Trading Reputation

Another issue that I don't think it has been specifically covered above, is the trading rep loss caused by destruction of the AI civilisation that you have a gpt trade with.

I used to make large gpt payments to AI civilisations on the brink of destruction in return for technology, so as to try and save a lot of money (i.e. I might only need to make 1 or 2 payments out of the 20). However I have stopped doing this as when such an AI is destroyed I suffered a large trading rep loss.

A way round suffering such rep loss is to keep the ailing AI alive by giving them one of your cities for free. If you have a city you can give them then you should consider first selling all its infrastructure and pillaging all its land improvements (Just to ensure it remains weak. I have had a case of doing this and then finding that another one of my cities culturally flipped to the "weaker" civilisation). You then should ensure you get a ROP with it and station defensive troops all around the city (on all 8 tiles and perhaps 2 or 3 troops per tile) so that the other AI civs can not destroy this last city.

Then you can wait and milk the AI (whose city you have surrounded) for all the technology it has (I am playing in Deity level so I am always behind in technology). Once the ailing AI has nothing more to give you, wait until the ROP is over and then destroy it.

That tactic was demonstrated superbly in 'Sid Vicious and the Magnificent 7+1' aside from good demonstration of that tactic it is also a terrific read about a truly incredible game, I would recommend it to anyone who is yet to read it.

Since Civ4 is out, I know few come back to these threads, but I'm new here, and wish to weigh in on this. I'm disabled, so have lots of time. I have played each C3C dozens of times, a few times for each nation. Specific experiences: Middle Ages. I trade with Burgundy via sea route at beginning of game. 5 turns later they lose their city w/harbor. My rep is trashed. I declare war while I have a unit in my victim's territory. I have violated RoP, even though I have no RoP. I have a MA, but make peace before 20 turns are up. Rep is trashed. If the MA included RoP, then I have violated RoP. If trade was involved, hten I broke trade agreement, as trade deal was tied to MA. No reason for the trade to stop, but it does because it's tied to MA. I have to make goods exchange separately, but sometimes, it is the only way to get the AI nation to ally with me. Essentially, I can never trade for other than gpt, no matter how careful I am, without getting my rep trashed, because the AI comes after me right away, and finds ways to break up the trade route, and it is always my fault. The only exception to this is if I trade with an immediate neighbor. I check every turn to see if trades are still functioning. I save every turn and reload to verify the cause of any break. I have logged more time at C3C than probably anyone, and I can say with authority, that unless the AI nation with whom you are trading declares war on you, your rep gets screwed.

What if you're selling a tech to an AI for gpt and YOU declare on the AI? Anyone have any actual memory of declaring on the AI while still getting gpt from the AI and not getting a reputation hit?

I did a quick test on a game after I had launched the spaceship and it seems you won't get a reputation hit. Anyone else that can confirm this for me?

As far as I know that's the case. You only get a rep hit if you are paying per-turn gold or resources to the AI and that deal is ended prematurely. Note that a deal can be ended by a trade route breakage, as well as a declaration of war by either party. I've lost per-turn trading reputation simply by selling a luxury to an AI and having the trade route broken by a barb galley.

Spoonwood said:

Anyone have any actual memory of declaring on the AI while still getting gpt from the AI and not getting a reputation hit?

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I tested this once, after Own suggested doing such a thing with the Dutch in 'new succession game'. Yes, if you're not giving anything from your side, you can safely declare on that AI without any fear for your reputation. I didn't know it before either.

Thanks for the responses guys!

Vol said:

So if your reputation is broken, you can artifically recover it by getting all nations to go to war with the civ you offended. But, if that civ is ever eliminated, everyone will go back to treating you with broken reputation.

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It does however seem to work to destroy the civ before they get contact with any other civs than you. I've been alone on an island with Russia, and I gpt-raped them a long time ago. This turn England showed up, and Russia haven't seen them. I can get a good gpt deal with England - 38 gpt for Drama - both before and after I kill Russia (I'm already standing outside their last city, I was about to finish them off).

Clean rep!

Yes you can break your rep with civ A and if civ A is eliminated, before civ A mets otherss, no one will know of you rep issue. We called it Arian Decpetion years ago.

How can a dead Civ tell another about you're trashed rep, it's actually quite logical, however, I used to not think so.

Germany just screwed me on 25gpt when Iroquis convinced them to military alliance up on me (I wonder how much they payed them). When this happens I comfort myself with that at least they will have trouble making future deals with other AI civs.

Now my question: Am I wrong? Anyone have insight in the inner workings of AI to AI trade? Maybe they don't even care about reputation between them? They cheat in other ways, so why not in this.

It would also be good to know from a strategic point of view, because if AI:s have reputation between them, you could deliberately try to destroy reputations, to generally slow down technology advance!

If anyone has seen this already being discussed somewhere, could you please point me to the right thread? I can't seem to search for "AI trade" or "AI reputation" because AI is removed for being to short.

Happy Holidays.

Alright, time for a question!

Currently I'm playing the Age of Imperialism mod as Japan; I have the entire world against the United States and the British Empire. Now, once I finish off the US West Coast, I'm going to have to send my fleet around South America to get to the East; I would prefer to use the Panama Canal.

Unfortunately, the owners of Panama have an alliance with me for about 17 more turns. So my question is: will I incur a rep hit if I keep hitting them with espionage missions until they declare war on me? As I recall, the AI holds a war triggered by espionage against you since you provoked it.

Peace treaty, Right of Passage and Trade Embargo are all rep-risky.

I've also tried to cut off my capital after signing a "luxury for luxury" deal and it did not trash my reputation.