PH13: The Book and the Hammer

:gotit:

I'll look at the save in some time and post more detailed comments - some minor points: We'll definitely need our next couple of GSs to bulb us to lib. I don't know how close the AIs are, we'll eventually need a GS for lib. This means we'll need compass (if we don't have it) and NO MACHINERY. I think we should keep this option open.

good turns, LK ~ i agree w/you on the GS. I don't think bulbing Philo, at this point, is worth it. I think it's going to be a real struggle to get to Lib before Gandhi, but that's just my humble opinion. I would also rather not waste the GS on Paper as we can get more beakers from it in Educ.

will take a look at the save and get more specific.

Roster
pholkhero >> on deck
Quotey
Kodii
R_rolo
LKendter >> just played
Mystyfly >> UP NOW

My comments: I think we'll be first to liberalism without stuff like bulbing paper. But I still want to keep the option of bulbing lib open. We can adopt judaism and spread it around a bit.Also we need to get our GPFarm going so I don't see the point in a forge in Berlin. I'll finish the Aqueduct there and start the NE, then I'll switch to CS + OR. I'll also try to build some units as well as the settler for that coastal spot still unsettled.

Just to be safe: Are we allowed to raze one of Gandhis cities?

BTW good call on building the parth in essen, Lee.

I'll wait for pholks comments before playing as there have been no other opinions.

once they declare on us, we can do anything we want, up to and including elimination and full annexation of their cities. We just can't be the aggressor

~ maybe forge for the extra happy?

we also need to think about spreading our farms all around and running some real scientists for a while. In my mind, i don't want to hit the Ind Age until AssLine where we can build our AssPlants and really get some engineers working. [in my mind, we'd go right for Combustion and Industrialism right after for Panzers, then Flight > Radio for Bombers ]

I had an old save yesterday when i loaded up civ, so i'll take a look at the right one later today and post more, esp re: Heroic Epic.

Played 17 turns, 860AD - 1100AD

Inherited Turn
Switch research to CS
Switch Berlin to the nearly completed aqueduct (we don't really need atm). Berlin must build the NE! No stupid forge. We have the happiness (and some calendar ressources not connected yet)

(2) 900AD
I do some emergency whipping at Essen as an indian stack appears.

(3) 920AD
Get a GS at Berlin where he is settled.
Switch to OR and CS

(5) 960AD
Pillage Ghandis horses
Liz DOWs Sury
Toku DOWs Liz (Join war vs liz if the AI comes asking!!)


(6) 980AD
CS in
Beg 80g from Sury
AC wants Music which I give him


(9) 1020AD
Liz wants CS (no)


Paper in > Philo (only at 0%)
Fail to spread J at Berlin
Sell literature to Toku. May he spend it on unit upgrades


(10) 1030AD
Spread J at Berlin

(11) 1040AD
Liz wants us to screw our diplomacy with toku


Louis builds the AWat (meaning he now trades philo)

(12) 1050AD
Buy philo



It looks as if I forgot to switch to Judaism


Spread J at Dortmund

(15) 1080AD
Louis thinks he gets CS for free - I don't


ATTENTION: Louis is now in WHEOOH But at least he hasn't maces (yet).

(16) 1090AD
Liz comes by once again and wants us to stop our trades with the Khmer (no)
$

(17) 1100AD
This very eventful turn started with a RE:


I picked the 500EPs but didn't get the diplo hit (yay)
We get a GS (@Munich since Berlin has been busy building the NE), bulbs 1650 beakers of edu (I say do it)


Make this deal (hoping to improve relations)


NE finishes @ Berlin, rehire our scientists
Spread J at Frankfurt

---

Settler is due in 1 in cologne
Gandhi still wants Essen for peace


He hasn't shown much activity, merely bombarding Essen. I have 1 spear + 1 axe on a hill near the horses, one more spear and axe on the way. I think we can stay at war but aren't likely to achieve anything. BTW Gandhi now shows his first maces so be careful. Essen currently has 2lbows, 2 axes and a sword so should be fine.

