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Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

mungman said:
Hi, I've been playing this first on v.62 and now on v.7 and have to say it's fantastic. I've been hesitant to add so far, mainly because I'm not all that experienced with the editor etc, so I wasn't too sure what I could add.

However, after playing to 30bc on v.7 I feel I can give a decent report. First some bugs I noted.

1) Can no longer sacrifice captured servii in the great games. Don't know why this is, did you perhaps add a building I'm unaware of that's needed first?

2) Can't build Circus Maximus. This is because it requires Roma and Slaves, and they must both be in the radius for it to be built. So I added a slaves resource directly to the south of Rome.

3) Imperium Scipionis never produced a Legionis Scipionis. After reflecting, it might have been obsolete at the time, but I don't recall getting a message saying it was.

Now for the play test. By 30bc I had conquered Carthaginian Spain, Cisalpine Gaul, Carthaginian Islands, Sicily, Northern Illyria (Aquileia conquered by Germans, Southern Macedonia, and Western Carthaginian Africa (Carthage had reconquered before I stopped).

Here's my take on it. Magna Graecia is way too powerful as is. I wasn't able to take Bovianum until ~175bc and then it required an army of approx. 25 units (mixed between legio, velites, and hop. alarii). My suggestion is to raise the cost for Hoplites from 40 to 45. I haven't tested it yet, but I'll let you know.

Germans are too powerful too early. I was just about to begin the second Punic War (around 200bc) when out of nowhere a huge stack (~30-40) of Bellatores shows up. I should have been prepared as I had just taken Illyria and was building up to finish them off (around 20 legios, velites and hop. alarii) but I could not stop them. Even on open ground my legios were losing to them while on the offensive. If it wasn't for a humiliating treaty and tribute, they would have overrun Italy. Personally, I think Bellatores should have a def of around 2-3 instead of 4. Early Barbarians were good attackers and ambushers, but if attacked, they really didn't have the strategic know-how early on to counter Rome. For my second go I've lowered the Bellatores to 3 def.

Another problem I ran into was Carthage kept culture flipping all the cities I conquered from them. It made it about impossible to build up the way I was able to in v.62 since just as I would reach peace and could rebuild my economy, a city would flip and I'd have to retake it. This is what led to me losing North Africa at the very end of my last game. Of course, if I could get the Great Games back that might fix it, as I would always sacrifice my captured servii and build up the culture that way.

Also, alliances, it would be good to be able to ally with the Greek city states in addition to Macedonia and Pergamum.

Well that's about it for now. I'll let you know how the game with my changes goes. Hope I've been able to help some.


Welcome to the test team mungman! :D

1) It does appear that pink overlooked the sacrifice issue. I didn't even notice in my game tho, since I never sacrifice Servii. :lol:

2) Another thing pink seems to have overlooked! It looks like he was trying to limit it to Rome AND require that you have a Slaves resource connected somewherein your empire. I just fixed it by still requiring the Roma and Slaves resources (but NOT in the city's radius) and required that the city have a Capitolium (something only Roma has) in it to build Circus Maximus. Problem solved! :goodjob:

3) It's likely that by the time you build the Imperium Scipionis, it had already gone obsolete. You need to conquer both Carthage's holdings in Sicily and Illyria fairly quickly to be able to get a couple Legio Scipionis from the wonder before it goes obsolete.


I've never experienced that problem with Germania before! 30-40 Bellatores, oh my! I always try and trade with Germania and all the other nations if I don't plan to go to war with them; this makes them less likely to invade you until your relations break down completely near the Fall of Rome stage. I too was a bit upset to see the early Bellatores' stats increased, especially their defense. My most recent game has been very frustrating with some of the unit changes.

To continue on with this subject, it seems like the boost to early barbarians in the latest patch was a bit much. As I said earlier, I added the ability for Rome to sign military alliances with other nations. So when it came to war with Carthage, I signed a military alliance with Gallia against the Carthaginians (Magna Graecia had already been defeated, which STILL was ridiculously hard for me with its weakened government). Next thing I know, the hordes of Gallia completely ran over Carthaginian Spain while I concentrated on Africa.

