The War Room

@Silu,
Nice. IMP settlers obviously go well with a successful early choke.
I completely forgot about the defensive bonuses thing with Immortals, not having played them in quite some time. :eek2:

@v8,
I tend to agree with your estimation. The nerfing of GLH supports it, as well. We're not isolated, though, I'd think.
 
Just a random thought: how good of a strategy would it be to "accidently" drop some not-so-true intel on our plans? The only way I could see this be feasible would be having a very inexperienced player insinuate something...somewhere. I have no experience with this kind of game, so I'm just saying what pops into my head...;)
 
I am curious, how many turns do you think it will take Ragnar to get the circumnav bonus (without any intervention?).

I still wonder if it's feasible to make a plan to stop him in time with triremes. We may actually be able to get it ourselves, but we'd have such a late start :(
 
For all we know circumnav might not be possible until Optics anyway.
 
its also very likely that we can stop other teams from passing by simply by NOT opening borders... ...if that isnt viable, i dont see how we could stop them with triremes, cause that would mean that you could circumnavigate without passing by our cities... ...and sending out heaps (or 2) triremes just to scout possible passages... ...:crazyeye:... ...where should the production for them come from;)
 
50 hammers per trireme. Our capital could build/whip two of them after the granery. One heads West and the other East. If no one lets us pass, we just DoW anyway and pass. How the hell is anyone going to stop triremes, I'd like to seriously see them do that. Are they going to whip 3 or 4 galleys to attack us, just to sink us because we are tresspassing? Even the Amazons shouldn't be that incompatent.
 
For all we know circumnav might not be possible until Optics anyway.

Still wouldn't hurt to try - besides finding who's where on the map, even in a general sense would be vital intel. Bare minimum I'd say three triremes - one each for scout/explore east and west and a third to stay behind to kill trespassing units/barbs.
 
i cant convince myself to like the concept of investing hammers in triremes going somewhere... ...far away... ...seems a waist to me... ...my usual doing would be:

1. get 1 wb out fast, to find some neighbours (cheap...)
2. dont piss of my neighbours and always ask politely if i can pass through
3. if i can take the circum... ...fine, if not... ...fine
4. be prepared to chop a trireme in one of mycostal cities (preechop and road 2 forests + have the possibility to get 10 hammers in 1 turn) to take on "intruders"

i never ever would actively piss off my neighbours, cause winning or loosing in most (all?) games vs HI (im refering to games NOT in the lobby, games without timer like pbm, pitboss, demogames) depends on your diplo (thats also a reason why i dont understand the banning of the greatlighthouse... ...usually the civ building it ends up with no open boders, no techtrades, and lots of enemies, so in most hi games its... ...not so cool to have it, cause you tend to be isolated pretty fast:lol:)

EDITH wants to add on a side note for the greatlighthouse (glh):
usually you end up having currency traded or researched by turn 90+/- with techtrade allowed. so you will have 2 traderoutes of 3 gold with foreign civs... ...with the glh you will have in most cases 3 internal traderoutes with 2 gold, from say turn 80 on (you need to build the thing AND get 3 cities up on islands) and you will fall behind in tech due to isolation at least a little so currency for you comes later... ...i dont really see the glh beeing overpowerded in hi games but well... ...i wouldnt advise to build it anyways, so cant say i really care...
 
i never ever would actively piss off my neighbours, cause winning or loosing in most (all?) games vs HI (im refering to games NOT in the lobby, games without timer like pbm, pitboss, demogames) depends on your diplo (thats also a reason why i dont understand the banning of the greatlighthouse... ...usually the civ building it ends up with no open boders, no techtrades, and lots of enemies, so in most hi games its... ...not so cool to have it, cause you tend to be isolated pretty fast:lol:)

Exactly this. Especially with tech trading on, diplomacy becomes the number 1 aspect to this game.
 
From my understanding about pitboss games, people are always DoWing just to kill everyone else's cheap workboat. So I don't see the big harm as everyone should understand.

Also, for less than half the investment extra of a workboat, we can get a trireme.

