Best leader your country never had

Hygro said:

Gore's better than that, but also to add to your list is our very own governor when he ran for president a few times.

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Ah Governor Moonbeam. Yeah forgot about him. I really like him alot. Although he has vetoed some legislation I really wanted...he has apparently hardened in his old age.

Gore has his good qualities, he is good on the environment and so on... I just mean that Bush was so bad that basically anyone from the other ticket would have been better.

As far as why I don't admire him, I don't admire Gore for the same reasons I don't admire Clinton. They are big money centrists who successfully shifted the democratic party way to the center in the late 80's and 90's. This shift was intentional and planned in the wake of Dukakis and Mondale... who I should add to my list! This "new" democratic party that chases big wall street money and champions pro big business reforms was instrumental (under Clinton) in eliminating a slew of financial regulations and social safety nets and other treaties and laws that are in many ways antithetical to the "old" democratic party. You might have seen it already but this very long and excellent article explains the history very well, from my sad, lonely left-wing progressive perspective.

I suppose it is debatable whether I should just accept this deal with the devil as the only way to beat the GOP in the modern era, but it just doesn't sit well with me. You can draw a straight line from my grumbling and grudging acceptance of Clinton in the 90's to my very similar grudging and grumbling votes (and campaigning in swing states) for Obama in the modern day.

illram said:

Ah Governor Moonbeam. Yeah forgot about him. I really like him alot. Although he has vetoed some legislation I really wanted...he has apparently hardened in his old age.

Gore has his good qualities, he is good on the environment and so on... I just mean that Bush was so bad that basically anyone from the other ticket would have been better.

As far as why I don't admire him, I don't admire Gore for the same reasons I don't admire Clinton. They are big money centrists who successfully shifted the democratic party way to the center in the late 80's and 90's. This shift was intentional and planned in the wake of Dukakis and Mondale... who I should add to my list! This "new" democratic party that chases big wall street money and champions pro big business reforms was instrumental (under Clinton) in eliminating a slew of financial regulations and social safety nets and other treaties and laws that are in many ways antithetical to the "old" democratic party. You might have seen it already but this very long and excellent article explains the history very well, from my sad, lonely left-wing progressive perspective.

I suppose it is debatable whether I should just accept this deal with the devil as the only way to beat the GOP in the modern era, but it just doesn't sit well with me. You can draw a straight line from my grumbling and grudging acceptance of Clinton in the 90's to my very similar grudging and grumbling votes (and campaigning in swing states) for Obama in the modern day.

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As a moderate republican turned moderate democrat you have my sympathy. Maybe you guys out on the left fringe are just easier to outnumber, or maybe you are more rational about 'dealing with the moderate devils', but I can tell you that you are just whole leagues more pleasant to share a political party with than the right (ie lunatic) fringe ever was.

I'm drawing a bit of a blank in relation to politicians during my lifetime. Perhaps because there's hardly any room for Australian politicians to express anything other than the party line. Assuming we're talking about people who legitimately had a chance of being leader, Herb Evatt and Lionel Murphy spring to mind.

Evatt was a Labor member of the NSW Parliament for a few years before being appointed a Justice of the High Court in 1930, where he sat for almost a decade. He's regarded as being a jurist of the highest quality, and one of the best Australian equity judges, but he quit once the war started, ran for the Australian Parliament and was the Foreign Minister and Attorney-General through the war and until 1949 (when Labor lost power). During this time he was one of the founders of the UN and the President of the General Assembly for a couple of years. Apparently he helped draft the UN Declaration of Human Rights. When the Labor leader (and former PM) Chifley died in 1951, Evatt became Leader of the Opposition. Unfortunately, the Labor party disintegrated under his leadership, with the Democratic Labor Party splitting off because they thought the party had become too communist-friendly. Labor wouldn't regain power until 1972. After losing his third straight election in 1958, he was appointed by the NSW Labor government as Chief Justice of NSW. During his two years in that position, it was largely thought that he'd lost a lot of his mental faculties, so it was not the most dignified end to his career. He died in 1965.