The changes to Hoplites and Phalanx also make the early times of the game EXTREMELY hard (and this is with a Legio with 4 defense, I mourn for you people playing with only 3 defense Legios!). While Magna Graecia, Macedonia, and the Greek City-States are massing these pop. cost-free Hoplites and Phalanxes with relative ease, Rome ends up having their army bogged down by population costs and ridiculous defeats (like an Elite Legio losing to a Regular Hoplite, Legio on offense attacking the Hoplite which is positioned on a plains tile) thanks to the "random battle calculator" (aka cheat for the computer calculator). I think that since the Greek states and other civs don't have to pay pop. costs for their main military units (Hoplites, Phalanxes, etc.), they need to have their prices increased dramatically. Also, since the pop. cost for the Legios increase with the Consular Legions, shouldn't they get an increased HP bonus as well (+2 or so)? Considering it's 2 pop. points per unit, an increase of 2 attack isn't that huge of an upgrade (it basically makes the Legion equal to the Macedonian's Phalanx, and the Phalanx doesn't even cost pop. points and is much cheaper!).

So basically, I'm asking for dramatically increased shield costs for early non-Roman units that don't cost pop. points (e.g. Hoplites), decreased stats for earlier barbarian units, and decreased unit support for Magna Graecia and the early barbarian nations (4/6/8 for Tribal Council!? was it always like that?).
 
Has anyone noticed that many of the ships rotate to attack, but shouldn't? I think it's quite strange to see a ship shooting arrows in the wrong direction, and win the battle!
 
I've tried making the Legio cost 2 pop., have 3 bombard and have 4 def. more like the Consularis.... it works well, especially with a no pop. cost hoplite alarii... so with this unit I think the barbarians should stay strong... also- enemy hoplite and phalanx with cost of 60 seems to work well
 
Ok, first, apologies for not always noting all of your comments as they should, it is not easy to keep track of all these ideas flying all over. Sorry also for some stupid mistakes appearing in patches where they shouldn’t. And as always, tons of thanks for the help. Here we go:


@Asclepius

You speak of version 0.6x right? Yes, two key concepts for the mod weren’t working, as you might have read in the previous pages. No decadence of Roman institution (represented by massive inflation) and deficient AI tech trees (which took twice the time intended to reach techs). It should be fixed in this version, certainly so for the ‘decadence’ and hopefully also for the ‘crisis of the 3rd century’ and the ‘great invasions’ to take place.

I have renamed oil for petrol, which was a commodity traded in the antiquity. The exact ingredients of the greek fire were unknown so petrol will fit there. In later ages, when Byzance lost its control of Middle east (or Crimea so?), it also lost its capacity to prepare Greek Fire and a great weapon.

I am surprised you see city in the East getting destroyed, but the only way I can reduce that effect would be to increase the optimal number of city (after which you meet mass corruption) to avoid the AI choosing the razing option (unless it was a city size 1, which mean some serious war business took place there, and well it was just happening in these days too :)). I will look at it but scope for increasing it is limited (otherwise the Praetorium would never show up in your construction list and anyway, you wouldn’t need them).

@Randy

As far as I remember, velites were already a M2 unit in version 0.6, and they didn’t build road (this was just suggested as a solution for initial slow move, which was I felt rejected!) isn't it so?

After having been humiliating crushed by a Gallia Cisalpina army near Medialonum, I have felt the need to bring back Bellatore’s attack to 8. Coltrane was right on that. Legio now really need a 4 in defence, I can't agree more and so will they be in next patch! I feel this D4 has its backside too anyway, since legion now are often in first line for the defence of the city rather than letting the Praesidium take the full strenght of the enemy's attack before being able to launch a counter strike on a weakened besieger.

For the missing anchors, I have fixed all these now with the addition of a new resource (limes and Hadrian's wall).

Is corruption in the far flung cities of the Empire still unacceptably high once you have a praetorium (civitas now also reduce corruption, but it will be limited to Italy until late in the game)? I have changed all limes cost to 60, I hope that will do. But I really wonder how these cities even build a temple (120 shields!). Should we allow the player to give citizenship to cities outside Italy before the Antonines' Constitution? I think so, but not easily. Let's think about it, it could help fighting corruption.

Rome should become the #1 cultural city in the world in due time. Which cities are the competitors late in the game? To help that, just organize great games :D

“Yes, I made it so all later barbarian units are invisible and HN and ONLY Roman nation units can see them. May the Persian's god(s) help them if the barbarians decide to take over Persia.”

You are very right! I will give the capacity to detect invisible to other civilized units as well.

