i am not very good

Cracker (and everybody, for that matter), could you try to post more screenshots? I don't have access to Civ3 at the moment (333MHz, 64MB of RAM, ouch, don't laugh), and even when I do, loading savegames is a pain. I love following succession games, but they can be a pain.
 
Hello Cracker, HandyAndy and all.

I'd like to tag along this game if nobody minds. I usually play emperor level but this is my first SG and I figured this will give me practice posting and reporting here. :)

So here are my first ten turns for this game.

  1. 4000BC I take the starting location, it looks good enough. I work the bonus grassland to get a couple of warriors out quickly. I send the worker to irrigate and road the wheat. I start research at max rate on pottery for a quick granary.
  2. 3950BC ...
  3. 3900BC ...
  4. 3850BC ...
  5. 3800BC ...
  6. 3750BC One warrior ready, he goes out exploring north as it is the most likely direction he can find neighbors. The worker now mine and road the bonus grassland near the river.
  7. 3700BC ...
  8. 3650BC ...
  9. 3600BC ...
  10. 3550BC The scout finds Ceremonial Burial in a hut. :jump:
  11. 3500BC 2nd scout comes out and goes to clear the fog to the east. Persepolis starts on temple as a prebuild to granary.
  12. 3450BC Worker goes to work another bonus grassland and starts a road to the second city.

    The Persian empire at the end of 3450BC:



    Here is the save game.
    [/list=1]
 
Everyone is doing really well and I think we should proceed forward to the 30 turn mark before taking a short break for discussion.

We have ended up with 3 save file targets that each player should try to hit:

3450bc (turn 12: shifted a bit)
2950bc (turn 22)
2590bc (turn 30)

hopefully the last two time points won't create confusion, but turn 30 will be a good point to facilitate some discussion.

We are already seeing several different approaches to playing the opening and this will add some great prespective.

Hopefully everyone can get their saves uploaded by the end of the evening on Thursday and then we can use Friday as a discussion day before playing on.

Here's my 2950bc save position and I will try to get up some comparison screen shots as other games get posted.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1_cracker_bc2950.sav
 
  1. 3400BC Pottery discovered, Persepolis switch to granary. Research set to Alphabet at max rate to get closer to both Republic and Literature (for quick libraries since we will do most of the research).
  2. 3350BC ...
  3. 3300BC ...
  4. 3250BC ...
  5. 3200BC One scout picks up a settler from a hut. :lol: He tags along the scout in hopes of finding some luxury.
    Growth in Persepolis is slowed down to finish the granary before the next growth, in 7 turns.
  6. 3150BC ...
  7. 3100BC ...
  8. 3050BC ...
  9. 3000BC Pasargadae founded on a flood plain in range of two incenses and a flood plain wheat. It is set to produce workers for a long, long time.
  10. 2950BC ...
    [/list=1]

    This is a very fertile land :). Too bad Persepolis is not on the coast to grab colossus, Copernicus and Newton. With a little more luck there might be coast near to the SE, making a coastal city near the capitol. Here is a view of just some of the nice cities to grab:



    Here is the save game for 2950 BC.
 
Here is more :)

  1. 2900BC ...
  2. 2850BC Granary completes in Persepolis, starts on a warrior to let it grow to size 4 and have an idea of what lies to the west.
  3. 2800BC ...
  4. 2750BC A scout convinced a barbarian warrior to join us. :) Warrior completed in Persepolis, now will crank settlers for quite a while. I had to raise the luxury slider as Persepolis is now size 4 without MP.
  5. 2710BC The Bactrian tribe taught us The Wheel :jump: There is indeed a coast to the west, so that will probably be the next city. The new scout is seeing a purple border.
  6. 2670BC ...
  7. 2630BC I find the Iroquois to the NE. I sell Masonry for Warrior Code and 10 golds. The only horses I see so far are closer to Salamanca then to Persepolis. I think the first settler better go that way and steal the horses! Alphabet is discovered and Writing is ordered at 70%.
  8. 2590BC The first settler completes and is ready to go either for the horses or for a coastal city to build the colossus.
    [/list=1]

    The Persian empire at the end of 2590BC:



    Here is the save game for 2590 BC.

    I guess I am ow all caught up.
 
here is my save for 2950

recceared masonary and i got buirl and i built a seconed city next to two mountins
 
greetings all! I love this kind of SG because you get to read so many different ways to play. If I get time, I'll put in my attempt.