Louis doesn't like us anymore, partially because of his stupid demands and of us adopting judaism. I'm pretty sure he'll DOW us. But I don't expect many units, he spent his hammers on wonders as usual and is probabely busy building the USak.


I suggest making this deal:


Sorry guys for this weedy play. At least I didn't screw completely, we're still in nice shape. Also I know I'm a bit late...

I used most workers for chain-irrigating (desperately needed). Essen lacks lots of improvements but is threatened so I'd rather improve the other cities first.

Try to spread J to the cities still lacking it. One missionary is ready to convert the last (and still unfounded) city.

View attachment PH13 AD-1100.CivBeyondSwordSave

mystyfly said:

Played 17 turns, 860AD - 1100AD
Switch Berlin to the nearly completed aqueduct (we don't really need atm). Berlin must build the NE! No stupid forge. We have the happiness (and some calendar resources not connected yet)

Click to expand...

Happiness???? The forge was for production if we switch to the hills. I agree we don't need the aqueduct. The only reason it was there was I inherited it with enough shields that I didn't want to throw them away.

Why does our GPFarm need production?

The only buildings the city needs now is happiness from time to time (and it's no issue atm) as well as an university which we produce with double speed. Also, the forge adds unhealthiness which we don't want in a big city. BTW pholk suggested that the forge might have been in the queue for happiness.

In any normal game, I would think a GPFarm needs at least some production to get in the bldgs to run specialists, but in this game, where we're focusing on GSs for now, Caste System is all we ever need for running Sci's.

good turns, Mysty. If we really have a chance at Lib, I say let's take it and bulb for Educ. whatever happened to the stack Gandhi appeared with early in the set? wiped out, still hanging around??

it's been awhile since i've loaded the save, so i'll post more once i do. in any case, i've got it.

Roster
pholkhero >> UP NOW
Quotey >> on deck
Kodii
R_rolo
LKendter
Mystyfly >> just played

good turns, Mysty. If we really have a chance at Lib, I say let's take it and bulb for Educ. whatever happened to the stack Gandhi appeared with early in the set? wiped out, still hanging around??

Click to expand...

The stack was smth like 2chariots 2swords 4cats.
They've been bombarding all my set but retreated for one turn or so Walls are still not completely bombarded down. Now there are a bit more units approaching but shouldn't be an issue (some maces). But it WILL become an issue when louis' units join the fun...

I had to play an extremely short as I was running low on time earlier tonight, and my son was freakin’ out. Played until Lib ~

I started off by checking out our cities; I hired an extra scientist in a couple cities. I also notice that we have few production cities: Hamburg, Cologne, and Essen will be nice when we can improve it, the Heroic Epic should go here. I notice that Frankfurt is building a sword, but why? one grass hill??

1120 ad, and Liz comes by for a visit:


I took it, thinking we could sure use Machinery in our struggle, and figuring we have everything well wrapped up for Liberalism.

With our settler, too, I founded our last city we dotted out:


We also spread Judaism to two cities, and only Essen remains unfaithful. Another GS was born. I think we should use this one for a GAge ~ might be nice for the empire.

In 1150 ad, AC came by:


Figuring it was just a matter of time before Louis declared, I took the bonus with Auggie.

3 turns later, it got real interesting for us.


Here’s his army.


And, to make things more fun I accepted this proposal:


We also helped put Auggie in the APalace:


On the IT, France suicided against the gates of Essen, losing all units in the attempt. Gandhi still has a small stack moving back and forth towards Essen, sometimes bombarding, sometimes not. Very odd. He still won’t take anything less than Essen for peace.

Here’s where my son started really crying:



So I called it quits. At war with 3, but no troops on our lands. There’s also an English archer that needs to be cleaned up in the NW.

I started on Engineering next for the trebs and road bonus.

Roster
pholkhero >> just played
Quotey >> UP NOW
Kodii >> on deck
R_rolo
LKendter
Mystyfly

Very nice, now this game really gets interesting

I don't think eng is a good idea. We don't need trebs atm as we don't really have a SOD and movement in our tiny empire shouldn't be that much of an issue.
Gunpowder probabely?