Anyhow, since the circumnav doesn't seem that special to you Snaaty, just wait until Ragnar gets it much later... I think everyone may look at this differently then:p Hopefully we can get some sort of block-faction against them. It should be expected, but people often get stuck into prisoner-dilema problems, and someone always gives in eventually.

By the war, the Oracle issue worries me now, particularly after this new lighthouse change. There will be much more focus on oracle without the lighthouse, and I'm sure it's already been suggested to most (if not all) the teams by now about an Oracle --> MC plan for Collossus, PARTICULARLY amoung the financial leaders (sad to say is most of our enemies).
 
From my understanding about pitboss games, people are always DoWing just to kill everyone else's cheap workboat. So I don't see the big harm as everyone should understand.

People do it, but there's always a diplomatic cost. There's likely to be a set of alliances within the game - a large part of the game will be won and lost on this basis. If we anger the wrong people, and we wind up on the wrong end of a 2v1 on our continent or somesuch... well, it doesn't look such a good deal suddenly.

By the war, the Oracle issue worries me now, particularly after this new lighthouse change. There will be much more focus on oracle without the lighthouse, and I'm sure it's already been suggested to most (if not all) the teams by now about an Oracle --> MC plan for Collossus, PARTICULARLY amoung the financial leaders (sad to say is most of our enemies).

I would doubt that, out of the blocks, anyone will be able to get Oracle before us, particularly if they want MC from it. We start with Mysticism, which is a huge advantage for a super-early Oracle gambit. Our start is going to be geared almost wholly towards getting the Oracle.
 
I would doubt that, out of the blocks, anyone will be able to get Oracle before us, particularly if they want MC from it. We start with Mysticism, which is a huge advantage for a super-early Oracle gambit.

We start with Myst, but have to research aggriculture anyway... and the guy with aggriculture only has to research Myst. It's a wash!

Also, from reading the Lighthouse thread on the public forum, I see now that indeed many people are complaining about exactly this, the collossus is going to be over-powered. It doesn't matter if the wonder really is, or isn't. This is what THEY tend to believe right now. So you can bet on it, this Oracle-MC shot is being talked about in many of the other private forums.

How many actually end up pursuing it is another story. But I have high doubts the Amazons are going to do that. They want to capture it maybe... haha! But the financial leaders would love to have it, they always want it.
 
We'll see how it goes by following the demographics closely. If someone founds a religion early, well, we know what goes next. We can't really get it any faster than we're already planning for, so no reason to worry about that which we cannot change. ;)
 
Actually, we CAN get it faster by using more chops on the trees in the West and ignoring Mono IIRC, but then we sacrifice a bunch of things, which is the problem.
 
I support Obsolete's idea of getting triremes and using those for blocking scouting from other civs, since it looks like archy map and there should be some chokepoints. But on the other hand, I'm not sure how wise it would be that we DOW on someone who doesn't want us to scout their land.

If it happens that we do DOW, than we can pillage like crazy.

And pardon my ignorance, when does the blockade option becomes available?
 
^ You can blockade from the get-go with Galleys and Triremes. Might be an important aspect here, denying intercontinental(+ international) routes can be a huge economy hit.

That island find makes me think that our home island is safe from invasion until Astro, but can still reach a common "playground" due to culture. I don't think it's a coincidence that you can only reach that island with culture, and with 1 borderpop exactly from the no-brainer in-spot settle or the next best seafood-gamble capital spot. Would be good news for us :)
 
It looks like the first priority the war department had, has now blown over. There is no defense plan needed for Imps anymore. However…

I am becoming very, very, very trigger itchy for a naval war now that we have a great chance for an early un-touchable trireme navy, at half-price manufacture BTW. We will have to contest with our neighbours eventually, so why not now in our prime, and keep them crippled for the rest. No one is going to have alphabet for a while anyway.

Operation Trireme?
 
By half-price you mean PS+Forge? To get the nitpicking out of the way that would make for "67%-price" boats :) Taking the full advantage of our possible early Triremes would be nice, though 1) I don't think we can really say this way or that before knowing more about the map 2) MC will be a big, big priority for the other Civs to slow-research as well, so we should be wary of vengeful 3-move Viking boats if things go that way :)
 
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