In the meantime, I have a request of Cracker. Could you start a thread (or sub-thread) to control the game speed. In this thread you could indicate what date to play to, when the "discussion day" for that timeframe would be and link all the submitted saves from the last round. That would give a concise place to load from and let lurkers join in without reading all the spoilers from the turn we're on.

LKendter started a Regent game like this a while back. He's actually evaluating every save game and choosing a "Winner" for each round. Then everyone plays from the winning save, like a "Best ball" competition in golf. I'm not saying you should do that, just that having a separate thread for game scheduling will help a lot.

By the way, LKendter's game is still open, we're still in the land-grabbing phase. Playing as Rome. We could use A LOT MORE players to make it really fun. Everyone here should consider playing that one too!

Read about the game in LK33 - Manager's Cage .
Enter your submissions in the LK33 - Batter's Cage

So, who's game should I start with here...:scan::goodjob:
 
Here is my save for 3450 BC, and the log of events. I'll try to read the other logs once I get caught up to the rest of you.

All worker actions refer to the turn in which the worker started doing them.

4000 BC Persepolis founded; research to 100% on Pottery. I
have the lone citizen work the grass+ by the river first-
I'm planning on a fast granary, to get more settlers
faster overall.
3950 BC Worker M (mines) river grass+
3800 BC Worker R (roads)
3750 BC Warrior built; sent to explore N. Persepolis starts
spear for defense.
3650 BC Worker I (irrigates) wheat on grassland
3550 BC Worker R
3500 BC Cultural boundaries expand; warrior pops hut NW of
city for Ceremonial Burial!
Pottery is discovered, and research started on
Alphabet.
3450 BC Not much happening; Persepolis is about to build a
spear the next turn, and the worker has moved N to
grab the other handy river/grass+.

For some reason, the Easy Upload feature and the Attach option don't like my screenshot, so one is not available for this turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1_Borealis_bc3450.sav
 
Here's the rest of it, up to 2950 BC. I've done up to the next turn, but I'll wait to post that until we've discussed these turns.

3400 BC Spearman built, and fortifies in capital; Granary
started. Worker M.
3250 BC Worker R.
3050 BC Worker R grass+ SE of capital.
2950 BC Worker M
2800 BC Persepolis builds Granary; starts Settler. Science rate
to 90% in order to avoid deficit.
2750 BC Alphabet discovered; research started on Writing.
Warrior pops hut farther N of Persepolis and gets
a 'skilled' warrior. The conscript is sent to explore.
Worker R grass+ S of city.
2710 BC Persepolis (size 5) microed to make an entertainer out
of the citizen working forest to avoid disorder.
2670 BC Worker M.
2630 BC Persepolis builds Setter, and starts another. Settler
sent to grassland coastal tile W of the city, near Ivory.
2590 BC Nothing much happens. Turn 3 ends.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA2_Borealis_bc2950.sav

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA3_Borealis_bc2590.sav
 
Thanks to all the posters that are providing helpful management tips.

One thing to remember is that this is handyandy's game and not mine (or yours). I view myself as sort of a guest here even though I volunteered to steer things somewhat. Just trust me a bit.

Remember that our first major objective is to play the first thirty turns of the game in our own style and using our own decisions and then all players need to upload save games for the 3450bc, 2950bc and 2590bc time points. (we will probably be playing beyond this time point in ten turn increments but be patient, we are not to that point yet.)

You can post save games and turn reports if you like, but we are trying to hold off discussion a tad bit until we get a few more of the newer players up to the turn 30 time point in the game.

I promise you that there will be some detailed reviews and comments but my hope is to do this by comparison and some introspection that helps people see what may be the stronger move sequences by looking at what they might have done in a bigger picture sense.

For "smith" and others, I promise you also that we will have some more screenies and cuts, but again be patient. Instant gratification and long term satisfaction do not always come packaged in the same box.

I am using handyandy as a key pacing player in these objectives since it is his game and It is best not to get too far ahead of him.

Here's my 2590bc save position and I will try to get up some comparison screen shots as other games get posted.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1_cracker_bc2590.sav
 
Before I give my summary, I want to point out that this is 1 turn late. I svaed at the wrong time, and this was the earliest autosave. I haven't moved andy units, so it's at the beggining of turn 31. Sorry! Now, onto more interesting stuff, the summary:


Lots happened here, I'll write another brief summary to outline it. I explored more, and built my second city on some ivory. I've built it in OCP style (optimal city placement for those who don't know) and I now own the luxury of Ivory. My warriors are finding even better things:
--Two barbarian huts, each containing a technology:), they were: Pottery and Ceremonial Burial,
--More luxuries :),
--Great city sites with grassland, rivers and luxuries galore! :),
--And most important of all, the ZULUS! :D :D

I contacted Shaka and asked to trade. He had only 1 city, I had 2 cities. He had less gold than me, not much of an advantage. He had another tech than me: Warrior Code, but I was only 2 turns away from Alphabet, not much of a disadvantage, and I had a better score than him! My score 40, His score: 38!-Difference of 2. Next turn: 42 & 39!-Difference of 3! Must be the extra city I built!!...

