you had the proper city for it).

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is a very weird one, sometimes it's gone by turn 40 sometimes it is still available at turn 90. It is a fairly weak wonder, and unless you have 3 quarries around it's not worth it. The 100 gold you get when you expend your GP, not when it is born so if you keep a bunch of GSs around you will get 7-800 gold late game which is not that good. Early on it's a good boost and will probably give you 4-500 gold when you need it, but I don't think it's worth the opportunity cost.

Stonehenge, Great Library and Parthenon are off limits, I think you can get Parthenon if you beeline it (but why?). Great Lighthouse is doable if you beeline it (and Suleiman is not in the game :)).

I don't know about the others in the bottom part as I never attempted them, Colossus is doable but beelining Iron Working is off most tech paths (Education, Chivalry or Machinery).

The medieval wonders are 50-50, you can get them if you beeline them, but Alhambra and Chichen Itza are particularly hard.

Renaissance and later era you can easily get them if you beeline for them, but if you're late to the party you will miss out on them (so if anyone founds WC before you have Printing Press you will most likely lose LToP).
 
Wonder times are a moot point as it depends on what is going on in the world and what went on. For example a civ pops education from a ruin and isn't next to a warmonger, the result will be GL goes very early, the same for Stonehenge. Other factors are barbs, did the AI deal with them or did they loose all their starting workers before improving their land.

I've been playing around with the Huns and on good land I can have Stonehenge and Pyramids before t50. If Attila stops warmongering he can easily wonderwhore.
 
ToA the wonder that wants me to punch the designers into the face. On paper that wonder is great 10% growth(same as the 10% growth from pantheon), but then they put it into the first tier of techs. Like srlsy WTF. The opportunity costs to get that wonder are so insane that it rarely ever has a positive expectation maybe like some crazy Spain wonderstart where you buy all your settlers.

That wonder is literally a trap "oohh look so sexy 10% growth", but then you get it and everything is so slow afterwards ...

So srsly you should never get that Wonder unless you one city or something, that Wonder should be MP only or they should've put it deeper into the techtree.
 
ToA the wonder that wants me to punch the designers into the face. On paper that wonder is great 10% growth(same as the 10% growth from pantheon)

ToA is MUCH better than growth from pantheon as it increase raw food production, while Fertility Rites applies 10% to food surplus.
 
I don't usually go for ToA but when I do, it seems that I usually get it. Perhaps you are correct and it is not worth it but I seem to see some players make it work. KB comes to mind since he usually plays that way with a 3 or 4 city Tradition style of game. It seems he is pretty good at blocking the AI and wrecking AI neighbors in the early game to be able to get a nice edge. I do not know everything these type of players do but it seems that they combo all the growth options like ToA, HG, Food TRs, Food CS's, Religion with all the Growth Boosts, Farms all over the place, Etc.

It also appears that he likes to go 1 city NC before the expansion but I am not so sure how optimal it is. Either way it seems to work for him and others, especially when they concentrate on High Pop cities pretty much winning via CV, SV, or Diplo with ease.
 
ToA is very gettable but you sacrifice units and an early expansion (so maybe decent expo spots). If there is no early threat, and you think that your expo spots will still be there for a late settle, and you have stolen workers and forests to chop, and you opened Archery either 1st or 2nd, then you will likely get it.
 
GL still has variance like any other wonder, so it is "possible" to get it on Deity under perfect conditions, but joncnunn summed up the problem: the success chance rate is so low that unless you plan on save/reload, you are only hurting yourself in trying for it.

It is early enough where if you really want to see if you can get it, you can just save/reload with little time investment, but I suppose then you could do so for any of the early wonders (SH/ToA etc.)
 
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