GOTM23 Succession Game [PTW]

Just reviewing the situation:

I think we should use the ground troops to take Madrid & Santiago, then head south for Theveste. Use the eastern Ansars for Hadrumentium. The western Ansars would take Barcelona & Seville, then head south Leptis Minor & Rusicade. Any new Ansars would take Sabratha & Utica. Everybody would then meet at Carthage. After Carthage falls, Ansars could pick up Oea & Leptis Magna on their way back to Egypt. Azaps would be sent to take Hippo (which would finish off Carthage). After Egypt is gone the Azaps shouldn't have much trouble with Ishlawanda and Tugela to complete the Zulu assimilation. :hammer:

The it's a choice of Ottoman, India, France and Rome. Ottoman are probably the weakest, France is the closest to our forces, India has largest chunk of land. Rome isn't an issue because of location. The Ottoman should fall quickly, so I nominate them for next, followed by the Indians. I'd rather not have to deal with the French Musketeers (GA and all). Beside Joan's a lot cuter than Ghandi :)

As for domestic issues: probably building (rushing) temples is the best. A Forbidden Palace in Zimbabwe is a good idea for the next GL.

We should be able to complete this before riflemen come on the scene, so Ansars and MP units should be all the military we need. Probably time to turn off science (using point stick only). We might want to unhook the Saltpeter, to get cheaper MP units (Pikes).

With a little RNG luck, I might not be playing again.

:beer:


BTW: Mapstat says were about 50% of the way.
 
Wow, we're all swinging the :hammer: pretty hard this last cycle!

OK, got it and will see if I can keep it going.

Edit: Finished off Spain prior to end of turn 6, but need to stop for the night. In the meantime any strong feelings about who is next? We still need over 800 tiles, though temple expansions will help somewhat.
 
Unless much has changed I think Carthage is next on the hitlist :D


Ted
 
The first move should be to pillage the saltpeter site(s), to prevent any more muskets from appearing, as for the hills, you move the Ansars to the hill, attack the city, if they win and take the city they move forward and all is well, if they they win and the city is still occupied they are left on the hill and if they lose, they don't have to worry about counterattacks. When the stack is done attacking, if the city hasn't been taken, just move the musket you brought along to garrison the city to the hill to defend the Ansars. A musket on a hill defends as a 6 - the best attacker would be a 3 (unless they've got some knight), so the musket should defend pretty well.

If the war with Spain ends quickly and the war in Carthage goes well, it might be possible to open a second front with newly produced Ansars against the Ottomans. They're not very powerful and might fall to 4/6 Ansars. :hammer:
 
Here is the 740AD save

Take a quick look around, see that all looks well.

IBT

Zimbabwe, Mpondo resistance ends. Egyptians have a galley. Spain moves a few units
out of Madrid: Longbow, settler/spear.

Turn 1, 650 AD, 282g+46gpt, Metallurgy in 17. Seems like it was 23 before, better check
if someone just researched it. Nope, maybe my recollection of the metallurgy cost was wrong...

4/4 Azap defeats 3/3 Spear, captures 2 slaves
3/3 Azap defeats 3/3 Longbow
Ansar pillages Spanish saltpeter.
Stack of ansars in far W start E.
2 ansars to Spanish Iron, pillage next turn

IBT

Spain moves a stack of units around near ?

Makkah produces Ansar, starts another.
Resistance in Ulundi has ended.
Disease in Ulundi
Diriyah produces Ansar, starts another.
Edfu completes worker, starts temple
Romans building Bach's
Romans building Copernicus
Zulu building Sistene

Turn 2, 660 AD, 321g+36gpt, Metallurgy in 16.

Madrid:
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 Longbow, 2/4
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 Musket

Seville:
5/5 Ansar loses to 3/3 Musket, 1/3 left (gambled & lost)
2nd 5/5 Ansar pillages iron and pulls back to await reinforcements
Stack of Ansars moves forward for next turn

Madrid: 4/4 Ansar defeats 4/4 spear, 2/4

IBT

Spain moving reinforcements to Madrid, but we will catch them outside town
Carthage complains about troops walking through, say we will move them
France founds a town
Rome RoP deal comes up for renegotiation. Don't want to still be locked in 20 turns from now,
so decline it. No other trades are interesting enough to bother with. They won't even take
3 luxes for one.

