ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Yes, we need more cottages. Resist the urge to spread Hinduism unless there is an obvious immediate payout - a cultural victory is dependent on catching additional religions.
SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
SteelHorse
Deity
Agree on tech path of Constr/Alpha.
One thought on Tech is Espionage based. Perhaps leaving someone like Toku with one city infected with Hindu. And sending spies to steal what he gets from all his friends. The map also seems to be set up with us in between preventing all the AI from meeting one another. This also means slower tech given the no broker option.
w.r.t a cultural victory. If we can secure borders (and the map seems to be set up for this). It becomes possible. A nice walled city on a hill with heavily promoted LBs can go a long way. Maybe all the way to Cuirs.
Otherwise, if we can get AP, Diplo where we take a city and infect. Rinse, Repeat for each AI becomes an easier options than Dom IMHO.
One thought on Tech is Espionage based. Perhaps leaving someone like Toku with one city infected with Hindu. And sending spies to steal what he gets from all his friends. The map also seems to be set up with us in between preventing all the AI from meeting one another. This also means slower tech given the no broker option.
w.r.t a cultural victory. If we can secure borders (and the map seems to be set up for this). It becomes possible. A nice walled city on a hill with heavily promoted LBs can go a long way. Maybe all the way to Cuirs.
Otherwise, if we can get AP, Diplo where we take a city and infect. Rinse, Repeat for each AI becomes an easier options than Dom IMHO.
Trystero
Deity
OK - I think I've caught up. I agree with the Construction > Alphabet. Alpha will also make Currency cheaper. And, if we are building spies for scouting anyway, I agree with SH, we should be stealing techs (although Toku is no Mansa).
And I am also in agreement about building the AP. We bulbed Theo with that in mind, and losing the AP to the Buddhists would be fairly disastrous. If we are going to cottage around Bollywood, we should try to settle a city with some BFC overlap (maybe 1S of the copper?) so it can share cottage tiles.
From the screenshots, it looks like Kyoto is on a hill in the middle of the mountain range to the East. Is that right? If so, that would be a good blocking city. But we'd need to take it before Toku got LBs. Protective LBs on a hill would not be fun.
And I am also in agreement about building the AP. We bulbed Theo with that in mind, and losing the AP to the Buddhists would be fairly disastrous. If we are going to cottage around Bollywood, we should try to settle a city with some BFC overlap (maybe 1S of the copper?) so it can share cottage tiles.
From the screenshots, it looks like Kyoto is on a hill in the middle of the mountain range to the East. Is that right? If so, that would be a good blocking city. But we'd need to take it before Toku got LBs. Protective LBs on a hill would not be fun.
Just a note on religion spread... you cannot get religion spread unless you have trade route "capability" with the holy city of that religion. (Need a trade route access but can ignore whether or not you have open borders for spontaneous spread). Since we have not accessed any holy city except our own, we cannot get spontaneous spread of anything other than hindu or christian at this point. Hindu would save us a missionary, at least.
The problem with religion VC won't be spreading hindu, it will be getting at least one AI to Friendly. Note, if we have a Hindu AP, it might be possible to woo a few Tokus out of Bhudism into Hinduism... we'd have an opponent then, and need more votes. So still a long-shot and takes a bit of time... but feasible.
The AP can cause an awful lot of grief, though. "Declare war on the Heathens" would put us at the bottom of a dogpile. Give city back to its rightful owner would be a real PITA. And so on...
BTW: Yes, I am VERY worried about Toku refusing to take peace for peace if we wait even one turn. The reason is that he is making this offer as a result of the status at the end of last turn... when we were at peace with Babylon. If we wait even one turn, the extra war against us will make him demand something for peace again.. and the only thing he can demand at this point is Drona - a show-stopper. I think that's how it would work, but admit I am not 100% sure.
So I advise not to get greedy on pillaging... take the peace while we can.
I don't have the patience for micro optimization, so would either welcome help on that or like to hand off to the next player. Whichever.