We can use our GS for PP/chemistry. We can go on a rampage with grens later, take louis' (OURS) horse city and raze some Gandhi cities. I'm not much of a fan of GAs when using SE / with a "small" empire.

Taj already queued up somewhere?

Engineering is on the way to Chemistry (Eng + Gunpowder) and the road movement is useful.

I think the first Industrial Age tech is Steam Power (Reveals coal, enables Ironclads I think, leads to Railroads). We could shoot for Assembly Line. I think that needs Corporation and something.

AL needs Steam Power (RP + Chem) + Corporations (eco + const).

i was torn btwn Eng and Gunpowder, but i think if we're going on the offensive anywhere, we WILL need trebs (incidentally, i built our first siege units during my set). If we're going to wait for Grens, we'll need Eng anyway as a prereq. I'd also not want to raze cities. As we have to win by Dom, i'd rather keep them for now.

no GAge is fine with me. I'm not up on all the "best times" for them so I'll take others' opinions on the matter. I just hit them when they "feel" right (which is why i only play
on monarch ). PP, though, doesn't really help us now with our lack of cottages, etc.

Taj is NOT started ~ honestly, slipped my mind atm. Get that queued up ~ maybe Hamburg (?? the stone city). also, i finally stuck our workers in the Great Jungles up north for farming/mining. we could use a couple more to help out. Man, i can't wait until essen gets online. That city is going to be a prod powerhouse.

finally, re: endgame ~ we're going to have a lot of warring to do once the Ind era starts (though we don't have to declare as soon as we hit it; just take off our scientists). I'm thinking we should make fair use of capitulation. And remember, too ~ we have to launch our SS and THEN win by Dom

On the golden age question:
I would prefer to burn our first artist to start a GA. Unless playing for a cultural victory I rarely find a use for them.

We can time our DOM win by withholding the capitulation / capitulate several AIs (whose cities are still theirs ) at the same time.

mystyfly said:

We can time our DOM win by withholding the capitulation / capitulate several AIs (whose cities are still theirs ) at the same time.

Click to expand...

How dare you? That is profondely dishonest, low-level, and very close of cheating....

I like it.

Well, with the wars that we have on hands , we don't need to DOW anyone to get a really decent empire.... So why not?

pholkhero said:

Roster
pholkhero >> just played
Quotey >> UP NOW
Kodii >> on deck
R_rolo
LKendter
Mystyfly

Click to expand...

Quotey said:

Engineering is on the way to Chemistry (Eng + Gunpowder) and the road movement is useful.

I think the first Industrial Age tech is Steam Power (Reveals coal, enables Ironclads I think, leads to Railroads). We could shoot for Assembly Line. I think that needs Corporation and something.

Click to expand...

Is there a got it in there somewhere?
I am curious about the next set...

Oh, apologies. Pretend it was a got it. Not to self: Pay attention to roster.

Got 3 more Scientists, Augustus declared on Louis, York was captured by Suryavarman, Toku made peace with Liz, Rennaisance music is decent imho.

Gandhi's stack was destroyed.

We have a Great General hanging around in Hamburg. Suggest settling in Cologne.

We have a Great Spy hangging around in Frankfurt. Suggest Infiltration of Liz, to steal Guilds and Banking.

As soon as Eng finished I realised you also need Gunpowder for Chemistry. I gave AC Education to try and improve relations to Friendly.

Weed move of the set. It did not, infact, work.

Bulbs: Printing Press (+3t or research), Chemistry (used 2 scientists- maybe a weed move, but we had 3 scientists hanging around).

Realatively uninteresting set.

Suggest the GS Infiltartes Liz, GG Settled in Cologne, GS for a Golden Age. The GS will bulb Scientific Method, we DO NOT want this as it will obsolete the GL and Parthenon. Research set on Steel, but we might want to go for Guilds -> Banking -> RP.