Bagdhad completes musket, starts ansar
Riyadh completes ansar, starts musket
Alexmanistan completes musket, starts ansar

Turn 3, 670 AD, 358g+34gpt, Metallurgy in 15.

New musket starts long trek to take up MP in conquored territory

Seville: 4/4 Ansar attacks 3/3 Musket, breaks off attack at 1/4, don't see musket's status
4/4 Ansar attacks 3/3 musket, breaks off 1/4, musket still 3/3
Another 4/4 Ansar loses to 3/3 musket (1/3)
5/5 Ansar defeats 2/3 musket
4/5 Ansar defeats 1/3 musket, Seville liberated, 1 slave worker

Madrid: 4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 spear (outside town) 2/4
3/3 Azap loses to 3/3 spear, 2/3
3/3 Azap loses to 3/3 spear, 3/4
4/4 Azap defeats 3/4 spear, 1/4 left
4/4 Azap defeats 2/3 spear, 3/4 left, Madrid liberated, 2 slave workers.
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 sword (outside town)
2/4 Ansar defeats 4/4 longbow (outside town) 1/4 left

IBT:
1/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 archer, promotes 2/5
2/5 Ansar loses to 3/3 archer

Madinah completes musket, starts ansar

Turn 4, 680 AD, 402g+40gpt, Metallurgy in 13

4/4 Ansar defeats 2/4 archer
Move units for assaults on remaining Spanish cities

Trade check: nothing much happening
reminders of deals
Peace+10gpt from Egypt - 2 turns
Peace+1gpt from Zulu - 16 turns
Dyes from Carthage for spices, silks, gems - 11 turns

IBT:
Seville resistance ends
Damascus completes musket, starts ansar
Dhahran completes ansar, starts musket

Turn 5, 690 AD, 442g+42gpt, Metallurgy in 12

santiago:
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 spear, 2/4 left
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 spear, 1/4 left

Barcelona:
5/5 Ansar breaks off attack vs 3/3 pike, 1/5 left, retreats to heal
2nd 5/5 Ansar loses to same 3/3 pike !

Hurry temple in Zimbabwe (18 turns) for 72g
Hurry ulundi temple (20 turns) for 80g
Hurry bapedi temple (23 turns) for 92g
Musket arrives in Alexandria, change production to Azap
Join a full-price worker to Dhahran
MM Seville to all scientists
MM Madrid to all scientists
Another 5/5 Ansar finally makes a dent in that pike at Barcelona, but retreats 1/5 to heal

Scientists have dropped Metallurgy to 11 turns

IBT

Order restored at Madrid, starvation
Zimbabwe finishes temple, starts azap (40)
Persepolis, Thebes riot, entertainers hired
Makkah finishes Ansar, starts another
Ulundi Temple->Azap
Susa worker->azap
Bapedi temple->azap
Najran riots, entertainer
French city of Rheims completes Sistene Chapel
Carthage building Bach's
Ottomans building Leo's

Turn 6, 700AD, 245g+43gt, Metallurgy in 12
MM Madrid, Seville to all scientists, Metallurgy in 10
Barcelona: 4/4 Azap loses to 3/3 pike, now 3/4
3/3 Azap loses to 3/4 pike, now 3/5
4/4 Azap loses to 3/5 pike, now 1/5
4/4 Azap defeats 3/3 spear
4/5 Ansar loses to 3/3 spear :(
Army kills 1/5 pike
Army kills 1/3 spear, Barcelona captured, 1 worker.

Santiago: 4/4 Azap defeats 3/3 Spear, Santiago captured, 3 slaves (1 worker, 1 settler)
Fledgling spanish are destroyed.

Stopping for the night

Continuation of turn 6

Move units toward carthaginian territory, fastest routes available.

End of turn 6, 246g+47gpt, metallurgy in 10

IBT

Cleo comes asking for peace treaty renewal. Their paltry one city does not affect our
plans for domination, and we don't have any troops close at hand. It's not a gpt deal
so won't hurt our trading rep if we break it (not that we care much) so go ahead and
extend peace.