The problem with religion VC won't be spreading hindu, it will be getting at least one AI to Friendly. Note, if we have a Hindu AP, it might be possible to woo a few Tokus out of Bhudism into Hinduism... we'd have an opponent then, and need more votes. So still a long-shot and takes a bit of time... but feasible.
The AP can cause an awful lot of grief, though. "Declare war on the Heathens" would put us at the bottom of a dogpile. Give city back to its rightful owner would be a real PITA. And so on...
BTW: Yes, I am VERY worried about Toku refusing to take peace for peace if we wait even one turn. The reason is that he is making this offer as a result of the status at the end of last turn... when we were at peace with Babylon. If we wait even one turn, the extra war against us will make him demand something for peace again.. and the only thing he can demand at this point is Drona - a show-stopper. I think that's how it would work, but admit I am not 100% sure.
So I advise not to get greedy on pillaging... take the peace while we can.
I don't have the patience for micro optimization, so would either welcome help on that or like to hand off to the next player. Whichever.
AAA
Warlord
My two cents on the situation would be that this game will play in many ways like an Always War game. We will be endlessly forced to take peace (of course there is no peace in always war 
)with one Toku to run our army across our land to smack the other Toku who is now attacking with a stack AGAIN. We'll only be free of them when no Tokunut is attached to us by land. Get construction-build cats-whack the stink out of them 
)with one Toku to run our army across our land to smack the other Toku who is now attacking with a stack AGAIN. We'll only be free of them when no Tokunut is attached to us by land. Get construction-build cats-whack the stink out of them
My two cents on the situation would be that this game will play in many ways like an Always War game. We will be endlessly forced to take peace (of course there is no peace in always war
I agree with your analysis and your proposed solution to it.
It doesn't bug me so much that the natives all have us as worst enemy and are all Toku so are prone to war with whoever is their closest non-Friendly neighbor whenever they feel like it... what really gets my goat is that they are all Friendly with each other. It really cuts off any chance of diplomatic tom-foolery on our part. The only diplomacy will be at the point of a stick.
Maybe if the AI found some religions (if it isn't also the founder of Bhudism) they could switch out and become reasonable (and cantankerous against their neighbors)... but other wise I don't see anything changing until Free Religion comes along.
Anyhow... cannot let them get to Mass Media or its all over but the crying.
So we have a time-horizon to deal with. I do not like protective bowmen, either. Lets kill Japan first.
I guess my plan for the next 10 turns would be to tech towards construction using binary research at max speed, max scientists hired. Switch to OR and infect Drona... Start on the AP in Drona asap. Chop and whip-overflow to speed the AP. Make units at steady pace in other places. Get out the 2 settlers and 2 FW's. And do whatever Xcal says in the micromanagement sector (except extending the wheat road
... heck, the wheat road itself would just get pillaged I think). Anyhow, no fighting except defense, pillage and get peace on this turn, walls for VJ get a couple hammers and then built to completion if not busy with something else. Settle cow site first, then one of the southern sites... not sure which of the two marked we have decided upon... I've heard conflicting advices there.
Anyhow... talk to me... if you don't think we can get to a green light within 3 days, then I need to pass to someone else.
Do we have a lower limit on how much cash to keep in the bank? In always war games its critical not to go on strike.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
OK, better safe than sorry on taking peace. Although, would it really be so bad if we stayed at war with Japan? We've got that stack in his land and they'll be pretty hard to hurt. How many units do we really need to pull from Drona to send up north? Hammy only has that one sword anywhere near our borders and we can probably hunker down in the forests for awhile. Just being devil's advocate here. I'd still take peace with Japan soon, but am tempted to prolong his discomfort a little more, and gain more intell.
Apart from that detail it sounds like we're all thinking pretty much alike. A religious victory may be impossible, but we can't let the AP fall into Buddhist hands. And without any trade routes we desperately need more cottages.
I'd vote for the bananas site after deer/cow--we can build some improvements before settling, like a river cottage to help with the maintenance charges. The fish site seems like it'll take longer to get going. What conflicting advice have you heard about where/when to settle?
