Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Thanks God-Empire (-_-)

Quick question. If you go to war early but haven't met every civ yet, do you still get a penalty if a new civ finds you in the process of taking a city?

Only if it's the hoy city of their state religion and you raze it.

If you declare war on a civ and there are hidden civs that were pleased or friendly with them, you will still get a diplo penalty with the new civs once you meet them, if that was the question.

Also, I think you can raze holy cities without any extra penalty if they were so small that they got automatically razed (giving no choice), though I'm not entirely sure. Though you do get the penalty from the target civ. Actually, when does razing a holy city give a penalty and to which relations?

What are the exact mechanics behind how much beakers bulbing a tech gives?

Imp. Knoedel said:

What are the exact mechanics behind how much beakers bulbing a tech gives?

Click to expand...

It's dependant on a base value that gets modified by the population count of your empire. Scientist bulbs in addition have 1.5 times the value of all other bulbs.
Also, bulbs on smaller maps are more powerful than on larger maps.

Maybe search for Tachy's game-mechanics thread, there should be a formula.

I switched to representation and my scientists still produce +6 beakers instead of +9. On the other hand I received happiness bonus. Where is the problem?

Tuscarora87 said:

I switched to representation and my scientists still produce +6 beakers instead of +9. On the other hand I received happiness bonus. Where is the problem?

Click to expand...

There is no problem. Rep Scientists give you 6 beakers. Normally 3 beakers. Other specialists get +3 beakers as well, but artists and spies have +1 normally, so they become +4.

You might be thinking of a settled Great Scientist. That provides +9 beakers with Rep

Tuscarora87 said:

I switched to representation and my scientists still produce +6 beakers instead of +9. On the other hand I received happiness bonus. Where is the problem?

Click to expand...

... Reread what you just posted and think long and hard about it, maybe it'll come to you.

Yes, yes I realized it after.... well, after a long and hard thinking.

I haven't played Civ4 for a year and forgot some things. What confused me the most is data in Civilopedia: scientists +6; this probably changed after I switched to Representation.

I've replaced normal and great scientists, that's for sure.

Anyway, thanks for your replies. But I have several more questions.

1) What is the most effective number of settled great generals in one city?

2) "Early astronomy" (Monarch) (semi isolated). If I go through Liberalism, I get it around 1000 AD. But getting Astro with Liberalism... it isn't "early Astro" anymore, I get ships (and still wait centuries for proper invasion) and better routes for 100 or so years. But when I bulb southern path (for example as Dutch), I can get Astro in +-400 AD, even before (with philosophical), so I benefit from it for several centuries. And one can still win liberalism race. What are your thoughts?

3) Where to settle academy? In your cottage city or in GP farm? (hybrid) I usually see players build their academy in which ever city has highest beakers output at the moment (capital). Better is to have a bonus now then later?

4) If your capital is GP farm, will you run Bureaucracy anyway? Just for hammers boost? Trade routes commerce benefit from Bureaucracy ? (I believe, yes)

5) Can you get -guerrilla 2- or even -guerrilla 3- drafted Celtic musketmen? Charismatic. With a dun and a barrack? +Theocracy? + Settled GG?

6) How to get Steel form Liberalism? By getting Printing Press first? Then bulbing Chemistry?

1. There is no most effective number. You want to spend your GGs for as many Supermedics as you have operational Stacks of Doom (SoDs) , and all additional GGs can either be very good for your HE-city (advised) or you can split them amongst your highest production cities (not advised) or, if you already have Military Science, build Military Academies (greatly advised) .

2. Astro Bulb > Lib Astro. It's as simple as that. Simply skip everything that unlocks Paper, and you can bulb the "southern" path.

3. Academies give the most benefit, if they're settled in a heavily cottaged city, that is the capital simultaniously to have the Bureaucracy (Buro) bonus. I've never even considered to build an Academy in the GP-Farm.
Better than an Academy can btw. be an Education bulb, if you then get Oxford so much earlier, that it outweighs the Academy. Of course, then you should still build an Academy, i. e. with your 2nd GS.

4. My capital is never the main GP-Farm. It's possible, that my capital will generate the first GS and maybe a GE for Mining Inc. later, but I always cottage my capital to make the most out of Buro.

5.1 Duns obsolete with Rifling, so be aware of that.

5.2 You can get Guerilla II easily with Barracks + Theo + Dun. Guerilla III is possible with 2 additional GGs, so not really that efficient, but maybe for the Globe city.

