Community City-State Master List

So recently with the loads and loads of new civilizations, there have been odd conflicts in city-state names, such as multiple civs replacing the same one with different names, or replacing different ones to have the same! (notable example being a recent game with the Three Montevideos right next to each other...and Uruguay is being made into a civ!)

My solution is a master override list for city-states that changes as the community makes more civs and is adjusted in accordance with what's appropriate and sensible. I don't actually have modding skills myself so it'd fall to someone else to actually implement this, but it should be a simple matter...right?



My sort of guidelines for these are simple - I want all of them to represent states which have, at least at some point, been distinctly identifiable and independent (so, no Salt Lake City or Independence, as tempting as they are for Religious, there's not a point you could say they were truly independent polities) and to avoid being on the lists of existing civs - thusly the exclusion of say, Reykjavik, Dakar, or Naples due to being present on Denmark, Songhai, and JFD's Italy respectively. The sixteen columns are for the sixteen colors CSs have assigned to them, so all should be of equal frequency.

The means of editing the little theme tunes they have is currently unknown but that's not a very big deal. If possible, I'd like the cities and the overarching 'name' of a CS that shows up in the sidebar to be different - so Windhoek of Namibia, Male of The Maldives, Dhaka of Bangladesh, etc. This should be simple to my knowledge! Also I'll put up little pedia entries for the new ones, nothing big or complex, just like, "Suva is the capital of Fiji and one of the largest cities in Oceania. It was founded in blablablah and has so and so, and Fiji did this and that, never becoming colonized by outside powers and instead reforming into a modern state independently from ancient origins."

Moderator Action: Moved to main C&C forum.

I'm really interested in this idea. I have problems with my city-states as well, so I'd like to do what I can to help this along. I'm also code-stupid, so I'm not sure what I can add though.

I'm a little confused by your list. There should be less Militaristic and Religious City-States than the other three types as proportionally there are less in the game. Also, you're including cities such as Baghdad on your list. Baghdad is already in the city lists of a few of the official civs. I think another prerequisite should be avoiding using cities as city-states that can be readily identified with one or more of the existing civs (even if they were independent at one point). Which is another thing to look out for, even if a mod civ isn't creating a city-state with a name, that doesn't mean they aren't using the cities as part of their city lists. For example, I believe the Kilwa and Oman mods use several of the Swahili city-states (Zanzibar, Mombasa, etc.) in their city lists, the Phoenician mod uses Byblos, the Benin mod uses Lagos (and maybe also replaces Ife?), etc.

However, with that said, I do approve of the effort and direction of the mod and hope something comes of it. On a technical side, the biggest hurdle might be ensuring that this mod always loads last.

Gyra Solune said:

My solution is a master override list for city-states that changes as the community makes more civs and is adjusted in accordance with what's appropriate and sensible.

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The moving target aspect makes this a difficult maintenance task. It seems a better solution to get the new-civ modders to not replace city states; to merely delete them as many new-civ mods do; then suggest an existing pack like City States Expansion (which Hiram has updated several times to remove overlaps).

Gyra Solune said:

I don't actually have modding skills myself so it'd fall to someone else to actually implement this, but it should be a simple matter...right?

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Simple to mod, but as I said above, a pain to maintain.

Gyra Solune said:

The means of editing the little theme tunes they have is currently unknown but that's not a very big deal.

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I'm pretty sure that's not true. It's just finding the tunes for obscure city states is a pain.

turingmachine said:

However, with that said, I do approve of the effort and direction of the mod and hope something comes of it. On a technical side, the biggest hurdle might be ensuring that this mod always loads last.

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To lessen some of the pain of maintenance of mod references, SQL Triggers can be used. But in this case, I'm not sure why it's necessary.

For my purposes [CSL2 Mod Support], I've collected where many civ mods have replaced city states (though, as I said above, many mods simply delete offending city states). I'm sure I've missed a few, as new civs appear all the time:
Montevideo - "Argentina Civilization" by Leugi
Tblisi - "The Kingdom of Armenia" by JFD
Dubai - "Colonialist Legacies: Australia Civilization" by TPangolin et al.
Montevideo [old] - ""
Honiara - ""
Nuuk - "Colonialist Legacies: Canada Civilization" by TPangolin et al.
St. Johns - ""
Quito - "Gran Colombia Civilization" by Leugi
San Juan - ""
Pristina - "Hungary" by LastSword
Tripoli - "The Kingdom of Hungary" by JFD
Balkh - "Israel Civilization" by Leugi
Haifa-Akka - "LS Civilization Set II: Kingdom of Jerusalem" by LastSword
Luba - "Kongo" by Tomatekh et al.
Gasteiz - "Latvia" by Hiram
Dorpat - "The Grand Duchy of Lithuania" by JFD
Kition - "LS Civilization Set VI: Lithuania" by LastSword
Montevideo - "LS Civilization Set IV: Kingdom of Nepal" by LastSword
Salasar - "LS Civilization Set V: Olmec Empire" by LastSword
Taipei - "Colonialist Legacies: Philippines Civilization" by TPangolin et al.
Abu Dhabi - "Phoenicia Civ" by the Mayor of steve
Kuwait City - ""
Mozambique [Maputo] - ""
Cyrene - "Phoenician Civilization" by sukritact et al.
Galatia - ""
Syracuse - ""
Napata - "LS Civilization Set III: Phoenician Empire" by LastSword
La Paz - "LS Civilization Set VIII: Romania Civ" by LastSword
Lubeck - "The Swiss Confederacy" by JFD
Thimphu - ""
Varanasi - "Tibetan Civilization" by Pouakai
Sarnarth - "LS Civilization Set VIII: Tibetan Empire" by LastSword
Basel-Stadt - "LS Civilization Set III: Timurid Empire" by LastSword
Mantua - "Tuscan Civilization" by sukritact
Minsk - "Kievan Rus" [Ukraine] by Tomatekh
Toronto - "LS Civilization Set I: Hetmanate" by LastSword
Touba - "LS Civilization Set II: The Papal States" by LastSword