BTW, Randy, the Samnite capital Bovianum is maybe the hardest city on the map to take! Look at the 100% bonus to defence given by the Castrum Samnitis, and that city is on a hill with walls. In other words, you are not supposed to take it before having good artillery or at least Consular legions (Sulla!).

I will reduce the upkeep for the Greek City States (or just Magna Graecia) but I remember times when the Gauls were running over Massilia and other parts of Gallia Narbonensis. At least now, the Greek stay there until the Roman decides they should go (or is it they decide when you should go? ;)). But since many testers face the same issue, I can only agree anyway Costs for the Phalanx/Hoplites will thus be boosted to 60, as tested by Blitzkrieg and the city states govt has been modified.

For the military alliance, you are saying Rome should be able to get them possible with every nation? I guess you are not including the barb. I could allow Rome to get allied with all civilized nations but this is opening the door to serious science fiction. With this enabled, it means all civilized nations can now make active diplomacy with ALL civ (including barbarians), with an increased probability to see a message such as "the Western Greek had an alliance with the Germanics. Germania has declared war to us" ;) It may help Rome to able to turn more nations against each other; it may also bring you in a serious mess ;) As it is now, Rome can get alliance with the diplomatically active nations which are Carthago, Macedonia, Numidia, Pergamum, Aegyptus, Syria. Do you want to add the two leagues (Aetolia and Achaia)? Obviosuly Pergamum and Numidia are in that list not because they were powerhouse but for Rome's gameplay reasons.

To make Scipio’s Leadership more effective (since it goes away pretty quick now), I have removed the timber requirement.

Ah, I note about lagging on tech research. Keep in mind the list I posted above. During my weekend playtests (geee, the game is really getting hard!) I kept a 50-50% but was a tad faster than in that list (but I didn’t go farther than the 2nd Punic War). I will keep the tech as there are now but surely we can adjust them a final time. The point is I do not want to have a min. research time to be the main engine for keeping the Roman running over the whole tree by 300AC. I would really prefer well tuned tech costs.

I can only nod my head and shear a tear when I listen on your elite legio loosing where it shouldn’t but that is Civ as I know it. I hate it but can remake Civ… I do often reload the game and keep my attack for next turn when the AI's cheat is too clear. It cheat, so do I. I have slightly boosted ALL legions worker rate (by 50) AND removed the timber requirement of the Fabri (in order to allow the Romans to build engineers early in game if missing slaves).

@Jobiwan

I added a range of 1 but it will make no difference, the AI never use artillery AFAIK. It is mostly a defender with defensive fire in bonus which should help Parthia/Pontus in defense. I reused a graphic which became no longer in use in the mod after version 0.6. Where is that graphic of Oriental archer?

I tested all your units in-game last weekend and they are great. There were two small problems in the configuration files, as follow (more misspelling from Firaxis):

- Barca: FORTIFY=..\Libyan Mercenary\LibyanMercenaryFortify.wav should be FORTIFY=..\Libyan Mercenary\LibyanMercenaryForify.wav
- Incursores: ATTACK1=GallicSwordsmanAttackA.amb should be ATTACK1=GallicSwordmanAttackA.amb

All these units with corrected config will be in next pacth. Great job Jobiwan! If you feel like, you can also make a multi-unit of the Servi Seditiosi :)

Please indicate which ship have the attack animation in the wrong direction, will be fixed then.

@Blitzkrieg

I have renamed oil to petrol. As for merging the Celts in one (what about Britannia then!?), I am afraid of the effect on a young Rome. When I read about what happen to the German in a later post, I think Gaul as good potential to be a monster civ too. They are big enough!

“I noticed the Burgundi of the western border have been replaced... =o) thank you, my compulsion for accuracy for the East Germans is satisfied (although technically the Vesigoths should still be considered Scythian by later lifeway adaptation)”

Just for the sake of Marcus Aurelius, I figured the Marcomanii should be somewhere.

”Sorry to be so nit-picky- Thuringii is a good capital of Germania by location and powerbase, hence the current name of the province, but Thuringi is a name applied to the Hermunduri, but later bastardized... Hermun[duri] + ing(meaning offspring of) => Duringi => Thuringi... so therefore, I have the true name in my book as Hermundurings.. so I propose Hermunduringi for this scenario... any comments? =oP”

Uh oh… *scratching noises* well so… I will follow you ;)

Missing the great game option (sacrifice)… well hit me really… checked and fixed.