Lionel Murphy was also a federal Labor politician, who was appointed Attorney-General when Labor finally did win power again in 1972 under Gough Whitlam. In 1975 Whitlam appointed him as a Justice of the High Court, where he sat until his premature death in 1986. The last year of his life was marred by scandal, though in the end he was cleared (and a Parliamentary Commission to investigate if there were any grounds for his removal never went ahead). He was possibly the most active proponent of human rights in the High Court's history, and although he was often dissenting, helped in the establishment of an increased rights focus which has been a feature of the Court ever since.

Michael Kirby would be another suggestion; he's never been a politician, but would probably be one of the top candidates for Governor-General in future.

Me.

I may or may not be successful in directly achieving things (probably not). But I think I could mark public and privat consciousness in a very meaningful way. I would tear down those walls of ideology, illusion and comfortable bliss of ignorance and rub the truth into their faces until I would be back-stapped. But the "damage" would already be done.

Uh... Tommy Douglas, I guess

Is it even possible to effectively lead a country of hundreds of millions of people with a huge economy and military without pissing off tens of millions?

It seems that no matter what, you're going to fail to please and represent everyone. So good leadership, at least on a large scale, is impossible. Please the capitalists, you'll anger the Marxists. Protect the environment, you'll anger the industrialists and the right. You can't win. Ever.

As for "least bad" leaders of the US, none come to mind that would have been both willing and able to achieve all important goals.

Well, that's only if you characterize good leadership as pleasing everyone. A good leader knows what has to be done and does it, regardless if it is the popular choice or not.

Also, props to Terxpahseyton for the "me" answer! That's as beautifully arrogant as me wanting to replace the US Supreme Court with, well, me.

For what it is worth I don't find it that unlikely that a supreme VRWC court would do a better job. Because those that actually get do the job seem be bipartisan hacks. So I am not convinced the bar is that high to begin with. Basically the same reason why I think I should be the leader (though I freely admit I likely wouldn't be one for all too long - after all mastering the game of making a political career is exactly what I don't even aspire to be proficient in).

Robert Kennedy

Jesus, Quackers. Enoch Powell? Might as well go for broke and add Oswald Mosley to the "honorable mention" category.

In no particular order: Alexander Hamilton, Robert Kennedy, Nelson Rockefeller, Colin Powell, Daniel Webster, Huey Long

Honorable mention, I guess, to Adlai Stevenson.

President Whitemore from Independence Day. Now there's leadership.

Goodfella said:

President Whitemore from Independence Day. Now there's leadership.

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dude if you're gonna go for fake presidents you have to go with black bush. the united states of SPACE.

Oh man, Bartlett, except without the whole "lied to the public about debilitating illness" thing.

Actually scratch that. Sam Seaborne. He has corporate experience, is well connected, AND hopelessly idealistic. Perfect!

Jack Layton.

Jaromir Jagr.

A. H. Nasution. Phil Goff. Malcolm Turnbull.

for France, De Gaulle or Mendes France, all other french president were idiots (Mitterand is almost OK). For Tunisia, Bourguiba with no hesitation.

HannibalBarka said:

for France, De Gaulle or Mendes France, all other french president were idiots (Mitterand is almost OK). For Tunisia, Bourguiba with no hesitation.

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The OP means leaders that haven't come to power though had/have a shot at doing so. Such as Jean-Marie Le Pen, for instance...

Kaiserguard said:

The OP means leaders that haven't come to power though had/have a shot at doing so. Such as Jean-Marie Le Pen, for instance...

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God forbid
Jean Marie Lepen is good to be in the opposition but he has nothing to offer to solve France problems. Its party is a mix of antis: anti-europe, anti-semite, anti-muslims, anti-immigration, anti-civil servant, anti-gay, etc. You don't lead being just anti.
AMong french politician, Alain Madelin than. I do not necessarily share his economic very liberal views, but he at least had balls and really wanted to be elected to do what he thinks was right and not wanted to think what could get him elected.