The Deity Challenge Line-up #13 - Indonesia

One of the more unusual games I've played. I was originally going to go CV and Order (1st to ideologies). Then I did some math and realized that I wasn't going to be able to get back to finish Tradition, therefore no faith bought GE's as a SV backup plan. Backup plan was going to be important because Morocco was a freakin beast. So, I went Freedom and hard built every science building since I had no gold until very late in the game.

It's probably easier to list what I didn't build this game: I didn't build any late wonders besides Hubble (got beat out on FP and Eiffel), built no Walls, maybe 2 Coliseums, a bunch of late Opera Houses, 2 temples, missed most National Wonders, maybe 1 Battleship and 2 subs for my Navy…….

I had way too much science, as I had so many GS that I almost reached Future Tech before launching (I usually time SS parts much better). Should have started bulbing much sooner, but it took me awhile to get up to 1000 BPT and I don't like bulbing before that. I finished with 1557 BPT, which might be a record for me. I ended up faith buying 4 GS and still had some left over.

Rome was at war with the other continents (they were alone in Autocracy) pretty much from t200 onwards. When a pretty strong Sweden asked me to DoW Rome, I joined in with my air force and a few advanced land units. I could have taken Rome out, but instead took a 50 GPT peace deal. I'm glad I did, because the beastly Morocco got Influence over me at t289 and only Rome stood in their way of CV.

Huge mistake was not taking final tenet in Freedom earlier. I miscalculated how long it would take to get SP with 8 cities, so had to wait about 5 turns until I could buy the final 2 parts on t300. This was after going full gold production for the final 25+ turns to make sure I could get to 6100 Gold to buy parts.

Morocco ended up with something like 120 million pop, which is near a record for my games. I had something like 19 million. They also had me beat in culture 65,000-35,000 and I was pushing culture pretty hard early.

Morocco ended up 88% influential over Rome, so I had a bit of time. I was also alone in Freedom, but ideological pressure of -50+ never sent me into unhappiness for more than 1 turn, and I ended up the happiest campers on the campground.

Very fun map, even if I misplayed it badly. I at least got a few more wars in than usual, even if I didn't feel like expanding borders.

I again find myself finishing Liberty instead of going back to Tradition sooner. I will say that the 4 tenets I got in Patronage really paid off, so maybe I don't regret it that much, but never getting around to building aqueducts did hurt.

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Nice job on the SV win! I know for sure that I can win SV almost every time nowadays so I am trying to get better at warmongering and Dom VC's. The only victory I hardly try for is CV. I think that will be the last type of victory I try to master but I doubt it since I find it the most boring. If I keep losing all my games playing Full Honor I may have to go back to SV though since losing many games in a row can start to take a toll on my fragile ego.

Ottomans declared war around turn eighty or so, and within 20 turns my three cities were his.

Thanks. I was really trying for something different than SV, I just didn't plan it well enough. I keep trying for different VC's also, but have often been forced to use SV backup plan.

CV, to me, is not boring. It's pretty fun from a mathematical standpoint…..there is a lot of strategy to CV……It just is pretty hard when there is a runaway AI.

As for DomV……I'm just not that good at it on Deity. I still have to go back and finish a couple of the early DCL's where I got slowed down.

Diplo, to me, can be a bit boring, but not always.

This game, I was on Morocco's bad side for a bit, and was going to lose my far-continent expos, but I voted for him instead of myself for World Leader (1 vote only) and the DoF and RA's followed shortly thereafter. Once there's a runaway, you pretty much have to go for SV, I think.

Pocatello

I founded my second city, Surabaya, right on the spices to the SW, where the more injured Kris Swordsman is standing, on turn 42. The Ottomans DOWed me on turn 59 and sacked Surabaya on turn 66 (the very turn it completed its library). I forged on with just two cities, and finished the NC, then started building more settlers. I'd been rerouting the Roman settler for dozens of turns, but then the Swedish settler also showed up. They both seemed to be intent on a spot near Mt. Fuji. To pre-empt them and get Fuji at all, I had to found New Surabaya in a non-ideal location. (Would have liked to be on river, on coast and adjacent to mtn for observatory). For all that, there was still a tile they could settle, thinking they might get Mt. Fuji. I bought a tile toward Fuji, hoping to dissuade them from trying to settle in the area. Couldn't afford Fuji itself. The Roman and Swedish settlers just stood around for a turn or two. Now the Roman one is moving off and the Swedish one is standing still.

You see my next settler. Originally, I thought of founding either where he is or one SE. But now I'm thinking I might go back to the old Surabaya site. My workers have built a number of things around it. I settled it in part because it it has bananas and I went with Sun-King as my pantheon. So it will grow fast again. But I don't like the idea that Sweden or Rome will found right in the center of my empire.

So what do you all think? Take the quick near-by spot, or once more forward settle down by the spices and bison? I'll be getting a great general soon, so will have a citidel if needed

And what are the considerations that go into your advice? Hearing that is how I think these challenges could help me improve my game.