@Mungman

Hi and thank for the feedback.

“1) Can no longer sacrifice captured servii in the great games. Don't know why this is, did you perhaps add a building I'm unaware of that's needed first?”

Yes, sorry, fixed.

2) Can't build Circus Maximus. This is because it requires Roma and Slaves, and they must both be in the radius for it to be built. So I added a slaves resource directly to the south of Rome.

Stupid me. Fixed too! I removed the slave requirement. You should not enslave your countrymen (add a slave resource in Italy) ;) Ah, Randy got a even better solution it seems. Fixed Randy’s way.

3) Imperium Scipionis never produced a Legionis Scipionis. After reflecting, it might have been obsolete at the time, but I don't recall getting a message saying it was.

Likely so, but frankly I haven’t test it. Anyone with clue whether the game tell when your small wonder/wonder get obsolete?

Since you also raise that Magna Graecia is too strong, I will consider. Randy’s idea of a weaker government for them, or then a higher hoplite cost…

Above, I reduced Bellatores from 10/4/1 to 8/4/1, I will now bring them to 8/3/1 but keep their unit pop cost to 1 while boosting shield cost from 20 to 30 (low pop cost is why Barb are so much more powerful early on, cost was 2 pop in version 0.6x and with their small cities, this was meaning very slow production). I hope it will give a balance between too weak (0.6x) and too strong (0.7). I like the idea of barb massive invasion, but 20-30 units is really a pack!!! This does mean that with its current settings, the incoming patch is going for a MASSIVE barbarian migration/invasion… Sorry if I jump from an extreme to the other, it is somewhat not easy to find the good balance in a couple of attempts :)

Culture flip are an unnerving issue, sacrificing a slave early on could help if you can afford. But still I wonder why it happens so often, especially since cities retain their culture after conquest. A temple should help fighting that flip. I have also increased Rome initial culture from 100 to 500 in hope this will give Rome a better resistance to the followers of Baal!
 
GOVERNMENTS (another attempt)

Tribal Council

Unit support: 5+3/3/3 (3 gold/unit)
Paid labour
Low war weariness
Minimal corruption

(Mostly reduce the barb capacity to mass troops)


City States

Unit support: 8+2/2/2 (3 gold/unit)
Paid labour
Low war weariness
Rampant corruption

(Since only the main city is efficient, it actually strongly weaken Magna Graecia)

Monarchy

Unit support: 0+2/4/4 (3 gold/unit)
Paid labour
Low war weariness
Nuisance corruption

(Unchanged)

Republic

Unit support: 10+1/1/0 (4 gold/unit)
Paid labour
High war weariness
Problematic corruption

(Good free upkeep for an early Rome, corruption can be kept at bay with Civitas, Praetorium)

Triumvirate Republic

Dropped

Principate

Unit support: 0+1/1/0 (3 gold/unit)
Paid labour
High war weariness
Problematic corruption

(Free upkeep better than Republic for a large Rome,but much lower than before. Corruption can be kept at bay with Civitas, Praetorium, Forum, and later Civitas, Diocese, Renovatio Diocletiani, Basilica and Theme)


Absolute Principate

Unit support: 0+1/1/0 (2 gold/unit)
Paid labour
Low war weariness
Problematic corruption
Xenophobic!
Low worker rate (50%)!

(Much more warlike, but not much interesting for empire development)

Christian Principate

Unit support: 0+1/1/0 (4 gold/unit)
Paid labour
High war weariness
Minimal corruption

(Help fighting corruption in cities but low unit maintenance)

Civil War

Unit support: 0+1/1/0 (4 gold/unit)
TRANSITION GOVT
High war weariness
Catastrophic corruption
Require Maintenance!
Forced Resettlement!
Standard Penalty Tile!
Low worker rate (50%)!

(anybody tested if the buildings with 0 costs can be build under a civil war?)
 
pink, not much time on my hands right now, but id say that bellatores = 8/2/1 pop 1 is good and legio 6(2)/3/1 is good, or if youd like, give the cisalpine gauls a version of that unit that is 8/2/1 and make it like a flavor unit that is weaker than the other civs... just a thought
 
pinktilapia said:
@Randy

As far as I remember, velites were already a M2 unit in version 0.6, and they didn’t build road (this was just suggested as a solution for initial slow move, which was I felt rejected!)