6. Iirc, Steel does not need Printing Press, neither does Chemistry. Simply research Chemistry and then Lib, and you can Lib -> Steel.
Far easier btw. (and usually as strong) is Lib -> Rifling btw.. Simply bulb Printing Press, research Replaceable Parts and you can Lib -> Rifling. Rifles with Spy-revolts beat everything, if you got the numbers, you can even beat Infantries with it. Greatest advantage of Rifling is, that you can 1-pop-draft the units with Nationhood, which is at least 2.5 times more effective than whipping Cannons.

Tuscarora87 said:

1) What is the most effective number of settled great generals in one city?

Click to expand...

Depends what you are trying to do, and your other XP bonuses. My aim is to have a couple of cities producing 10 XP units. That might require only 1 settled GG in some circumstances, and in others 2, 3, or even 4.

If you are Charismatic or Protective and shooting for a particular promotion the number may vary.

3) Where to settle academy? In your cottage city or in GP farm? (hybrid) I usually see players build their academy in which ever city has highest beakers output at the moment (capital). Better is to have a bonus now then later?

Click to expand...

Whichever city has the highest beaker output IMO. Usually that's the capital. If your capital is also your GP farm it can sometimes make sense to build another academy in your best cottage city.

Now is almost always better than later, in Civ4.

4) If your capital is GP farm, will you run Bureaucracy anyway? Just for hammers boost? Trade routes commerce benefit from Bureaucracy ? (I believe, yes)

Click to expand...

Yes, because the alternatives are usually pretty lousy. And you can always move your capital.

Why is it that sometimes you cannot build a palace in a city? Once I wanted to move my capitol, but the palace was not available in the list. I also checked that the city did not contain 2 national wonders, if that counts.

Guys, thank you for your answers.

@Seraiel

1) Yes, I see many people prioritize converting their initial GGs to Supermedics.
2) This clarifies a lot .
3) Very insightful comment. One more question: Do you burn more then one scientist on Education?
4) I pretty often use my capital for at least 1st or 2nd GP. What to do with food heavy capitals (and desert all around); more extremely, what to do with coastal capital with 3 crabs and 2 fishes? Cottage them anyway, or specialists?
5) Yes, I know Duns obsolete with Rifling, but I'm patiently trying to find some ways to use it, even if it's silly one.
6) So, that's the way?! I've always hoped for an easy Chemistry bulb. But it seems, it's hard one. Anyhow, I'll try to get Rifles from Lib for the first time. Will AI trade Nationhood easily (while I'm heading for Rifles) (I usually play with 'no trade brokering')?

@6K Man

Is it lazyness or something else, I don't remember when I moved my capital last time. I've thought 6 courthouses are required for doing that. But now I checked, and you only need 160 hammers. Nice.

---

Four more (blitz) questions:

a) What to build earlier: Great Library or National Epic. I often find myself building NE first (for 100%) and then GL. Is this stupid? I delay my tech trade and I may even loose a wonder race. Those 2 scientists produce 6 GPP (+2 wonder itself) which is usually 100% boost over your 2 initial library scientists and the Pyramid.

b) Forumers talk about REXing. I usually go for 6 or 7 cities which are enough for my (warmonger) plans. What are the benefits of 8+ early spammed cities. (Monarch or +)

c) What to do when you are boxed in a corner (space for 3-4 cities)? No horses and Hammurabi nearest one?

d) Is medieval warfare in a disrepute as really barren? Do any experienced players wage (effective or fun) wars it that age? What's the formula? Lot of trebuchets? What are knights good for?

civbone said:

Why is it that sometimes you cannot build a palace in a city? Once I wanted to move my capitol, but the palace was not available in the list. I also checked that the city did not contain 2 national wonders, if that counts.

Click to expand...

I think you need at least 6 cities (standard map).

