Rate the Beliefs - part V: Reformation beliefs

3 - Unity of the Prophets: Good bonus to defend against spamming missionaries/prophets, especially if you have an extremely pious civ next to you
I think this is good if you yourself ignore the faith-purchased building and spam faith yourself. If you take buildings and other civs start faith-spamming because they have nothing to spend their faith on, then it becomes incredibly difficult to keep up at their pace when you gotta purchase them pagodas/cathedrals/mosques/monasteries, especially on Immortal+.
 
Also although I haven't tried Heathen conversion yet, a person replied that it also works on rebels. So you can effectively go under -10 unhappy and then just farm rebels for units.

I can confirm this - HC was one of the first Reformation beliefs I used and can be very powerful, as barbarians are so common. It incidentally makes the missionary immune to barbarian capture, since the conversion happens as soon as a barbarian moves into the adjacent tile.

As mentioned though it's situational - it does however save a lot of money/production on buying units if you plan to warmonger, and you get the gold from barbarian camps when you move a missionary next to one and convert the occupant.
 
Random note concerning Sacred Sites. If you build the Great Mosque of Djenne, you still gain the +2 Tourism from the free Mosque even though you didn't purchase it with faith.

Does that apply to the HS temple?
 
although i didnt test it i guess NO. the temple is not bought with faith like mosques, cathedrals, pagodas or monasteries. it also doesnt apply to science buildings bought with jesuit education.
 
Unity of the Prophets is actually really good for Byzantine. Use your UA to choose a second Founder belief, then choose Unity of Prophets and convert the world. Getting the benefits of 2 founder beliefs is very useful and it prevents other Civs from taking too much advantage of your religion.
 
3 - Charitable Missions: Influence boosts from Gold gifts to City-States are increased by 30%.

Not yet tried this one, but if you were wanting to get City State allies, the Patronage tree is quite enough IMHO. There are also plenty of CS challenges which bring about plenty of influence boosts.

5 - Evangelism: Missionaries' Spread Religion action erodes existing pressure from other religions.

People say this is situational... IMO this is a must for Cultural Victories. Getting your religion into other civs gives you a tourism bonus with said civ, and by eroding other religions, you're essentially turning your missionaries into pseudo-Great Prophets. This stacks very nicely with the Great Mosque of Djenne and Tithe - since when is more gold situational?

1 - Heathen Conversion: Missionaries convert adjacent barbarians to this civilization.

By the time you've gotten to the reformation belief policy, your military should be far more advanced than that of barbarians, and then it will only be useful if you've got raging barbarians turned on and Shaka breathing down your neck.

3 - Jesuit Education: May build Universities, Public Schools, and Research Labs with Faith.

You're best off spending your faith on missionaries and Tithing your way through. The only time I've found this remotely useful is when I have a jungle heavy city with low production and the university is required. By the time Public Schools and Research Labs come around, I have enough cash to buy however many I want.

4 - Religious Fervor: Use Faith to purchase Industrial Era (and later) land units.

I've not used this, but I can see this being very useful in late game Domination. I do feel that saving your faith for late game scientists is the better use for faith at this point.

4 - Sacred Sites: All buildings purchased with Faith provide 2 Tourism each.

Useful for when Ideologies come about. With a fairly wide empire, and 1-3 faith buildings in each city, you can have most civs at ~60% influence by the time they choose their ideology. Going super wide with 2-3 faith buildings can have you the game won in very fast times, that is, if no-one DOW's you.

2 - The Glory of God: Use Faith to purchase any type of Great Person starting in Industrial Era.

Only useful if you don't generate the Culture points necessary to get the required trees. Science victories should have Tradition and Rationalism filled already, so GE and GS are not a problem. GG and GAdmirals are only required if you are at war, and if you are, these will be generated fast enough. If they're not, then your opposition is not strong enough for you to require one. For culture victories, GW, GA and GM grow very fast regardless whether or not you take the right tree for it. That said, managing your policies negates any use of this belief.

1 - Underground Sect: Your spies exert religious pressure on the cities they occupy.

Not nearly as powerful as other faith exerting/protecting beliefs on this list.

4 - Unity of the Prophets: Inquisitors and Prophets reduce this religion's presence by half (instead of eliminating it).

I have not tried this one yet (too used to Evangelism), but from what I've seen, this is really good if you come up against Great Prophet spammers. Remember, it not only protects your own cities, but whichever city your religion is in. You can keep your religion in every city on the map, which means this stacks very nicely with Tithe.


With most of these, it's not worth spending an entire policy trees worth of culture getting when you can be getting better bonuses from other trees. E.g. Rationalism > Jesuit Education. It also means you can finish another tree with more useful aspects elsewhere to open up another Great Person which may not necessarily be essential for victory (hence negating The Glory of God). And surely the Honor tree is more useful than Heathen Conversion?
 
You guys aren't going to like me, probably because you won't find a bigger Piety hater than me.

There is a big sacrifice in getting a Reformation in the Piety tree. You will get no gold, culture, growth, or happiness bonuses from your first 5 social policies. You won't be able to afford an army or even workers.

1 - Charitable Missions: - Just put 2 policies into Patronage and you will have basically the same bonus.
1 - Evangelism - meh
1 - Heathen Conversion - This will get you 5 brutes throughout the course of the game.
1 - Jesuit Education - This will help you get science buildings up but you would have been in a much better state if you had just gone full Tradition or Liberty. The population you get from those 2 branches will give more science than this.
1 - Religious Fervor - Costs too much and your faith could be used to buy GP.
5 - Sacred Sites - IMO the only reason to go Piety. Getting 2 religious buildings and this means you will most likely win and win quickly.
1 - The Glory of God: You are probably filling out Rationalism no matter what type of victory you are going for and also maybe Tradition. Those are the only 2 GP you ever need buy, unless you are going for culture but then you are filling out Aesthetics.
1 - Underground Sect - To be fair I've never tried it but you get at most 5 spies. That's not enough and they could be doing more important things.
1 - Unity of the Prophets - I guess I put very little value on spreading your religion.
 
There is a big sacrifice in getting a Reformation in the Piety tree. You will get no gold, culture, growth, or happiness bonuses from your first 5 social policies. You won't be able to afford an army or even workers.

I am going to agree and disagree with you here.

I agree that taking other policy trees is stronger than going into Piety just for the Reformation Belief.

On the other hand, some reformation beliefs are powerful if you use it in conjunction with the rest of the Piety tree (hence play a holy game).

Also, I always finish Tradition before starting Piety - unless I get to Theology before getting the last Tradition policy. In that case I unlock Piety so to build the GMoD.
 
Piety can mean the differnce between getting a religion and not getting one which in my opinion can be much better then any benifint from tradition, liberty or honor and while piety don't give any culture directly it can get that from religion.
Also all piety policy works on improving your religious game alot which make it very strong, but its effect is maybe not at noticable as tradition or liberty who gives freebies but pitey probably will give you a stronger game later on compared to these 2 trees.
 
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