After having been humiliating crushed by a Gallia Cisalpina army near Medialonum, I have felt the need to bring back Bellatore’s attack to 8. Coltrane was right on that. Legio now really need a 4 in defence! Although I feel this D4 has its backside, since legion now are often in first line for the defence of the city rather than letting the Praesidium take the full attack of the enemy before being able to launch a counter strike on the weakened besieger.

For the missing anchors, I think I have fixed that now with the addition of a new resource.

Is corruption in the far flung cities of the Empire still unacceptably high once you have a praetorium? I have changed all limes cost to 60, I hope that will do. But I really wonder how these cities even build a temple (120 shields!).

Rome should become the #1 cultural city in the world in due time. To help that, just organize great games!

“Yes, I made it so all later barbarian units are invisible and HN and ONLY Roman nation units can see them. May the Persian's god(s) help them if the barbarians decide to take over Persia.”

You are very right! I will give the capacity to detect invisible to other civilized units as well.

BTW, Randy, the Samnite capital Bovianum is maybe the hardest city on the map to take! Look at the 100% bonus to defence given by the Castrum Samnitis, and that city is on a hill with walls. In other words, you are not supposed to take it before having good artillery or at least Consular legions (Sulla!).

I will reduce the upkeep for the Greek City States (or just Magna Graecia) but I remember times when the Gauls were running over Massilia and other parts of Gallia Narbonensis. At least now, the Greek stay there until the Roman decides they should go! (or is it they decide you should go ). But since many testers face the same issue, I can only agree! Costs for the Phalanx/Hoplites will thus be boosted to 60, as tested by Blitzkrieg.

For the military alliance, you are saying Rome should be able to get them possible with every nation? I guess you are not including the barb. I could allow Rome to get allied with all civilized nations but this is opening the door to serious fiction. With this enabled, it means all civilized nations can now make active diplomacy with ALL civ (including barbarians), with an increased probabilioty to see a message such as the Western Greek had an alliance with the Germanics. Germania has declared war to us It may help Rome to able to turn more nations against each other; it may also bring you in a serious mess As it is now, Rome can get alliance with the diplomatically active nations which are Carthago, Macedonia, Numidia, Pergamum, Aegyptus, Syria. Do you want to add the two leagues (Aetolia and Achaia)?

To make Scipio’s Leadership more effective (since it goes away pretty quick now), I have removed the timber requirement.

Ah, I note about lagging on tech research. Keep in mind the list I posted above. During my weekend playtests (geee, the game is really getting hard!) I kept a 50-50% but was a tad faster than in that list (but I didn’t go farther than the 2nd Punic War). I will keep the tech as there are now but surely we can adjust them a final time. The point is I do not want to have a min. research time to be the main engine for keeping the Roman running over the whole tree by 300AC. I would really prefer well tuned tech costs.

I can only nod my head and shear a tear when I listen on your elite legio loosing where it shouldn’t but that is Civ as I know it. I hate it but can remake the game… I do often reload the game and keep the attack for next turn when the AI cheat is too clear. I have slightly boosted ALL legions worker rate (by 50) AND removed the timber requirement of the Fabri (in order to allow the Romans to build engineers early in game if missing slaves).

- Well, it does kind of make sense that Velites (and the other Auxiliary troops?) can build at least roads at a much slower rate than the Legion units, since they are technically part of the Legion. It'll also help the Roman players build up their road system, which is vital for moving troops around.

- That is indeed true that Legions jump up in front of other troops when defending, but really, I was always finding that my Elite and Veteran Legions would jump in front of the Regular Hoplite Alarii just because they have more HP. Very annoying, to say the least. I wish you could CHOOSE which troops you wanted to send out to defend against an attack (unless, of course, it's a sneak attack)!

- Corruption is massive in the majority of the cities of the Roman Empire once it starts spreading around the Mediterranean. Corruption-reducing improvements like the Civitas, Praetoriums, etc. help a lot, of course, but it still takes a long time to build things with only 1-2 shields per turn.

