What modern building would you put in your 4000BC settlement?

The sun rises on the year 4000BC. Since time immemorial, your people have lived a nomadic life. After years of wandering, they are ready to settle down and found your first city.

A time traveller arrives from 6,000 years in the future. They speak of Factories, and Research Labs, and Intelligence Agencies, and more. What advanced building will you have your visitors build? What anachronistic advantage will help you build a civilization to stand the test of time?

Also included are the important early buildings. What does an early Great Engineer mean when your AGG neighbour can start producing Cover Axemen the instant their suspiciously bare riverside hill is revealed to have Copper? And who cares about a +25% production bonus when you have a full-power whip without even bothering to research Pottery?

GAH. This is meant to have a poll. It's late and it's messed up. I give up and going to bed.

Mmmm. Probably something with free specialists attached, like the Research Institute (UB division) you cited, or the Industrial Park (non UB division). Those would make for a very early GS for an early Academy and huge research bonus, or an early GE for Pyramids or Great Lighthouse.

On some starts, a Dike would be very helpful. I'm trying to think how an early Airport (free airlifts, 1/turn) could be exploited during a prolonged rush.

If wonders are excluded, then maybe a levee if the start is right for it. A lot of free hammers up to the point where you can normally build it if you happen to have a nice rivered capital. As mentioned, Industrial Park would be nice too, for the free specialist. It's typically a building I don't build, though, even for space games, so I'm not ecstatic about it. Research Institute is even better, but depends if unique buildings are allowed.

+1 for a verrrrry long time with the Supermarket could be a decent deal too.

Pangaea said:

+1 for a verrrrry long time with the Supermarket could be a decent deal too.

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That's what I was going to say, the Supermarket seems like a good move because of the free food.

Airport would be an interesting idea for an early rush. The extra trade route wouldn't have much effect so early right?

Even without the GPP points, the Industrial Parks 2 free hammers give the supermarkets +1 food a run for their money. Especially since they speed up the first worker more, which has a snowball effect on the entire game. The GPP allow you to build a wonder for free, which is great. (Pyramids? Great Library?)

The supermarket gives a nice health boost, whereas Industrial Park costs health, but I feel that that is a minor thing.

It also depends on how you read the question. Initially I read it to mean “what advanced building would you want to magically appear in your first city”. But what the OP actually wrote is “What advanced building will you have your visitors build?” If hammers are a consideration, the argument against building a 150 (Supermarket) to 250 (Airport, Research Institute) hammer building is the same argument against building an early wonder. The Research Institute would be great if free, but otherwise it’s a much worse deal than the Great Library, which also provides 2 free scientists and costs substantially less than 250 hammers if you have Marble.

So, if I have to supply the hammers myself, probably a boring old Library. And even that wouldn’t be my initial build.

And if you could build them anywhere, Castles would be a pretty good alternative to building Monuments (if you are Protective and have Stone). Practically the same hammer cost, same culture, plus a trade route, defense bonus, and a mostly-inconsequential +25% to espionage.…

If you've got coastal foods, a Lighthouse will give you more of a boost than a Supermarket.

I reckon an Industrial Park would get you Pyramids and Great Library. Very strong boost to first workers, all those rapidly skipped early turns will quickly add up. I mean, turn 35 you get your GE. On higher difficulties, you'll struggle to get barb hunters in production before then. Then you've got a single turn build on a Wonder that'll get you +3 beakers from each of the three Engineers you'll soon be running. That's, what, 23 turns for your next GE? Struggle to get another Wonder worth rushing by then. Probably settle it, or bulb MC for a fourth Engineer if food's sufficient.

If not Industrial Park (any specialist is nice any time in game) than I would take Dike for my starts (reason is pretty obvious - 99,5% my capitals are coastal with 2-5 sea food staff). Add soon Moai too.. add in FIN trait... propably Colossus.. fish 6F2H4C tile before 1000 BC (if target for it..)...will try this for one game for sure

I didn't have much of an idea how to answer this when I first read the question however now I have read everyone else's ideas I am going to go with Industrial park. The plan being to GE rush the pyramids and max out engineer slots in the capital. Deep down I am a wonderwhore so this definitely appeals.

My first thought was Intelligence Agency and go EE but I think the wonderwhore approach is more flexible situationally and only really needs decent food in your capital which is almost guaranteed.