Starvation in towns which were MM to all scientists
Resistence ends in some towns
Romans building Bach's
Indians building Leo's
Cartage building Copernicus

Turn 7, 710 AD, 283g+37gpt, Metallurgy in 11

Troops move toward next assignments
Workers work
MM to scientists, Metallurgy in 9
Cash rush a spear in Swazi (52g) to release the ansar on MP for battle.

IBT

Lots of fairly meaningless AI movement.
Baghdad completes Ansar, starts Musket
Swazi completes spear, starts another
Gordium completes spear, starts warrior
Palace expansion

Turn 8, 720 AD, 268g+36gpt, Metallurgy in 9

Workers work, move units toward next front.

IBT

Aimless AI movement
Madinah completes Ansar, starts another
El-Amarna completes worker, starts Azap
Kufah completes Ansar, starts another
Indians building Bach's

Turn 9, 730 AD, 304g+33gpt, Metallurgy in 8

Workers work, units move toward front

Check for trade info

We have 6 turns left on a lux for lux trade with Carthage

Rome is up Music Theory, and won't take 3 luxes for 1
India is up Music, down Astronomy and Chemistry
Ottomans are down Astronomy and Chemistry
France is up Music and Banking.
Zulu are down Astronomy and Chemistry
Egypt is up Music

No GPT at stake with Carthage, and we have dyes of our own :devil2:

Declare war on Carthage
Pillage saltpeter at Hadrumetum

Hadrumetum: 4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 3/4
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, no damage
4/4 Ansar defeats 4/4 archer, 3/4, Hadrumetum liberated, 2 slaves captured, temple
Advance leftover Ansars to Theveste

Pillage saltpeter at Leptis Magna
4/4 Ansar defeats loose 3/3 Merc, promoted 4/5, 2 workers captured

Leptis Minor: 5/5 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 3/5
5/5 Ansar loses to 3/3 merc 2/3 left :(
Ansar Army defeats 2/3 merc, only 1 hp left !!, Leptis Minor liberated. Produce temple

Rusicade: Capture a worker
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 3/4
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 1/4, Rusicade liberated, produce temple

Stack ansars at Theveste

Join full-price worker to Jeddah

Cadiz: 4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 1/4
4/4 Ansar retreats from 3/3 sword, 1/4 left (sword 2/3)

Switch Mpondo to spear and cash rush (44g), so France doesn't see it as an easy target.
MM Barcelona to all scientists to starve population and cut down flip risk
Hurry temple in Barcelona (108g)

IBT

Carthage archer pushes back one of our ansars, 1/4
Makkah produces ansar, starts another
Barcelona produces temple, starts musketman
Diriyah produces ansar, starts another
Damascus produces ansar, starts another
Dhahran produces musketman, starts ansar

Leptis Minor riots, MM to scientists
Mpondo completes spearman, starts temple
Resistence in Hadrumetum ends

Turn 10, 740 AD, 193g+29gpt

4/4 Ansar defeats loose 4/4 sword, 2/4, protects workers at Riyadh
4/4 Ansar breaks off attack against 3/3 merc (at Cirta), retreats to mountain
Capture worker near hippo
Full-price worker joins Diriyah
Hippo: 4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 3/4

Theveste, 4/4 Ansar retreats from 4/4 Musket, 1/4, musket is 2/4
4/4 Ansar loses to 4/4 merc, 2/4 left
3/4 Ansar retreats from 3/3 merc, 1/4 left (merc 3/3)
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 2/4 left
4/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 merc, 4/4
4/4 Ansar defeats 2/4 musket, 2/4 left
4/4 Ansar defeats 2/4 merc, 2/4 left
3/4 Ansar defeats 3/3 archer, 2/4 left, Theveste liberated, 6 resistors, temple, 5 slaves captured

End of turn 10 activity, 193g+36gpt, Metallurgy in 6

Spain eliminated
Carthage has 6 local and 2 remote cities left
our score 1270, nearest competitor is France with 734

We are still quite a ways from domination (700+ tiles remaining)
Lots of injured units

Watch out, many of Carthage's cities are on hills.
 