- I know, I know, organizing a bunch of great games would certainly make Rome the #1 cultural city in no time. But I like using my Servii for cultivating land and building mines instead of sacrificing them! :mad: Perhaps allow Fabri to cultivate land as well so that most Servii can be used to organize Great Games? Another thing that would help is to make the Roman cavalry (Equites, not the allied cavalry) and Velites/Auxiliary enslave Servii as well since the enslave rate is pretty low sometimes. This way, there can be hordes of slaves coming in that can be used to both do slave work for the state and make the people happy with the Great Games that they're "allowed" to participate in! :D

While on the subject of Great Games, shouldn't the Colosseum double the effects of the Great Games in its city?

- I never noticed that extra defensive bonus from the Samnite wonder! No wonder it's so hard! :mad: I guess I'll simply hold off on taking Bovianum and save it for later; it's a pretty much worthless city once you capture it anyways (just takes up good tiles that Capua can be using).

- Military alliances... yes, I wanted the other Greek City-States added to the list of nations that Rome can sign military alliances with. I think those 3 nations are the only 3 nations that I added to that list, tho. I know that adding to the list of nations that can sign military alliances can possibly create a problem for Rome, but I guess that's just all the more reason for the Roman player to worry about their stance with other nations! ;)

- Tech researching / min. tech rates... well, the main problem with that is that everyone has their own play style. Some may concentrate more on technology advancement and fly thru the tech tree, while others may keep it at 10% thru the entire game. It can also largely depend on the person's military successes: the more cities they've conquered, the faster they're gioing to get thru the tech tree. Unfortunately (or fortunately? :p), you can't really control how many cities the player conquers and by when, so you don't really know how much science the player's cities are going to be generating every turn. Then there's city improvements, wonders, etc. etc. etc. The only permanent factor that I can think of to control how fast the Roman player gets thru the tech tree is the min. tech rate. Maybe making all Roman governments with a rate cap of 5 so that everyone will go 5-5-0 (because no one wastes money on entertaining their citizens, right!? :D)?

- increased Legio work rate and make it easier to gain access to Legio Scipionis and Fabri -- sounds good to me! :D

- New governments... I'm just wondering, why make them all x/x/0 for military support? I'm thinking that may make some people hold their cities at the size 2 max and not go to size 3 so they don't lose military support. Surely a city as large as a size 3 city can support at least 1 military unit? I like the new changes to the Roman governments, making it so that the Empire's income (for the most part) decides how large their army is rather than the size of their cities. And there's a good reason to switch over to the Christian Principate! :goodjob: The Civil War thing won't work with Catastrophic corruption, tho. It will work with Rampant corruption however!


Oh and yes, Triumvirate Republic! ;) That time period just goes by so fast in this scenario (tech-wise) that you learn of the Principate government right after you learn about the Tri. Rep. It probably was a good idea to just trash it. It can definitely be used in future scenarios tho (which I hope will be appearing after the main mod/scenario is completed! :D).
 
well you could make Triumvirate required for Caesar =o)
I liked having to conquer Illyria to get Scipio because it forced early historical accuracy... but its not logical necessarily and making it easier could work well...
I think Monarchy needs to be 2/4/6... a tad of a boost... also- shouldn't Gaul threaten the Western Greeks so you can help them by invading ;OP
I can understand removing some support for City States because of such bad experiences... but I'd hate to make them too easy either...
 
With the 0 cost for the Dictator wonder, indeed triumvirate times are too short now and you get Caesar during the Age of Augustus... :(
I added a first wonder (to be built as a prerequisite for Dictator - Pompey is finally there!). Besides, you will need triumvirate republic to build Dictator as well (which effectively force you in a civil war before Caesar take power and after when moving to Principate, which is nicely historical, thanks Blitz :)). Triumvirate Rep made similar to Principate with Rampant corruption (you won't keep it more than the time needed).

What about 2/5/5 for Monarchy? Randy is right, only the Roman can get size-3 cities.

Have tentatively put all roman govt to a rate cap of 5 so as all players are at the same level. I suspect this will upset many but let's see. In this context, if you want more gold, it will be at the cost of your production (through switching cities to produce gold with the very efficient wealth 'improvement') and not research (aka time/history).

Otherwise, I added 100 worker rate to Velites only (I figure an imperial Rome with all its legion will have enough manpower to build roads); added enslaving capacity to 'regular' roman cavalry (but not to other aux) for Randy's great games! I haven't checked to Colosseum as a double game effect building in order to motivate the player to also build a normal amphitheater in Rome.