Is someone going to do the analysis and tell us the correct answer is a boring old granary?

Macksideshow said:

Is someone going to do the analysis and tell us the correct answer is a boring old granary?

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I have my suspicions this might be the case

Lexicus said:

I have my suspicions this might be the case

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I don't think so, Supermarket and Industrial Park are really excellent picks, with the Supermarket being better i. e. in a non-riverside OOC game while the Industrial Park will need to save some Forests to keep the city healthy, but a free Great Engineer for the Mids is imo. not beatable. Granaries are only good with Slavery and it's often the strongest strategy to skip everything and beeline Alpha and then trade for everything. 'til then, the capital is easily size 4 and can 2-pop-whip a Granary or 1-2 Workers can chop it, a GP, especially a GE is a different category in power imo.

Seraiel said:

I don't think so, Supermarket and Industrial Park are really excellent picks, with the Supermarket being better i. e. in a non-riverside OOC game while the Industrial Park will need to save some Forests to keep the city healthy, but a free Great Engineer for the Mids is imo. not beatable. Granaries are only good with Slavery and it's often the strongest strategy to skip everything and beeline Alpha and then trade for everything. 'til then, the capital is easily size 4 and can 2-pop-whip a Granary or 1-2 Workers can chop it, a GP, especially a GE is a different category in power imo.

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Where to after GE rushing the mids?

Granary on turn 1 in capital means quicker run to size 3/4 and then pump settlers/workers. No 2 pop whips or pre Math chops

Macksideshow said:

Where to after GE rushing the mids?

Granary on turn 1 in capital means quicker run to size 3/4 and then pump settlers/workers. No 2 pop whips or pre Math chops

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I don't understand the question. The mids greatly outweigh an earlier 2nd or 3rd city via Police State or REP and yes, directly going towards Alpha and not being able to whip or chop is good, what do you refer to with Maths? Chopping pre-Maths is necessary often, especially if it's a Granary, Worker or Settler.

Well, I did some minor test game with 4000 BC Industrial park.. Sorry for Mara speed but I used to it too much...
So I got 28xx BC Pyramids (was running 2nd engineer 1st 15 turns until workboat came out, after that pop 3 and 4 were engineers, after that came GLH (as usual ~2150 BC), 2nd Engineer bulbed MC, finished Colosus ~1750 BC, now running 2 scientists+2 (+1 free) engineers at size 6, waiting for Math to come in... This was soo massive start

I'm thinking that research institute is better than industrial park. You don't get much gain from mids that early, but the research institute effectively doubles your research from T0 with the 2 scientists and +25% research. With a phi leader you'll have an academy up on top of that before the first worker is out and make 28 bpt at a time when you normally make 10. Only downside with RI is that it'd make it very hard to get any other great people than scientists. But with research like that, you don't need anything else.

But this is all assuming a long teching game. In a fast conquest game the industrial park is better, just for the engineer hammers. Mids for PS come in handy as well.

Research Institute is a UB @ elitetroops .

Seraiel said:

Research Institute is a UB @ elitetroops .

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So? The rules don't exclude them and both research institute and dike are already mentioned in this thead.

RI basically turns you into Civ V Babylon

Okay, now question: IP brings an obvious snowballing bonus from the earliest possible Mids. The free Engineer IMO offsets the lower health cap - which assuming a well fed capital only really matters when your happy cap is enough to fill a cottage bureaucap's BFC. If it's a fair game between humans, nothing else is going to win the Mids race.

It's not our only option, though?

With a slower start, an Assembly Plant will run an extra Engineer in a mature GP farm. If we're not racing a human with IP, we're still getting Mids GEPs as well. And we're getting a production boost as well - which, if we have fish and a 3H tile, will rapidly narrow the gap with IP, and will synergise well with Police State chop rushes.

I'm thinking now about National Wonders. If you roll an Iron start, Ironworks will pay off well. Heroic Epic Inca or Persia could be beast. CHA leaders with West Point will get CRII; III with Barracks and a Barb kill; Boudicca' UU will be ninjas; PRO will get CGIII with barracks; Churchill will want Vassalage and Rifling ASAP. Five food start with Globe Theatre... be a fun Culture game with a couple of GA's settled in each of your three main cities. OU... wow, that'd be quite a tech rate, especially once the three Scientists are at work and an Academy online.