Apart from that detail it sounds like we're all thinking pretty much alike. A religious victory may be impossible, but we can't let the AP fall into Buddhist hands. And without any trade routes we desperately need more cottages.
Yes, it likely will be pillaged, but in the meantime it might be useful to us and might delay/distract Hammy's units at a critical time. In any case, if you don't finish the road you'll lose a turn moving to the forest to finish the chop (assuming you'd be moving from a roadless tile into Vijay and then onto the forest) because of the funky crossing-a-river penalty we seem to have there, so you don't lose anything. [Edit: It's possible I'm only remembering this from the test game, which had a lot of WB monkeying--check things out with the GoTo button.]...except extending the wheat road
I'd vote for the bananas site after deer/cow--we can build some improvements before settling, like a river cottage to help with the maintenance charges. The fish site seems like it'll take longer to get going. What conflicting advice have you heard about where/when to settle?
Maybe keep a little extra until we see how much the new cities are going to cost us. Think about the tradeoffs of libraries vs scientists. And if we're planning a library anywhere (Delhi?), hoard cash until it's finished.Do we have a lower limit on how much cash to keep in the bank? In always war games its critical not to go on strike.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
kcd asked for help with PPP so here's my collation of what we've talked about:
Micro stuff:
General plan:
Micro stuff:
- Drona's borders will pop in 10 turns--anything useful we can do with that?
- Cancel all worker actions when you open the save.
- While Bolly is finishing the settler it can work the corn instead of a mine for +1 commerce.
- Switch Vijay to walls for 1 turn.
- Give Vijay the deer when it gets to pop2. Don't go below pop2 in case we need to whip walls.
- Make sure the forest chop will go to Vijay's granary (not Bombay).
- Figure out how urgently we want to finish the Vijay granary chop. Use GoTo to see if finishing the wheat road is turn-neutral before going to the forest.
- Gift unneeded resources to Shaka and/or Hattie?
- Note what Japan was/is researching. Did he finish HBR?
- Build cottages! Right now! The tile SE of Delhi needs only 1 more turn. Workers near Bolly probably need to cancel whatever they're doing and build cottages.
- What's our GP plan? Settle a Scientist? Save a Prophet to bulb CS after CoL? Can we plan things so some cities specialize in one kind?
- By Vijay, I'd try to hold our side of the river and/or the forests rather than retreat into our defenseless city and let them pillage the wheat. But do what you think best.
- Pillage Japan this turn, moving Woody2 to peak at Kyoto, then take peace. Unless you're feeling lucky and want to keep going.
General plan:
- Research Construction.
- Build cottages.
- Revolt to OrgRel when appropriate--need a Hindu missionary to go to Drona.
- Workboat sees what's on the other side of the mountains.
- Settle deer/cow site. Try to connect it before settling.
- Build 2 settlers and 2 FWs. Improve city sites before settling (as possible).
- Start AP in Drona when appropriate. (WasteMinder says put the temple overflow toward a FW and then start AP when Drona has Hindu/OrgRel--fewer turns stagnating and more efficient use of hammers. Some people might disagree.)
SteelHorse
Deity
A couple of thoughts and questions on the micro points:
* worker in queue in delhi is about to lose invested hammers, may want to switch back and do a 1 pop whip.
* how much will gifting resources get us? i know the basic of +1 diplo point after so many turns with a max of 2, but is there any chance it gets us out of worst enemy? if not, is there a point?
* on vijay hold other side of river, looks challenging with 3 tiles to cover. at least in the city we can get a wall and some fortify points. if we spread to cover three tiles we may be too thin to stop a stack.
* on the great prophet i prefer the shrine gpt+cult+ religion spread. on the sci agree with settling.
* agree on rest of points and kcd high-level plan.
Green from me.
On the question of getting an AI to vote for us. Is there any chance of getting an AI to switch to Hindu, by giving back a couple of cities taken in war after infecting, bribe to switch, and then using AP war on the heathen to get up he point of establishing a defensive pact, and trading tech, blah blah, blah, blah. Or are the hidden modifiers too much to overcome? Flipping Toku to the good side of the force could be very advantageous.