My next tech to work on is writing, so I can get communications from Shaka, and also give him some for techs and money. Then maybe ROP...

That's just about it really. Oh, and I fortified 1 spearman inside Persepolis (capital) before carrying on with settlers. My policy with settlers normally goes like: 1st uild spearman, then setttlers.

So far I have shown my strategies to be: Explore, Defend, Build. (Build being: build more cities than AI!!).
I gues my main ones are Explore & Build.
 
We need to hold postings to nothing past the 2590 (turn 30 date) until we get the main crew up to that date. (probably will move forward on Friday 11/15).

In the interim, here is a composite image to reflect the basic positions at the end of 3450bc as they are reflected in the save files.



Note: that Lee(LKendter)'s position is not actually reflected in the image since he came in a tad later and jumped right to the second save point. No problem.

This composite image is really an outline composite so it does not necessarily reflect the position of your town, improvements, or worker.

The first point I would make is that only two people chose to move their settler and found the capital in another position. We can discuss this more after the rest of the players get their saves uploaded through the 2590bc (turn 30) time point. I will post a summary status message sometime later this evening (Thursday 11/14) an this will include an announcement that "Discussion is Open" so that everyone will be encouraged to actively discuss things for at least the next 24 hours before we play on.

The second point that is not obvious in the composite is that people chose two major sequences of worker tasks that put them into either the "Mined the Wheat" or the "Irrigated the Wheat" groups. This should also be a topic of discussion (later) but I wanted to highlight this difference with the posting of this composite image.

Each player has been following somewhat of a different sequence of moves and that is great because it reflects how many different things can happen in the game even when we all start with the same cards dealt to us.

We can group the choices into some major groups and this will help move the discussion along in a more productive manner because the big picture decisions are what we really need to be focusing on instead of the tiny issues.

The third major point is that we end up with two groups of players with one group producing a warrior (or warriors) to "get out of town" and find ou more about the world. The other group went instantly toward internal build issues without pushing the exploration.

In the group of players that sent out a warrior to explore the map, we can again divide these choices by the major directions of exploration. Most players went sort of north initially and many of these players used the mountain ridge to get the widest view of their world. WIthout focusing on the discussion of these choices yet, I need to emphasize the different paths chosen because it is a bit tough to show them on the composite image clearly:
  • stwils was the only play who went directly northwest, virtually in a straight line from Persepolis to his position shown in the composite.
  • Lee(LKendter)'s moves are not shown on the composite but he had moved his town 1 square northwest to found and then sent his warrior explorer straight north to the hut and then through the ridge to the central mountain to the north
  • handandy did not produce a unit to explore
  • all the other players basically crossed the river at the wheat and followed the mountain ridge north until they could choose an east or north path

Players Borealis, LKendter (not shown on image), Jamesds, and Jaxom, have already popped the hut directly north of Persepolis while stwils hasn't seen it, cracker bypassed it, and Padma is eyeing it with passionate intent.

Only Jaxom and James have second warriors out to explore more territory.

Thinking a head to the discussion, a comparison of the position of stwills and James1 will reveal a very important game play concept the relates to speedin gup exploration and using the orthogonal grid layout that is built into the game. We can discuss this when the discussion period opens later this evening.

All in all, it is very enlightening to look at this sort of composite overlay and try to understand the reasons for the common things that people decided to do.

-----------------------
A couple of process related notes to emphasize:

This game format is really a bit introspective in how it needs to be played. We can discuss many things when we get to the discussion breaks, but it may be best if we avoid too much forward discussion like projecting city layouts and longterm map plans because this may be your strategy but it may not match the strategy of other players. It is hard to play the game and test your decisons against the similar decisions of others when the discussion of what to do occurs before you have a chance to really commit yourself to the decision you would make without all the extra guidance and information. If I told you exactly what the optimium movement strategy was (not that I know it) then you would not be crafting the same well hone set of decision skills that really will let you play the game more in your own style and to the level of enjoyment that you personally seek.

Also, posting images is good, but we need to be concious of image file size as we get lots of those going. Some of the graphics modpacks have changes to resources that make them really hard to see on clearly on sized web images, so use caution.

