Help me with diplomatic victory in king

so here is how it goes,

I use Dutch for this diplomatic game. I was planning to play peacefully and tall
i start off in a quite nice spot with some marshes for my polder, up to my north i discover a desert for my second city, then i plan to build petra ASAP. I also got 3 CS near me which is nice because i play diplomatic.

To my west there is a damn songhai. and i dont wanna start any tension with him since i want to play peacefully. I manage to get along with him in early game with only minor border problem.

And up to my far north, there are america and brazil which im fine with.

for technology, since i play in king, i want to research currency ASAP for petra and build it with my great engineer from liberty closing, and i manage to done so, but the side effect is i kinda late with my army (which i think is Ok since i play peacefully)

To this point of the game i manage well, trading a lot of luxury and getting exceed happyness thanks to Dutch's UA, and also friend with america and brazil.

After i got my Petra, i try to finish my navigation, and producing the sea beggar soon.

By the time i got my astronomy and enter deep ocean, i find out that Atilla was across the ocean near me, and he annex a coastal Cs city, and also venice capital, damn warmonger (which is in my favour since i can easily liberate 2 of them with some of my sea beggar)

By the time world congress started, i already allied with 10ish CS including those 2 i liberate from atilla.

I have 3 cities so far, and all of them growing tall thanks to polder, realizing i got some financial problem, i decided to build my fourth city.

So far the game was going very well for me, my score wasnt so bad and i manage to get 16 delegates at some point in world congress (i was always the host). I was confident im gonna win the world leader vote this way. And my happiness reach 50 (i want to trade luxury but seems like i already trade most of them, so i cant anymore)

And i also avoid war if possible.

Until at turn 400-ish, The damn Songhai decided to attack me thats my turning point. with my inferior land army i can do nothing, the best i got is artilerry and land ship, and he attack me with SAM mobile bazooka, and some plane. My naval army can do absolutely nothing at this point. And i immediately exit the game after that, lol

So, whats wrong with my playstyle? how can i keep up with my army if i intend to play peacefully/diplomatically + i need to save money to bribe CS rather than upgrading unit?

thanks in advance

Upgrade units first. You don't need money for CS, if you loose.
Build walls, castle and settle some artillery in and around your cities, reach flight and build one or two fighter per cities in front-line. Set them in intercept mode.
Spend money to bribe AI to attack them each other.
After modern era, you'll have over 100 gpt. So it's a good deal to spend 30 or 40 gpt to be in peace. Also if you have over 10 happiness, you can sell luxs to an AI to save gold.
Don't retire until you loose your caps. I mean, an AI conquer it, not when there's some units around. Target first melee units.

ok i guess its my mistake ignoring military, i have some more question
1. Is it ok to rush important wonder right away? (like petra) since king's AI is insanely fast
2. Is liberty/patronage/commerce a good social policy for diplomatic dutch?

thanks in advance

1. Yes, it's a gamble. I try it sometimes on Deity, nearly always in Immortal. So King, always. You need it up before T80-90 if you want avoid an AI rush with engineer. My path is writing - currency - philo.
2. No, it isn't. Liberty is bad if you want to go tall. tradition - rationalism is optimal. You can put some points in patronage before renaissance or to have access to forbidden palace. No need of commerce. Just build caravans/cargo ships. If you're afraid about barbs, send food to your 4 cities and build Machu Pichu.
With Tradition legalism - land elite - monarchy then aristocracy. With 2 or 3 cities, it will be up when you'll start to build Petra.

but from what i get, dutch's UA need you to get as many lux as possible to trade, isnt going liberty is good for that? correct me if im wrong

but i'll also try tradition later, thanks for the input haha

Not really, Dutch UA is useful to sell lux early without disadvantage. You lose 2 happiness instead 4 if you sell your last lux copy.
Strength of Tradition is growth and gold you'll have.
Gold : Free culture building (4 gpt) + Free aqueduct (4 gpt) + Monarchy (1 gpt for 2 pop so at the end with caps 24, it's free 12 gpt).
Growth : free aqueduct around T80-100, + 2 food with land Elite, + 25% growth in capital (land elite and finisher).
If you really need gold, build trading post instead farms on grassland after plastics. And Polder are insane after Economics. With a Petra capital, with Dutch you can win with this only town.