* worker in queue in delhi is about to lose invested hammers, may want to switch back and do a 1 pop whip.
* how much will gifting resources get us? i know the basic of +1 diplo point after so many turns with a max of 2, but is there any chance it gets us out of worst enemy? if not, is there a point?
* on vijay hold other side of river, looks challenging with 3 tiles to cover. at least in the city we can get a wall and some fortify points. if we spread to cover three tiles we may be too thin to stop a stack.
* on the great prophet i prefer the shrine gpt+cult+ religion spread. on the sci agree with settling.
* agree on rest of points and kcd high-level plan.
Green from me.
On the question of getting an AI to vote for us. Is there any chance of getting an AI to switch to Hindu, by giving back a couple of cities taken in war after infecting, bribe to switch, and then using AP war on the heathen to get up he point of establishing a defensive pact, and trading tech, blah blah, blah, blah. Or are the hidden modifiers too much to overcome? Flipping Toku to the good side of the force could be very advantageous.
Green.
I don't think gifting to our neighbors is a good investment.
Gifting to a far away Toku that also has another religion (how would we know?) is ok.
I probably won't be able to play this month. Don't know about April yet. Didn't even finish the BOTM
. How is it so many of us are so busry with RL right now? At least we increased team size and a few can still play.
I don't think gifting to our neighbors is a good investment.
Gifting to a far away Toku that also has another religion (how would we know?) is ok.
I probably won't be able to play this month. Don't know about April yet. Didn't even finish the BOTM
. How is it so many of us are so busry with RL right now? At least we increased team size and a few can still play.
Trystero
Deity
I can't remember any occasion where I got Toku to good terms short of adopting his religion and favorite civic (Mercantilism), Maybe being at war against a common foe, but that doesn't do us much good in the current circumstances. I think AAA's observation about this playing like an Always War game may be right on the mark.
The plan gets Green from me.
The plan gets Green from me.
kcd asked for help with PPP so here's my collation of what we've talked about:
Micro stuff:
- Drona's borders will pop in 10 turns--anything useful we can do with that?
- Cancel all worker actions when you open the save.
- While Bolly is finishing the settler it can work the corn instead of a mine for +1 commerce.
- Switch Vijay to walls for 1 turn.
- Give Vijay the deer when it gets to pop2. Don't go below pop2 in case we need to whip walls.
- Make sure the forest chop will go to Vijay's granary (not Bombay).
- Figure out how urgently we want to finish the Vijay granary chop. Use GoTo to see if finishing the wheat road is turn-neutral before going to the forest.
- Gift unneeded resources to Shaka and/or Hattie?
- Note what Japan was/is researching. Did he finish HBR?
- Build cottages! Right now! The tile SE of Delhi needs only 1 more turn. Workers near Bolly probably need to cancel whatever they're doing and build cottages.
- What's our GP plan? Settle a Scientist? Save a Prophet to bulb CS after CoL? Can we plan things so some cities specialize in one kind?
- By Vijay, I'd try to hold our side of the river and/or the forests rather than retreat into our defenseless city and let them pillage the wheat. But do what you think best.
- Pillage Japan this turn, moving Woody2 to peak at Kyoto, then take peace. Unless you're feeling lucky and want to keep going.
General plan:
- Research Construction.
- Build cottages.
- Revolt to OrgRel when appropriate--need a Hindu missionary to go to Drona.
- Workboat sees what's on the other side of the mountains.
- Settle deer/cow site. Try to connect it before settling.
- Build 2 settlers and 2 FWs. Improve city sites before settling (as possible).
- Start AP in Drona when appropriate. (WasteMinder says put the temple overflow toward a FW and then start AP when Drona has Hindu/OrgRel--fewer turns stagnating and more efficient use of hammers. Some people might disagree.)
Looks good. I was sure to forget some of that.