Got it

I'll see if I can finish what DaveShack started :D :goodjob:


Ted
 
Just a warning that I may need to be skipped when I next come up, as for the next 24-48+ hours, I'll be heavily involved at work, and won't be able to play.
 
Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:

Tech Status
Rome up Music Theory
India up Music Theory, down Astronomy & Chemistry
Carthage unknown
Ottoman down Astronomy & Chemistry - phew! we need to deal with them before they get Sipahi
France up Music Theory, Banking & Metallurgy - won't trade
Zulu down Astronomy & Chemistry
Egypt up Music Theory

Pre-turn
MM Makkah to shave 1 turn off Ansar production
Swap some clowns for Scientists - Metallurgy now due in 5 turns
Hawk WM for 10gp
Research 90% (2 turns @ -147gpt, 203gp in the bank) - We might need a few Cav to finish off the Carthagians and for France :)

IBT
Ansar retreats from vet Archer
Thebes Worker - Worker
Asyut Musket - Worker (zero growth)
Khurasan Ansar - Worker (zero growth)

1 - 750AD
Research 50% (2 turns @ -37gpt, 56gp in Bank)
Ansar fort Hadrumetum (heal)
Vet Azap vs vet Longbow (S Rusicade) - victory (2/4)
Vet Azap vs reg Merc (2SE Rusicade) - dies red-lining Merc
Elite Ansar vs reg Merc(1/3, 2SE Rusicade) - victory & GL (Mu'awiya)
Victorius unit renamed "Ted's Ansar to a Prayer" :D
Looking at the map I think our Mu'awiya would be best utilised building the Forbidden Palace in Zimbabwe. The difficulty is getting him there :)
Our forces at Leptis Magna withdraw to the hill SSE
Ansars at Cadiz withdraw to Buto to heal, Musket takes station on Gold mountain
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (W Cirta) - victory
Hawk WM for 8gp

IBT
Ansar retreats from Longbow ()
Jeddah Musket - Worker (zero growth)

2 - 760AD
Research 40% (1 turn @ +30gpt, 27gp in Bank)
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (Cirta) - victory (1/4)
Hawk WM for 5gp

IBT
Vet Ansar (3/4) kills attacking Longbow
Discover Metallurgy - Military Tradition
Makkah Ansar - Ansar
Resistance in Theveste ends
Baghdad Musket - Ansar
Khurasan Worker - Cannon
Edfu riots ???

3 - 770AD
2 Vet Ansars advance to Gold mountain NW of Cadiz
Troops manouevre for assault on Carthage
Hawk WM for 4gp
France doesn't have Military Tradition yet - phew

IBT
Madinah Ansar - Ansar
Jeddah Worker - Cannon
Fustat Spear - Lib

4 - 780AD
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (Cirta) - dies red-lining Merc
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (Cirta) - victory (3/4)
Vet Musket vs reg Merc (1/3, Cirta) - victory
Cirta is destroyed (autorazed)
Vet Ansar vs reg Sword (Cadiz) - victory (2/4)
Vet Ansar vs reg Archer (Cadiz) - victory & promotion
Cadiz is ours - Temple
Zimbabwe switches to Forbidden Palace - Mu'awiya hurries :)
With Cirta & Cadiz gone Carthage is down to six cities. I'm in position to assault Carthage, Hippo and Sabratha in another two turns.
The Forbidden Palace should help with the Economy & Research.

Hawk WM for 10gp
Theveste hurries Temple for 76gp

IBT
Ansar kills attacking Longbow
Ansar kills attacking Longbow
Lose 2 Workers to camouflaged Sword :o
Zimbabwe Forbidden Palace - Ansar

Damascus Ansar - Ansar
Theveste Temple - Worker (get the pop down)
Dhahran Ansar - Ansar
Alexmanistan Ansar - Market
Asyut Worker - Cannon