Added Achaia, Aetolia and Magna Graecia to the nation diplomatically active (not Athens, I want it to keep neutral), let's see if it works as intended.

I would keep size-3 cities with 0 free upkeep (this 1 free unit lost when the city reach level 3 is just 2 or 3 gold piece, which I am sure is nothing compared to the increasing tax the player can get from a very large city; I mostly want to emphasize the importance of new conquests for a healthy Roman army, when Rome grow 'old' and its cities big, people are no longer warlike, while the borders were known for their reliable war efforts, always maintained by regular war with neighboring barbarians).

For the scenario, once we have a good v1.0, I wish you guys will be working on great expansions, while I will be eventually... playing :) :D
 
Not so sure about giving a military support upgrade to the Monarchies. They're already a pain in the butt. :mad:

Cavalry able to enslave...woo hoo, now I may organize some great games! :p What about allowing Fabri to cultivate land?

Magna Graecia diplomatically active... not too sure about that! Whenever I gave either Carthage or Magna Graecia the Diplomacy tech, either Carthage would end up having Magna Graecia declare war on me or I would have Magna Graecia declare war on Carthage during the first and second Punic wars (either way, resulting in their destruction). I think it's best that Magna Graecia just stay neutral. And Carthage probably shouldn't get the Diplomacy tech either; they'll end up bringing the entire world into the Punic wars if they're able to.
 
Now that I've had a go with v0.7 I want to change my vote! I now think the Legio has to have a defence of 4!

I find it totally impossible to go to war with Carthage immediately, they are just too strong. I'm giving them as much gold as I can to keep them sweet. Defeating Gallia Transalpinia and Illyria is about my limit for the first 80 years.

The Western Greeks are way too powerful, even with Legio Consularis and a stack of Ballista, Syracusae and Bovianum have cost me a s**t load of troops and many, many years to defeat.

I'm glad I'm not at war with Macedon (yet!) as they seem to be swarming through my territory with about 30 Phallanx!! I don't dare ask them to leave, I'll get annihilated! How can they build so many, so fast!

I think it is probably better if the majority of the civs can't make alliances otherwise there will be too many unhistorical wars and as Randy said, Carthage will just bribe the world. Although Aegyptus is kicking some Carthaginian butt a the moment :)
 
Some more quick comments on my current game:

The +1 HP bonus on the Consular and Imperial Legions (because of their increased pop. costs and size, it only makes sense for them to have more HP, right?) definitely works out great. It REALLY helps with dealing with the hordes of Hoplites and Phalanxes that the Greek nations just leave fortified in their cities (very annoying :mad: because Hoplites and Phalanxes are checked as defensive, normally all the AI does is mass Hoplites and Phalanxes in their cities and sit there).

As I said in the first part, most of the Greek nations are just keeping hordes of their Hoplites and Phalanxes fortified in their cities, making them EXTREMELY hard and VERY costly to conquer. If the defensive flag weren't checked for these units, I'm sure the AI would bring them out in times of war to fight out on the field instead of cities, which I personally think would be much better.

My 12-turn min. tech rate thing isn't working this time around :( By the time I built Imperium Caesaris, it went obsolete. Hopefully that forced 50% rate cap government thing will work.

You can't go into Civil War until you know of 2 or more governments (Civil War/Anarchy not included). So, when you discover the Agararian Troubles tech, you can't build Lex Agraria until you discover the Triumvirate tech. I personally wouldn't go into Civil War until I discovered Triumvirate anyways, so I'm not sure what to do here.
 
I did manage to take the islands from Carthage fairly easily and then get a peace before getting swarmed by Hamilcar in the Alpes. I did already remove the possibility for the Barcan troops to be transported by boat! Now Xanthippus remains in Africa until you feel ready for it, and Hamilcar, Hasrdubal and Hannibal will walk (although i never saw them being embarked). The culture switch is a issue in v0.7, altought I don't see what I changed to could cause that. Now is there a consensus that the early war vs. Carthage is too hard? I might solve that by increasing the generation rate of Imperium Scipionis. Hopefully the Greeks, with their increased cost to 60 for hoplites and phalanx (from 40) should be seriously diminished. Taking Bovianum is supposed to be hard to reflect the fact Rome didn't solved its Samnites problems until Sulla. Syracusae is a capital, so it get a bonus (50%) in defense, and has the Archimedes' Workshop, which provide another bonus (50%). You add the fact it is a level 2-city (50%), that gives you 150% bonus in defense. Another of the hardest city to take. Now, with quinquiremes, you should be able to seriously reduce Syracusae. I know.... these ships are very expensive :D