I think settle the GSci we get in 6 turns, speeding up construction. If its a GPro, then might as well make the Hindu Shrine with it. I think CS is too far away to save him for bulbing it... we'll have another couple chances for another by then.
As for the settling controversey, we all agree on the deer/cow next but I think AAA advocated settling 1s of the copper to aid cottage growth in Bolly, and borrow good tiles as needed. Low maint and already connected is the advantage. You want to do the crab/banana site as the follow-up. I am ambivalent, but considering our plan for massive arms race after construction, I feel the 1s of copper helps more. We can pause before that choice is made though.
I suggest a 2-pop whip of the FW in Dehli to avoid losing invested hammers in 2 turns. 2-pop is more efficient, and produces no more unhappy than a 1-pop. The 25h overflow would then complete the axe. We'd grow back to 3 immediately, and be able to sustain pop4 working 2 cottages, until we get more happiness there.
I agree that inside city walls is the easiest lace to defend from. But I did notice that Hamagawa has promoted his axes in Nippur to city raider... so the hill might be the best defensive bonus place anyhow.... but still, I prefer him attacking us than the other way around, assuming he just goes around that spot. So I vote inside the city.
Green.
I don't think gifting to our neighbors is a good investment.
Gifting to a far away Toku that also has another religion (how would we know?) is ok.
I probably won't be able to play this month. Don't know about April yet. Didn't even finish the BOTM
I agree... no point helping them out. Even if we get a +1 modifier, we will still be worst enemy and get DOW which erases it.
Yeah... the best we can hope for is that there is a war somewhere else before they meet us, pick a side, and join in. That would get a Toku happy pretty quick.
I summarize as a PPP just to keep things together. The folks who already gave a green can take it back if they see somethingh they want to stop, while I wait for Xcal to give the go-ahead.
Pre-Play Plan: t94-104
Goals: 2FW, 2settlers, cottage econ, build infra, tech construction, peace/defend until catapults, then kill Toku (maybe all 8 of them)
Actions:
Settle cow/deer with settler from Bolly
Tech towards Construction at max rate.
Build another settler in Dehli (2-pop whip FW, overflow 25h to settler, coplete axe while growing to pop4, finish settler)
Temple overflow in Drona to seconf FW.
After peace with Toku, leave 4-5 units in Drona (4 units in Toku lands will be available for this) and move rest northward for defense/peace with Babylon.
Civics:
Immediate switch to OR. We are building buildings and want to make at least one hindu missionary asap. We have no units that will be completed in Theo even if we waited a while.
Diplo:
Peace with toku this turn after pillage mine and look-see with woody2 axe.
No gifts, yes tributes of resources.
Take peace with Babylon if an even trade is possible.
Other:
Whip Hindu Missionary in Bombay at first opportunity. Make at least 1 or two more there as well.
Start AP in Drona when infected with Hindu.
Pause/stop conditions:
10t max
New DOW or something game-changing occurs
AP built iafal.
VJ is conquered (not on my watch!) or Osaka flips to us.
We meet an AI who is willing to trade stuff (I.E. not another Toku).
Goals: 2FW, 2settlers, cottage econ, build infra, tech construction, peace/defend until catapults, then kill Toku (maybe all 8 of them
)Actions:
Settle cow/deer with settler from Bolly
Tech towards Construction at max rate.
Build another settler in Dehli (2-pop whip FW, overflow 25h to settler, coplete axe while growing to pop4, finish settler)
Temple overflow in Drona to seconf FW.
After peace with Toku, leave 4-5 units in Drona (4 units in Toku lands will be available for this) and move rest northward for defense/peace with Babylon.
Civics:
Immediate switch to OR. We are building buildings and want to make at least one hindu missionary asap. We have no units that will be completed in Theo even if we waited a while.
Diplo:
Peace with toku this turn after pillage mine and look-see with woody2 axe.
No gifts, yes tributes of resources.
Take peace with Babylon if an even trade is possible.
Other:
Whip Hindu Missionary in Bombay at first opportunity. Make at least 1 or two more there as well.