5 - 790AD
Elite Ansar vs reg Sword - dies red-lining Sword
Vet Musket vs reg Sword (1/3) - victory
Elite Ansar vs vet Longbow (N Hlobane) - victory (3/5)
Troops Arrive at Carthage & pillage Saltpetre
Research 50% (MT in 8 turns @ +1gpt, 55gp in the Bank)
Lux 10%
Najran switches to Worker (pop control)
Hawk WM
Rome has Navigation but won't sell

IBT
Makkah Ansar - Ansar
Diriyah Ansar - Ansar
Hlobane Temple - Worker (pop control)
Najran Worker - Worker (pop control)

6 - 800AD
Assault on Carthage:
Army vs reg Musket - dies & Musket promotes (2/4) :(
Vet Ansar vs vet Merc - dies red-lining Merc
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - dies red-lining Merc
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - retreats
Elite Ansar vs vet Musket (2/4) - retreats
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket (2/4) - victory (2/4)
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (2/3) - victory (2/4)
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (1/3) - victory (2/4)
Vet Ansar vs vet Merc (1/4) - victory
Carthage is ours (Utica is the new Carthagian capital)
Assault on Sabratha:
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - victory & promotion
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - victory
Sabratha is ours
I leave Hippo as we're not quite ready. Carthage now only 4 cities.
Only four turns left on Zulu Peace.


IBT
Rome demands Spices - I give in as I don't want a war on two fronts when all our units are in the West
Theveste Worker - Worker
Ngome Temple - Harbour
France starts Magellan's

7 - 810AD
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - dies & Merc promotes
Vet Ansar vs Vet Merc - dies & Merc promotes (3/5)
Vet Ansar vs elite Merc (3/5) - victory & promotion (3/5) - we capture 2 slaves
Assault on Hippo:
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - dies red-lining Merc
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (1/3) - victory
Hippo is ours
Research 50% (9 turns @ +41gpt, 7gp in the Bank)
Hawk WM

IBT
Ulundi Azap - Worker (improvements)
Hlobane Worker - Musket
Baghdad Ansar - Ansar
Riyadh Musket - Worker (zero growth)
Gordium Warrior - Worker (corrupt)

8 - 820AD
Elite Ansar vs reg Longbow - victory (3/5)
recapture our 'bait' Workers
We now have 7 vet Ansars NW of Utica (not quite enough but I can't find any more until next turn)
Research 50% (5 turns @ -31gpt, 54gp in the Bank)

IBT
Game hung twice on AI moves but 3rd time went through OK
Makkah Ansar - Ansar
Madinah Ansar - Ansar
Rome starts Magellan's

9 - 830AD
Assault on Utica:
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket - victory (2/4)
Vet Ansar vs reg Musket - dies witout landing a blow, Musket promotes
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket - retreats inflicting 1hp damage
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket (3/4) - retreats without landing a blow
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket (3/4) - dies red-lining Musket
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - victory
Vet Ansar vs vet Musket (1/4) - dies, Musket promotes (2/5)
Elite Ansar vs elite Musket (2/5) - victory
Utica is ours (Leptis Magna is the new capital)
Hawk WM
France has Military Tradition but won't sell
Carthage is in Anarchy (was Monarchy)

IBT
Persepolis Settler - Worker
Resistance in Utica ends
Damascus Ansar - Ansar
Theveste Worker - Musket
Riyadh Worker - Musket
Dhahran Ansar - Ansar
Resistance in Hippo ends
Avignon (France) completes Leonardo's
Ottoman start Bach's

10 - 840AD
Research 40% (4 turns @ +41gpt, 18gp in the Bank)
Assault on Oea:
Elite Ansar vs reg Musket - retreats inflicting 1hp damage
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - retreats inflicting 1hp damage
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc - retreats inflicting 1hp damage
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (2/3) - victory
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (2/3) - victory & promotion
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (2/3) - retreats
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (2/3) - dies red-lining Merc
Vet Ansar vs reg Merc (1/3) - victory
Oea is ours
Elite Ansar vs vet Longbow - victory (4/5)

Tech Status
Rome up Music Theory & Navigation
India up Music Theory - down Astronomy & Chemistry
France up Music Theory, Banking, Navigation & Military Tradition
Zulu down Astronomy & Chemistry
Egypt up Music Theory & Navigation - down Metallurgy
Ottoman up Music Theory - down Metallurgy