Tuscarora87 said:

3) Very insightful comment. One more question: Do you burn more then one scientist on Education?
4) I pretty often use my capital for at least 1st or 2nd GP. What to do with heavy food capitals (and desert all around); more extremely, what to do with coastal capital with 3 crabs and 2 fishes? Cottage them anyway, or specialists?
5) Yes, I know Duns obsolete with Rifling, but I'm patiently trying to find some ways to use it, even if it's silly one.
6) So, that's the way?! I've always hoped for an easy Chemistry bulb. But it seems, it's hard one. Anyhow, I'll try to get Rifles from Lib for the first time. Will AI trade Nationhood easily (while I'm heading for Rifles) (I usually play with 'no trade brokering')?

a) What to build earlier: Great Library or National Epic. I often find myself building NE first (for 100%) and then GL. Is this stupid? I delay my tech trade and I may even loose a wonder race. Those 2 scientists produce 6 GPP (+2 wonder itself) which is usually 100% boost over your 2 initial library scientists and the Pyramid.

b) Forumers talk about REXing. I usually go for 6 or 7 cities which are enough for my (warmonger) plans. What are the benefits of 8+ early spammed cities. (Monarch or +)

c) What to do when you are boxed in a corner (space for 3-4 cities)? No horses and Hammurabi nearest one?

d) Is medieval warfare in a disrepute as really barren? Do any experienced players wage (effective or fun) wars it that age? What's the formula? Lot of trebuchets? What are knights good for?

Click to expand...

3. I usually only create 1 Great Scientist until Education, because I play for HoF, so my usual start has at least 1 Gold + a nice river to cottage. By that, I got so much research, that I reach Education very early, leaving only room for 1 GS. I would burn 2, if I was playing more food-heavy starts with less commerce.

4. Specialists, and move the palace.

5. Go to war early, Gallic Warriors are quite nice, once they got Guerrilla III!

6. I believe, there is no way to bulb Chemistry without having PP first.

a) Great Library is good, when you need Great Scientists. I often prioritize it over the NE, also because it's a very cheap Wonder with Marble. I even sometimes try to build it without Marble, just because it's so good.

b) I sometimes even only settle 1-3 cities and then go for a rush. If you rush very early, you only need a strong capital, even the 2nd city is already superflous, but sometimes one needs 2 cities to get Horses, and 3 cities is more like a later rush (Elepult i. e.) .

c) Go for a Sword-rush or if you got Ivory, go Elepult. With catapults, it basically doesn't matter what units you have to clean up. If you are completely without strategics, LB-rush is your only chance imho.

d) I often wage medieval wars, usually with CR-Maces + Trebs. Sometimes though, I go for Knights only. One needs a lot of them to be successful, but if one had a really good HA-rush in the beginning, one can sometimes win the game by them.
Cuirrassiers is probably easier though, requires no rush and one needs a lot less units. With bulbs, Cuirrassiers can usually also be nearly reached in the same time as Knights.

civbone said:

Why is it that sometimes you cannot build a palace in a city? Once I wanted to move my capitol, but the palace was not available in the list. I also checked that the city did not contain 2 national wonders, if that counts.

Click to expand...

If you had Forbidden Palace or Versailles in the city then the city was already flagged as "Government Center" and there can be only one of those in a city (marked by a silver star). Palace is "Government Center".

Yeah, key to Celts is getting those Gallics going early then upgrade them to Rifles. GIIICR+ Rifles rock. That is one use for extra GGs. Attach em to your super Gallics for free upgrades.

Super medics are #1 use for GGs for me though. If I have at least one of them or two, I will often save GGs and keep with my stack for health upgrades during battle..attach to a small injured stack for promos and get some health. This can be a live saver. I prefer those approaches to settling them

Well, on higher levels you pretty much want to get Great Library rockin' asap.

Seraiel said:

3. I usually only create 1 Great Scientist until Education, because I play for HoF, so my usual start has at least 1 Gold + a nice river to cottage. By that, I got so much research, that I reach Education very early, leaving only room for 1 GS. I would burn 2, if I was playing more food-heavy starts with less commerce.

Click to expand...

So in all your games you start with a gold mine and a nice cottagable city? Why is that?

civbone said:

So in all your games you start with a gold mine and a nice cottagable city? Why is that?

Click to expand...

I explained that already. I play for the HoF, so I don't compete against AIs, but against humans. It doesn't make sense to play a weak start, when the person who's game one wants to beat had 3 Food and 2 Gold. Hof gamers also have a tool named "Mapfinder" , which generates maps while one is not at the PC, and it saves the starts which you defined as worthy, so i. e. "save all 2 Gold starts" . I understand, that some find it hard to comprehend, we (HoF-players) get a lot of hate for not playing random maps, but that's only because people don't understand what I wrote in the first sentence.