Think ahead to the issues you really want to discuss for the first 30 turns as well as any question you think the group should address before moving on, and -

... continued good luck to all players.
 
Are you saying that tonight (or some other time) we'll heve a discussion in the chatroom?? That would be a great idea to swap ideas, etc.
Or do you mean here?
 
cracker,

Just letting you know that my "turn-30" post probably won't go up until *late* tonight. I have a company "all-hands" meeting this afternoon, followed by a High School Bowling Association meeting this evening, so I may not even get home until 10:00pm.

Also, I agree with you about holding "forward discussion" until the discussion period. :goodjob:
 
Originally posted by Jamesds
Are you saying that tonight (or some other time) we'll heve a discussion in the chatroom?? That would be a great idea to swap ideas, etc.
Or do you mean here?
I'm sure he means here in the forum. :)

The chat idea is a good one, but when could we schedule it? Most of us appear to be in the US or Canada, but you're in the UK. Some of us have jobs, families, etc., and others are students, with a need for study time. I would love a chat, but it would be very hard to get more than a few of us together at once, I think. :(
 
Yeah, forgot about time zones!!!
 
Yes, I think chat is not a prime option due to time and place differences. (not trying to be NA centric here, just recognizing the mechanics).

My intent is to have everyone try and plan a little extra time between tonight (Thursday PM USA times) and Friday evening (PM USA times) to read and perhaps post a few messages targeted toward some of the issues I tried to outline in the past few posts.

Then after I get a sense that the discussion has had some active participation I will look to make a recommendation to move on. That recommendation may include the option and procedures for some players to "shift lifeboats" so to speak.
 
Here is a summary of my turn reports up through the 2590bc (turn 30 stopping report):

4000 BC (turn 1) – Found at start point. Set science to 20% to get 1 gpt for minimum research at 40 turns. Move worker to wheat. Irrigate then road is the plan
3900 BC (turn 3) – Irrigated wheat at EOT.
3800 BC (turn 5) – Road wheat at Eot
3750 BC (turn 6) – move to bonus grassland SW of town near river. (Mine and Road is the plan)
3700 BC (turn 7) – Population is now 2 citizens.
3600 BC (turn 9) – now have a warrior sent him along the wheat road and up on the mountain to see the east plains. Dropped science down to 10% to still keep the 1 gpt. Set the queue to build a settler.
3550 BC (turn 10) – sent warrior1 to next mountain and we see a hut to the west. Bypass it
3450 BC (turn 12) – Population is now 3 citizens. Worker completes mine and moves NE to bonus grass between rivers next to mountain: Mine and road is the plan.
3350 BC (turn 14) – Warrior1 continues straight north onto next mountain and sees hut next.
3300 BC (turn 15) – Got a huge regional map from the hut.
3250 BC (turn 16) – Met the Iroquois scout off to the east thanks to the huge map view and traded Masonry for Pottery, Burial, and 9 gold. Warrior continues straight north. Tuned research down to 50% to finish the wheel in the next turn.
3200 BC (turn 17) – Wheel discovered but no sign of horses yet. Settler out of Persepolis sent east southeast beyond gold and pop up by 1, so town stays at pop 2.
3150 BC (turn 18) – Worker completes road and mine and moves southeast two moves to grass to follow and hook up settler.
3050 BC (turn 20) – Founded Pasagardae
3000 BC (turn 21) – Warrior2 out of Persepolis heads to pop hut north of town.
2900 BC (turn 23) – Mysticism out of hut north of town.
2850 BC (turn 24) – Warrior2 jumps up on mountain NW and then heads west to hill.
2800 BC (turn 25) – Pasagardae builds warrior3 to send to help keep Persepolis MP happy. Short rush 20 shields in Persepolis, to fill barracks and then switch to Granary.
2750 BC (turn 26) – Warrior2 sees ivory west of us plus the coast. Warrior1 can see dark blue and from F11 this must be Babylon.
2710 BC (turn 27) – Warrior2 heads straight north along the forests. Met Hammurabi and he has nothing, zip, nada, bupkis to trade.
2670 BC (turn 28) – Luxuries up to 10% to balance the rush unhappiness in Persepolis, Sent Warrior3 west across the river to the forest to clear the black. Worker1 crosses the river to bonus grass SW of Pasagardae: plan to mine and road. Warrior1 way up north turns straight east (this is ugly terrain.)
2630 BC (turn 29) – Pasagardae builds worker to improve the cow.
2590 BC (turn 30) – (nothing exciting but end point)
 
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