Minimap


Notes
I got a GL & built the Forbidden Palace in Zimbabwe - there's a Cathedral due in 2 turns as we're a bit close to the new Zulu capital.
Only Leptis Magna is left of Carthage - 7 or 8 Ansars should do the job.
Peace with Zulu expires next turn - might as well finish them off
Military Tradition due in 4 (at the moment) - we could probably shave a turn off this if you do as I did and research at a deficit until we can't afford it than back off for 1 turn.
After Mil Trad I suggest we just turn off research altogether. If there's a tech we want then extort it from France.
There's a Settler North of Snagha (from Perspolis) to fill a gap somewhere and there are a couple more in production.

The save is > here <


Ted
 
Just noticed that jimmydean has posted a skip notice. Which means - unless you guys want to wait....

Come on down denyd, you're up :)


Ted
 
Ok, I’ve got it. Thanks to a nice :hammer: job on Spain by Dave and nice bit of :hammer: on Carthage by Ted, most of the non-France west is ours. I’ll try to play tonight.

I’ll move some Ansars to complete the Carthage removal and get them in place to finish off the Zulu and Egypt (when the treaty’s over). I’m not sure how many Azap/Swords are left, but I’ll send them to prepare to assault Sogut. As soon as Military Tradition is available, I’ll shutdown research and concentrate on upgrading all non-elite Ansars to cavalry. My plan is to have two cavalry groups begin the assault on the Ottomans by taking Uskudar [Army A] and Antalya [Army B] (no more saltpeter). It looks like the Ottoman have no iron, so except for existing Pike, Musket & Knights, it should be Longbows, Spears and Horsemen. I’ll move the ground units [Army C] via the Ottoman road system to Sogut, while letting Army A go for Iznik & Izmit and Army B go for Istanbul. The Armies will unite for Aydin and Bursa completing the Ottoman conquest.

I’ll probably need a couple of settlers to fill in some of the open space. Once the Zulu, & Carthage are gone and resistance is over, I’ll start those conquered cities to building workers. We’ve got a lot of jungle to chop away to make a quality second core. If I get a Great Leader during these battles, is there a good choice for his use? Bach’s & Copernicus are the only available wonders currently and I don’t think a cavalry army is that potent.

I’ll check back later.

:beer:
 
I'm not so sure producing workers is a good idea. We need at least 100 more in population to meet the domination limit. Transferring existing workers to the Zimbabwe area may be enough, since the 1st core is pretty much fully improved.

After upgrading Ansars to Cavalry, future gold can go into rushes for aqueducts to allow population to grow, and for culture buildings to fill in gaps. Also consider using settlers to fill in gaps instead of cultural expansion, except around the FP. A priority is the space between Mpondo and Leptis Minor, before France gets to it.

I'm pretty sure we will have to take out the Ottomans and at least one of Rome or India to get enough tiles to win.
 
Carthage only has one city left. The Zulu only have two cites and our Ansars will be right on their doorstep after Utica is taken. Egypt is a short (2 turns) stroll on from there.

The question (for me) is can we or should we attack France? The benefits are she's close, is the tech leader and has some nice Wonders to add to our collection (Pyramids, Leonardo's). Her Satpetre sources are also within easy pillaging reach to stop her building (more) Cav & Musketeers. Might be easier than we earlier thought.

Edit: I didn't make my point very cleary. France is on the verge of entering the Industrial Age (and do we really want Rifles on the board? I think not), has Pyramids which would help our pop growth and Leonardo's which would halve the cost of upgrading our Ansars.

These factors make France a more important target than the Ottoman Empire in my opinion.



Producing Workers in cities that have reached their pop limit (for whatevever reason) is a good idea. We can always join them back into other towns.


Ted
 
I got detoured by RL last night, but should be able to play tonight.

My thought was instead of starving down a city, convert those ex-resistors into workers, chop the jungle and irrigate the grasslands. Once the jungle is gone, add those workers back to the cities to increase our population. I’ll get a couple of growth-blocked cities to produce some settlers to fill in the NE & SW gaps.