IMHO, Liberty is good if, after testing Tradition, you're easier with it, or simply love it. Or if you need to have a fast start (jungle, archipelagoes, early domination). End Liberty with a GE seems nice (a free wonder), but a GS, Prophet or Amiral is many times better. Sometimes, I take GE with Liberty but to make a manufactory (early +4 hammers can help a lot and later +5 or +9 are still nice).

pandasaurus21 said:

ok i guess its my mistake ignoring military, i have some more question
1. Is it ok to rush important wonder right away? (like petra) since king's AI is insanely fast
2. Is liberty/patronage/commerce a good social policy for diplomatic dutch?

thanks in advance

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1. Depends on the Wonder, as some have more competition than others (in my games, Chichen Itza and Parthenon are taken very quickly). Petra tends to be doable, but since desert cities are slow building it, it's worth it.

2. When I first played the Dutch, I went Liberty, thinking I needed to secure luxes and marshes, but I regretted it, as I only ended up building 4 cities, and in places without much competition, at that. I realised it means the Settler is the only reason I took Liberty. Tradition serves them better, as they play tall better than wide (though feel free to try and dip into Liberty to get Republic and the Settler, it can be done. You just don't really need the rest of the Liberty tree).

The Dutch UA is still really good with a moderate amount of luxes, though, the amount you get with 4-5 cities should serve you well.

As for your current problem, you don't need a big land army, you just need to have one that's capable of good defence. Unfortunately, I can't give you substantial advice, as I don't go to war much during the later eras. Try paying someone to go to war with Askia.

JonnasN said:

1. Depends on the Wonder, as some have more competition than others (in my games, Chichen Itza and Parthenon are taken very quickly). Petra tends to be doable, but since desert cities are slow building it, it's worth it.

2. When I first played the Dutch, I went Liberty, thinking I needed to secure luxes and marshes, but I regretted it, as I only ended up building 4 cities, and in places without much competition, at that. I realised it means the Settler is the only reason I took Liberty. Tradition serves them better, as they play tall better than wide (though feel free to try and dip into Liberty to get Republic and the Settler, it can be done. You just don't really need the rest of the Liberty tree).

The Dutch UA is still really good with a moderate amount of luxes, though, the amount you get with 4-5 cities should serve you well.

As for your current problem, you don't need a big land army, you just need to have one that's capable of good defence. Unfortunately, I can't give you substantial advice, as I don't go to war much during the later eras. Try paying someone to go to war with Askia.

Click to expand...

not only the settler though, the great engineer is nice to rush some wonder haha.

already tried bribe someone to fight Askia, the problem is, they got the best military in this game, brazil and america wont even bother to fight Askia no matter how much i pay them haha

i guess i'll just start over with tradition

And what are good units for defending? as i prefer to go naval with dutch

pandasaurus21 said:

And what are good units for defending? as i prefer to go naval with dutch

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ANy ranged unit does the trick... Having 2/3 of them (and attack selectively, not killing, so they block themselves by going int "defensive healing mode") on king basically demolish any attack they can throw at you...

If you're near warmongering AIs getting crossbows should be a priority after university.

Since you're having trouble with modern era units, it's best to deal with your main problem. SAMs, Bazookas and Planes can't capture cities by themselves, so if their close-range units are few in number, you can still have a shot to stop them.

I would say you focussed on the wrong thing at the wrong time (I fall into that trap too, I'm borderline Immortal player). For a DV, you only need the CS as allies the turn before the vote, as that's when delegates are assigned .

This is when mobile units become useful... Mobile units can move up to 5x sometimes and can quickly drive into a city for the capture and when its defenses are down.

corranhorn01 said:

I would say you focussed on the wrong thing at the wrong time (I fall into that trap too, I'm borderline Immortal player). For a DV, you only need the CS as allies the turn before the vote, as that's when delegates are assigned .

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so how do people actuaally do that?

im afraid if i wait till later, the other civ gonna have tons of friend point with them

I don't play much King. I think I played like 3-4 games on it and went up to Emperor, but the AI don't seem to focus on the CS much at that level (unless there is Greece, Venice or who ever Isabel leads). So just save money and start buying them with like 5 turns to go? Also, do all the quests. If you pledge to protect and get the patronage policy (the one that give +20 as a resting point) you have a resting point of +25 influence, that'll make it easier.

If you are not playing militaristically, you should not build siege units. Ranged units are much better at defending (archers/gatling/machine guns).

For diplo, its smart to get Forbidden Palace, WorldFair/Ideology.

Dont be afraid to attack people if they are a threat or in the way. You can win diplo with war.

You can keep city states as allies when you declare war on any diplomatic victory threatening civilization. The civilization you're at war with won't be able to take away your allies.