3.15 Specialists give only GPPs

Ahriman · Mar 15, 2014

In 3.15 specialists seem to give only great people points, not gold, science, production, or culture.

*edit* actually they still give culture (artists, writers, etc.)
But even the secularism social policy which is supposed to give science to specialists doesn't seem to give any yield.
It seems like it isn't just a display error either: science and gold and production in the city don't seem to be effected by how many of the appropriate specialist you have.

stackpointer · Mar 16, 2014

I can confirm this. I don't know what could've caused this since we haven't touched specialist yields.

dylansan · Mar 16, 2014

I noticed this as well. Was wondering if maybe it was intentional to make using specialists more of an important choice, but even then it didn't seem to make much sense.

stackpointer · Mar 16, 2014

It has something to do with my recent YieldLibrary changes. Probably in order to fix the Hagia Sophia. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

Delekhan · Mar 16, 2014

I have this problem too. I'm surprised no one noticed this until now, it's a pretty major problem.

Enrico Swagolo · Mar 16, 2014

I think that the problem is only with the description - I clearly remember choosing a Science specialist and still receiving the science I was supposed to get. At least in the first turn, the city's science yield was increased.

But I'll check again, I could be wrong.

CunningGabe · Mar 16, 2014

I think you are right, Enrico. I just checked myself. When I hovered over the science accumulated and I had one science specialist, it showed: 80/141 (+29.5 science), and then right underneath it said "+32.5 from cities". Next turn I had 112/141, so it really did add the 32.5.

I'll note, however, that the extra 3 science isn't showing up in the city's yield -- the city is just showing the science from population and buildings.

ExpiredReign · Mar 16, 2014

There is a discrepancy with the Secularism policy.
The actual yield is set at 4 :c5science:

but the text still shows 2 :c5science:

.

Ahriman · Mar 16, 2014

CunningGabe said:
I think you are right, Enrico. I just checked myself. When I hovered over the science accumulated and I had one science specialist, it showed: 80/141 (+29.5 science), and then right underneath it said "+32.5 from cities". Next turn I had 112/141, so it really did add the 32.5.

I'll note, however, that the extra 3 science isn't showing up in the city's yield -- the city is just showing the science from population and buildings.

Ah, I was only looking at city yields, and it wasn't showing up there. This would stlil probably mean that production at least isn't showing up at all, since production is a city yield only.

stackpointer · Mar 16, 2014

This bug should be addressed here: https://github.com/Thalassicus/cep-bnw/commit/2cc3994d0c04eb368a8bfa516f865c0aef241cef

Ahriman · Mar 16, 2014

*edit* nvm figured it out

This change seems to work.

I confirm that secularism gives +4 science, and that the specialist yield values are still generally too high (3 production engineer, 3 gold merchant, etc.). I really think specialists should be giving only 2 gold/culture/science/production each.

Delekhan · Mar 16, 2014

I'll apply the hotfix and report results.

As for whether specialists yield too much, we've discussed this a lot already. Generally production costs have increased so 3 production per engineer seems right. And 3 gold per merchant seems right too considering how much villages give and the increased production costs.

3 science per scientist does seem like an awesome deal though.

Ahriman · Mar 16, 2014

Generally production costs have increased so 3 production per engineer seems right.

Engineers shouldn't be balanced against production cost, they should be balanced against mines. The game is broken if you get equal resource yield from specialists as you do from tiles.

Production costs should then be balanced against incomes; if production costs are too high, fix production costs, don't make it a no-brainer decision that engineers are always better than mines, or merchants better than villages, etc.

Ahriman · Mar 17, 2014

What makes it even worse is the Republic social policy.
The combination of free walls plus engineer slot on the walls means every city gets an instant free mine equivalent plus GPPs in the super early game. This is extremely powerful, as normally early game many cities won't have hill tiles available (because culture is slow to grab them) and because it takes workers and worker time to build the mine, which is at a premium in the early game.

Delekhan · Mar 17, 2014

The hotfix works properly.

However I found a new issue: The Hagia Sophia is granting TWO faith per specialist instead of one. I'm drowning in faith and can't spend it fast enough now because of this.

Was that an intended change, or an error in the bonus yield?

ExpiredReign · Mar 17, 2014

Hagia Sophia still only gives 1 :c5faith:

Faith per Specialist.

Are you using any mods that might add in a specialist that isn't displaying in the city view? Or for that matter any mods that change the same yield in that table?

If not then it is a display issue.

stackpointer · Mar 18, 2014

Double faith should be fixed here: https://github.com/Thalassicus/cep-bnw/commit/24e4b47714d2d67d5ef599b213d046f9090859f2

3.15 Specialists give only GPPs

Ahriman

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stackpointer

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dylansan

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Delekhan

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Enrico Swagolo

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ExpiredReign

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Ahriman

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stackpointer

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Ahriman

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Delekhan

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Ahriman

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Delekhan

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stackpointer

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