As for the next target, I agree with Ted about not wanting to face riflemen. I just checked and France has got 2 sources of Saltpeter (Chartres & Lyons), we would not be able to eliminate any new Musketeers until quite late in the war. Unless Otto is trading for SP, they don’t have any and would make easy Elite Ansar/Cavalry food. Rome’s has a single SP source next to Rome, so they would also have muskets. After the 3 AI remnants are gone and we will probably need the Ottoman’s plus at least 1 other to complete the domination. My choice would be Rome, since the troops are already nearby. If riflemen show up during that war, their quantity would be limited and our superior cavalry numbers should prevail. My only concern would be either India or France jumping in on Rome’s side. Hopefully, we won’t have to attack France or India to win, but if we do the western Indian cities should fall pretty easily and that should be enough land to secure a domination victory.

I don’t think the 'if' in victory is in doubt any longer, now it’s just the 'when'.

Edit: Ted, after reading your post, while I agree France has some very tempting targets, I think Rome would be an easier opponent, with about the same amount of land.
 
I'm in the middle of turn # 4, I've reached a decision point and feel the team should make these decisions.

1. I've got a GL (Hind) in Makkah.

Should I wait to attack Egypt, who should be a pushover, with Elite AW until Hind has been used?

Should I use Hind to build the Military Academy and then go after Egypt?

Should I save Hind for A) Newton B) Smith's C) Shakespeare ?

My vote is build the MA and go after Egypt looking for more GL.

2. Most of the AI are getting close to MT (or they have it), so I'm planning on starting a war with Ottomans using about 30 Cavalry in about 3 turns. I don't want to have Sippah on the board and don't expect the war to last very long (they've got 8 cities on flat terrain). After the Ottoman are decimated. The choice is then
A) Rome B) India C) France)?

Rome is close to where the troops are, has Copernicus & Hanging Gardens and doesn't have, but I just made a 20-turn trade with.

India is not a close as Rome to our troops, has Bach and has no current trades, but does have Elephants (possible GA)

France is the farthest and most advanced. Not to rifles yet. Has excellent wonders (Leo, Pyramids), might kick off their GA.

My vote is Rome, in spite of needing to break a deal. Both other potentials might get a GA during a war and that's tough to win against, also they are the closest.

EDIT: One more quick one, is trading metallurgy to India for banking a bad idea?

Here's my turn log for the first 4 turns:

First we reset our preferences and then have a look around. Wake up all extra MP units and move them to desired locations.

Turn 0 – Vet AW kills Vet LB (3/4)
Trade Check:
Zulu giving 1gpt for 1 more turn
Egypt peace for 6 more turns
Trade Wool to France for 12gpt – Trade Dyes to France for 11gpt – Trade Spices to France for 15gpt – Trade Gems to France for 16gpt

IBT: Zulu come calling asking to extend peace – not really ready for war, but don’t want to delay this for 20 more turns, so decline and War with Zulu is on – Egypt asks for Metallurgy for Music Theory, trade TM’s instead – Ulundi riots – Neapolis (Rome) completes Copernicus Observatory – Delhi (India) builds JS Bach’s Cathedral – Thebes builds worker, starts another

Turn 1 – 850 AD – Settler & Pike sent to A-town – Vet AW loses to Reg Musket (3/3) – Vet AW loses to Reg Musket (2/4) – Vet AW loses to Vet NM (1/4) – Vet AW (1/4) retreats from Vet NM (2/4) – Elite AW kills Vet Musket and GL Hind is born, unit renamed Ted’s Vengeance – Vet AW kills Vet NM (3/4) – Ted’s Ansar to a Prayer kills final NM (4/5) and Leptis Magna is ours, starts temple – Carthage is gone – Other AW & Azap are move to attack Zulu lands
Trade Check:
India a possible Metallurgy for Banking & Music Theory is declined
Egypt has nothing we need
Zulu won’t talk
Rome trade silks to Rome for 8gpt
Shift slider to MT in 2