Ah, Randy, I gladly remove Magna Graecia from the Diplo list but I have doubt for Carthage. They did -historically- get Macedonia coming into the war, and were themselves bring in by Syracusae... I wish to keep only the slaves for farming (it sounds strange to have an engineer growing crops in Antiquity :)). If there is still a shortage of slaves once the Empire get really big, don't forget the player can build them once you control a slave resource. Eventually, by 400AC, I do not wish that the whole Empire is fully developed as in a normal; civ map (road, irrigation and mines everywhere). E.g. Gauls should be left pretty wooded and undeveloped, with just the city surroundings farmed, while Asia, Italy, Africa would be more intensively cultured.
Do you folks want a new patch quickly, or want to stick to your current game to accomodate more issues before updating?
 
@Randy
Do you mean, another extra HP (+2HP) for these legio? With increased stat, they will really be strong... It is not so much that I think 'logically' (m ore pop cost, more HP) than I think in game balance term. Rome by that time should already be a crusher.

For hoplites/phalanx, I can see it isn't working as intended, but still, how to solve that. The AI will need anyway a unit flagged in defense, and its always focus on building these def. units! So, like in v0.6, rather than having Greek city states armies based on hoplites (should actually be Peltats), we have tons of militia. Same for macedonia with a few phalanx, but hordes of militia... I did saw the AI attacking me in v0.7 with a nice pack of 4 hoplites directly coming from Syracusae, so it uses them... sometime. The AI has unit flagged exclusively for attack also, so it has choices (peltats, cavalry). Why the AI focuses on building def unit, i don't know. At least now, some of these def. unit also attack! I am open to suggestions :)
 
Maybe we shouldn't 'hardcode' the end of the leadership-type wonders (i.e. fixing a date at which they expire and penalizing the players already late/weak). The soft way would be to make a Roman tech turning these leadership obsolete, so as to ensure every player can benefit of them for sometime. Less historical, but surely more playable. I think I will go this way for next patch.

Good point for the civl war issue, Randy. I will think over it.
 
Looking over the units I've found something that someone else mentioned earlier... Cohortes Imperatorae have the cost 200/200 for the unit producing wonder, but the advance required is Antoines Golden Age and it has the worker actions of a buildable unit... but is immobile... and the Cohortes Praetorinae has the opposite... so I think the wonder producing Praetorinae got mixed with the Player producing Imperatorae... SORRY if you've already recognized this and addressed this... is either suppose to be immobile?
 
Are the Praesidium Saxanis suppose to have lost the Foot Unit designation and Draft ability?
 
pinktilapia said:
@Randy
Do you mean, another extra HP (+2HP) for these legio? With increased stat, they will really be strong... It is not so much that I think 'logically' (m ore pop cost, more HP) than I think in game balance term. Rome by that time should already be a crusher.

Yes, I meant a +2 HP bonus total. The extra HP on the Consular and Imperial Legions is real nice, but it doesn't make it invincible. Just makes it, oh, worth its 2 pop. and high shield cost? ;)

pinktilapia said:
Ah, Randy, I gladly remove Magna Graecia from the Diplo list but I have doubt for Carthage. They did -historically- get Macedonia coming into the war, and were themselves bring in by Syracusae

Carthage will still be able to sign military alliances with Macedonia since Macedonia has the Diplomacy tech.

blitzkrieg80 said:
Looking over the units I've found something that someone else mentioned earlier... Cohortes Imperatorae have the cost 200/200 for the unit producing wonder, but the advance required is Antoines Golden Age and it has the worker actions of a buildable unit... but is immobile... and the Cohortes Praetorinae has the opposite... so I think the wonder producing Praetorinae got mixed with the Player producing Imperatorae... SORRY if you've already recognized this and addressed this... is either suppose to be immobile?

The units produced by the wonder are immobile defenders to represent the Praetorian Guard (the Emperor's personal guard) that was created and stationed at Rome. Later, they can be upgraded to a mobile version, I'm guessing to represent a period when the Emperor went out on his campaigns and brought the Praetorian Guard along (?).
 
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