If I can play this to a victory at all, this will be a non-ideal game because of the early major set-back. (In fact, seeing whether I can overcome that is my biggest interest in this game). I was a responsible leader; I did build as many troops as I could. Sulieman just came with too much for me to handle.

I suggest you buy Mt Fuji with gold.

Given the early setback, I'd be considering what VC's were still available to me. They probably all still are, but you are going to have to execute mid-game very well to catch up on population/production. This probably means settling several more cities, including that juicy plundered location. Spam settlers and get new cities growing ASAP to make up for the setback.

The good news, is that Indo's UA encourages you to do just this. Get those unique luxuries. They are great at keeping warmonger's a bit happier with you.

The other reason I'd be pretty much set on getting that location back is that Diplo is likely to be a good option for you at this point. If you can ally those CS surrounding you, you've got a pretty good buffer from future Ottoman/Roman raids. In my game, Vatican City kept the Romans at bay the entire game.

One comment: settling near a NW is great. It's even greater the earlier you do it. Early game, most tiles have 3-5 "points" (combo of food, prod, gold etc…). NW's will all have 6+. This advantage goes away the later in the game you get. With Mt. Fuji, those 3 culture are awesome early game. Later on….not so much (in fact I stopped working that tile late game).

(of course, you could always turtle up and SV or DiploV, but that's not very fun this early).

I'm already pretty certain I'm going to go for a science victory. I introduced myself at the end of the #12 challenge. My deity victories are always Tradition, turtle, spaceship. When I saw this map, I thought it lent itself to at least trying out Liberty (more good locations for 2nd-5th cities than I usually get). But since I'm experimenting with Social Policies, I'm going to stay in my comfort zone regarding victory conditions. Trying for different VCs is the next way I should stretch myself as a player. At some point, I'll say something about my evolution as a player that bears on these matters.

I very much get what you are saying. If you look at the DCL finisher's spreadsheet, you'll note that almost all of my victories have been Science. However, in many of those games, I tried other strategies but kept SV as a backup plan (and was probably a bit lucky to win in some cases…….looking at you Kamehameha).

I didn't make the switch to Deity until about 4 months ago. Initially, I was a bit overwhelmed at the differences. Through trial and ERROR, I figured out what I could and couldn't do (note, I had a LOT of free time for a month due to injury). I'm even warmongering again, which at first seemed daunting. Keep at it and you'll find yourself getting more experimental and successful.

Right now, I'm fooling around with my first CV through Domination on Deity. It's going well, and it is certainly improving my warmongering (hat tip to Acken and Peddroelm for their LP's on this subject. Similar tactics to what I used on Immortal, but different timing and they demonstrate it well). I'm about to take out a pop 25 Amsterdam with Great Wall (and LToP) with Xbows and Trebs, and have already built SC……should be a cakewalk after that.

In any case, if you are going SV, you'll need more pop, therefore more cities. Using your UA will help.

In your answer to Budweiser, can you sell some resources to get the money ASAP?

Sweden has just attacked me, and while I could probably fend him off, being in a war with both him and the Ottomans (and so few trading partners) is just going to divert too much of my energy from the building I would need in order to catch up. I'll gradually fall further and further behind until the military tech differential is such that I get wiped out.

It's a shame. I liked this map, and I feel like I could have done a lot more with it than I did. It was actually better than most maps I play in the number of resources nearby. I half wish I'd played my usual Tradition, turtle, spaceship.

I might play it to the bitter end. That's what I do with my own games: set some secondary objective like not being the first civ eliminated, or still being in the game when someone does win, whatever. I might not do that here. When I play on my own, I have as much time as want to finish. But here, I know that once a new game is posted on Friday, I'll want to play that.

There's one thing being responsive to the opportunities in a particular map, and another thing chasing after short-term objectives that don't really lead anywhere. Because I met Vatican City and got the early faith, I built a shrine (I usually don't bother). I did get a pantheon, but seeing the territory around me made me think Sun-King was the most advantageous, with the bananas to the SW and the citrus to the SE. But that meant forward settling on both Rome and the Ottomans, and building my second and third cities further from my cap than I usually do, and delaying settling near Mt. Fuji until much later than I should have. I in effect built my second ring of expos before my first.

It's not worth replaying because it would be too big an advantage knowing where Rome is. My early exploring was such that I never came across Rome's borders (a scout did come into my territory, but I didn't know from how far away) and I made all of my decisions based on not knowing where he was. Had I known, I would have done a lot of things differently, and even though Rome wasn't my problem in this game, I would play very differently (and better) by knowing where he is in the game.

One funny note. Rome requested a DOF on turn 95. But it wasn't one he was serious about, because he wouldn't pay me anything for my horses. So I assume he would backstab me pretty soon.

I think I'll go look at how you all did.