Start AP in Drona when infected with Hindu.
Pause/stop conditions:
10t max
New DOW or something game-changing occurs
AP built iafal.
VJ is conquered (not on my watch!) or Osaka flips to us.
We meet an AI who is willing to trade stuff (I.E. not another Toku).
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Green to proceed with the plan! Nice catch on realizing we can't start the AP in Drona until it has our state religion. As for where to settle the second city, the deer city will overlap on one of Bolly's cottages. The main problem I see with settling S (or 2S)? of Bolly is that it's short on food, unless it takes it away from Bolly. Quarried marble is a 7-point tile (4H3C) that we'll want to work, but it has no food at all. A city S of the copper also means a city that can work the fish would be, IMO, less well placed. But as you say, we have some time to think about it.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Couldn't peek at Kyoto because a Japanese axeman was in the way. Got peace from Toku. BabyToku suicided 3 units against the walls of VJ, then offered peace for peace, which I accept. The axe in VJ can go to the gap now, unless its been taken over by culture borders.
Toku finished Math and is now 11t from Alphabet. He still has 9 units in Osaka, probably to prevent revolts. There is no WHEEOOHRN and I have verified by contacting them each. We still have 6t forced peace with Toku and 10t forced peace with Baby. Thats time for a lot of cats.
Hatsegawa is running away with tech. I wonder if they know Mansa Musa. Imagine 4 Toku's close and 4 Mansa's far.
Anyhow... we probably don't have to cross that bridge until we get to it.
The world's most powerful civs at t101: Toku is up there. We don't make the top 8. But that should change... we have construction in 1t if we run 60% science. t105... right on plan.
Got a GPro who built hindu shrine. Bombay needs to borrow deer to grow. Maybe we don't need the hindu missionaries now we have the shrine. I think one for VJ to pop its borders is probably useful or else we'll get settlers closer than we want (with cities that cannot be razed).
Drona has Hindu and is 13t from building the AP, but actually 12 with growth, maybe less if we want to whip that spear thats almost finished and overflow 17h to the AP (which I recommend, btw).
I think we should take construction in 1t. Then start focusing on cats while building the AP. The new city "Holy Cow" is probably the best place to do a lot of whipping. Bolly is to work cottages and should not be whipped. Drona is the best production site, but until the AP is done is busy with other things.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 525 BC to 275 BC:
Some screenies
View attachment 316778 View attachment 316779 View attachment 316780 View attachment 316781 View attachment 316782
Edit to add: Remember its back to Theocracy as soon as AP is completed, if not sooner.
Toku finished Math and is now 11t from Alphabet. He still has 9 units in Osaka, probably to prevent revolts. There is no WHEEOOHRN and I have verified by contacting them each. We still have 6t forced peace with Toku and 10t forced peace with Baby. Thats time for a lot of cats.
Hatsegawa is running away with tech. I wonder if they know Mansa Musa. Imagine 4 Toku's close and 4 Mansa's far.
Anyhow... we probably don't have to cross that bridge until we get to it.The world's most powerful civs at t101: Toku is up there. We don't make the top 8. But that should change... we have construction in 1t if we run 60% science. t105... right on plan.
Got a GPro who built hindu shrine. Bombay needs to borrow deer to grow. Maybe we don't need the hindu missionaries now we have the shrine. I think one for VJ to pop its borders is probably useful or else we'll get settlers closer than we want (with cities that cannot be razed).
Drona has Hindu and is 13t from building the AP, but actually 12 with growth, maybe less if we want to whip that spear thats almost finished and overflow 17h to the AP (which I recommend, btw).
I think we should take construction in 1t. Then start focusing on cats while building the AP. The new city "Holy Cow" is probably the best place to do a lot of whipping. Bolly is to work cottages and should not be whipped. Drona is the best production site, but until the AP is done is busy with other things.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 525 BC to 275 BC:
Spoiler :
Some screenies
View attachment 316778 View attachment 316779 View attachment 316780 View attachment 316781 View attachment 316782
Edit to add: Remember its back to Theocracy as soon as AP is completed, if not sooner.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Alrighty then! Nice job, kcd! Who's up next?