IBT: Vet LB (2/4) attacks Vet AW retreats (1/4) – Vet LB (3/4) kills Vet Azap – France, Ottoman and Roman settlers change course for home – Makkah builds AW starts another – Dinyah builds AW starts musket – Alexandria builds Azap starts AW – Baghdad builds AW starts another – Khurasan builds cannon, starts musket – Aden builds musket starts cannon –

Turn 2 – 860 AD – Cannon sent to Dharhan – Vet AW defeats Vet Impi (1/4) – Vet AW defeats Reg Impi (4/4) and Isandhlwana is ours (capital now Tugela) – Vet AW loses to Vet Impi (1/4) – Vet AW kills Vet LB (3/4) – Elite AW kills Vet Impi (5/5)
Trade Check:
Zulu: Won’t talk – last turn on planet
Egypt: Next on list, nothing to trade for
Rome: Trade Wool for 9gpt – Trade Dyes for 4gpt
India: Same deals as last turn
Ottoman: Only Chemistry for Music Theory available and I’m not interested
France: no changes

IBT: Lots of settler movement by France, Rome and Zulu – Research Military Tradition start for Banking at minimum – Edfu builds temple starts walls – Lyons (France) builds Magellan’s Voyage

Turn 3 – 870 AD – Vet AW (1/4) retreats from Vet Pike (4/4) – Vet AW (3/4) kills Vet Pike – Vet AW loses to Reg Impi (3/4) – Vet AW (2/4) kills Vet Impi – Vet AW (2/4) kills Vet LB and Tugela is ours along with 1 slave – Zulu’s have a settler somewhere keeping them alive – Upgrade 6 AW to Cavalry (all were vets except Ted’s Ansar to a Prayer)
Trade Check:
Zulu – won’t talk
Egypt – 3 turns left
Ottoman, France & India – same as before

IBT: Zulu settler builds Umtata – Vet LB (1/4) defeats Vet AW – Zimbabwe builds Cathedral starts Musket – Utica builds temple starts Musket – Ulundi builds settler starts Cavalry – Elephantine builds Musket starts cannon – Hlobane builds settler starts musket – Jeddah builds cannon starts another – PiRamesses builds courthouse starts cannon – Basra builds Azap starts cannon

Turn 4 – 880 AD – Vet Cavalry kills Vet LB (2/4) – Vet Cav kills Vet Impi (4/4) – Vet Cav kills Reg Impi (3/4) and Umtata is destroyed and the Zulu are gone – 6 more AW upgraded to Cavalry (total 12, 19 to go)

Time to stop (played 2 1/2 hours) and get advice.


Let me know in the next 12 hours what you think. Without response, I'll go with my preferences.

:beer:
 
Yeah, build the MA & fish for more leaders :)



Ted
p.s. good work on the Zulu
 
Why the MA? At 400 shields a pop, it'll take us forever to build an army. I'd say either build an army of cavs, or save the leader until we can get economics/theory of gravity.
 
I'd say the MA or the army, just because it can be done immediately. The only other immediate choice which would make sense is to reposition the palace if there is a fully developed and better production alternative. We probably can't use the FP Rank bug because I think it is fixed in 1.27, not to mention I'd prefer not to exploit anyway, so don't move palace unless the new location has an actual advantage.

Every turn a leader hangs around is one we can't get another. Don't remember if MA has any other benefit than the "allowed to build an army" one. Do we need anything else that costs a lot of shields? Or it might be better to just build a Cav army in case someone has a particularily strong defender.

Rome probably is the weakest of the big 3, but may not have used their GA, don't remember if they ever warred with the Ottomans while Legions were available. That's one disadvantage of not going ahead and triggering all the ancient ones when the chance presents itself...
 
OK, all parties heard from.

It's build the MA, then shop for more leaders. If one comes quickly (Egypt or early in Ottoman war), then build Cav Army. If late in the Ottoman war save for Smith's or Newton's.

After Egypy is gone, upgrade all Ansars (except Elites) to Cav and set to conquer Ottoman. Have troops end conquest in position to attack Rome.

Trade Metallurgy for Banking and research Physics (for Newton's).

I'll post the save late tonight (early tomorrow) for DaveShack to take over.

:beer:

PS: I hoping all of you will be able to join for the next SG. The Oda sound like a fun game to play.
 
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