I haven't opened the save but here are some thoughts, observations, and provocations to get discussion going. Do we really need to be building 2 Hindu missionaries? [Edit: Especially since we'll be able to run artists under Caste when we get CoL--they can pop Vijay's borders in no time. Of course, spreading Hinduism has other benefits, but I think we need other stuff more urgently.] Bombay needs a granary so it can grow, and lots of farms. It has 6 hills that could potentially be mined, making it a real powerhouse, but it needs to grow.
Exploration by sea is blocked in the south. We can either risk our WB trying to get by Hammy next time we're at war or save it for one of the two seafoods on our southern coast. With the need to concentrate on cats, though, another settler is probably a ways off. I think the WB would keep our south fogbusted, though, letting the scout go explore up north.
Osaka has 20% culture now, so no chance at all of flipping. I was hoping we could at least take over the forest next to it for chopping, but no go. Kagoshima was settled 1W of where it should be--now the fish to its east will not be in any BFC. Stupid AI.
When we get Construction, shall we go slow on research? We'd do CoL, I assume. Bolly's sci's could be changed to priests (to improve the odds of a Prophet to bulb CS after CoL, and also contribute a hammer and gold each), or they could be sent to the mines to build cats. If we pop another Scientist it will bulb Philosophy--do we want that? In any case, Bolly should keep growing so it can 2-whip a cat when it exceeds its happy cap.
It's good that Toku is researching Alpha, right? That way we can extort techs from him for peace.
Nice job, kcd! Who's up next?I haven't opened the save but here are some thoughts, observations, and provocations to get discussion going. Do we really need to be building 2 Hindu missionaries? [Edit: Especially since we'll be able to run artists under Caste when we get CoL--they can pop Vijay's borders in no time. Of course, spreading Hinduism has other benefits, but I think we need other stuff more urgently.] Bombay needs a granary so it can grow, and lots of farms. It has 6 hills that could potentially be mined, making it a real powerhouse, but it needs to grow.
Exploration by sea is blocked in the south. We can either risk our WB trying to get by Hammy next time we're at war or save it for one of the two seafoods on our southern coast. With the need to concentrate on cats, though, another settler is probably a ways off. I think the WB would keep our south fogbusted, though, letting the scout go explore up north.
Osaka has 20% culture now, so no chance at all of flipping. I was hoping we could at least take over the forest next to it for chopping, but no go. Kagoshima was settled 1W of where it should be--now the fish to its east will not be in any BFC. Stupid AI.
When we get Construction, shall we go slow on research? We'd do CoL, I assume. Bolly's sci's could be changed to priests (to improve the odds of a Prophet to bulb CS after CoL, and also contribute a hammer and gold each), or they could be sent to the mines to build cats. If we pop another Scientist it will bulb Philosophy--do we want that? In any case, Bolly should keep growing so it can 2-whip a cat when it exceeds its happy cap.
It's good that Toku is researching Alpha, right? That way we can extort techs from him for peace.
AAA
Warlord
I wonder if neil has created some sort of weird water maze with all those mountains 
.
.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Unless the yellow/red status of Deckhand, HKJJ, Rusten, or Chris has changed, I do believe that AAA would be next up.Say... who's up now? It will be a turnset with lots of whipping/chopping I think.
This also fits in with his being the first to respond after I asked. Sorry, I haven't yet opened the save to look at things closely--having too much "fun" with BOTM52. Then again, I really should give other people a chance to comment, don't you think?
Bueller? Beuller? Anyone? Anyone?
Trystero
Deity
I thought we were going to tech Alphabet after Construction? Do we need CoL yet, considering we are mostly on a war footing? I realize Toku is researching Alpha, so we could potentially extort it from him, but that seems a ways off. And I thought the plan was to build spies? The other tech I think we might consider is Iron Working. Swords would certainly help if we had iron, and if we don't, it's location might help prioritize settling plans.