As you say, there were 3 Montevideos, though TPangolin switched to Honiara in a later version of Australia.

I've since made a few changes to my city-state replacements (namely switching Thimphu and Tripoli out for European CSs, to fit the music themes better, and the addition of city-states to support Belgium and the Papal States). The most up to date account of my city-state replacements are in the OP in my thread:

Andorra la Vella - Replaces Brussels for the Kingdom of Belgium.
Dorpat - Replaces Vilnius for the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
Karyes - Replaces Vatican City for the Papal States.
Lubeck - Replaces Bern for the Confederacy of Switzerland.
Lviv - Replaces Budapest for the Kingdom of Hungary.
Sarajevo - Replaces Geneva for the Confederation of Switzerland.
Tbilisi - Replaces Yerevan for the Kingdom of Armenia.
Vaduz - Replaces Antwerp for the Kingdom of Belgium.

I'll put a list here of possible City States for civs I doubt will ever be made:

Liechtenstein
Rey Bouba
Nan Madol
Palmares
Piratini
Ailigandi
El Bolsón
Laguna
Mutsamudu
Enugu
Bisho
Sark
Ajdir
Kasese
Vedeno
Temir-Khan-Shura

Yeah, mostly american ones, but hopefully someone will find a good use for this list.

Heck, might as well add my CS replacements to the list!

CURRENT CS REPLACEMENTS:
Echmiadzin - Replaces Geneva for Switzerland
Nicosia - Replaces Zurich for Switzerland

TO-BE-ADDED CS REPLACEMENTS:
Amman - Will replace Bogota for Gran Colombia
Barbados - Will replace Riga for Livonia
Benghazi - Will replace Budapest for the Magyars
Iasi - Will replace Brussels for Belgium
Palmyra - Will replace Antwerp for Belgium
Vaduz - Will replace Prague for Bohemia
Zagreb - Will replace Yerevan for Georgia

Now obviously I'm going to need to fill in those spots; I'll edit this post as needed as I figure out some new CSs to use.
EDIT: Well that went quick

The first paragraph of post #4 was tough to see because of a bad QUOTE tag (that I just fixed).
So, since a few of the more prolific civ makers are already here, I'll reiterate: What's wrong with you guys just deleting city states instead [from now on] and recommending an expansion pack like Hiram's for those that use lots of modded civs?

Practically anything Japanese is already my territory... so no Ishikari, "Ainu", "Ryukyu", Shuri, Kanazawa, Azai, Tsushima... anything of the sort.

Nutty said:

What's wrong with you guys just deleting city states instead [from now on] and recommending an expansion pack like Hiram's for those that use lots of modded civs?

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The reason for this is simple: It alters the proportion of city-states in the game.

There are less religious and militaristic city-states, so they are less likely to appear on a map, while there are the same number of maritime, mercantile, and cultured city-states so they are all equal as likely to appear on a map. Deleting or adding to the amount of city-states skews these numbers, and, while it may be a change that most people won't notice, it is a change to the base mechanics that I don't think should be forced on someone just for using a mod civ. (It would perhaps be most noticeable with extra religious city-states as they can easily impact the early game pantehon/religion race).

Plus, I'd hate to download a mod that should be standalone and it tells me to use more mods to make up for something the first mod removed from the game.

Hoop Thrower said:

I'll put a list here of possible City States for civs I doubt will ever be made:

Liechtenstein
Rey Bouba
Nan Madol
Palmares
Piratini
Ailigandi
El Bolsón
Laguna
Mutsamudu
Enugu
Bisho
Sark
Ajdir
Kasese
Vedeno
Temir-Khan-Shura

Yeah, mostly american ones, but hopefully someone will find a good use for this list.

Click to expand...

Nan Madol/Pohnpei is on my to-do list.

Hey guys I created most of this already, If you want it pop me a message and il give it to you, in addition I also removed all default city states (Or disabled it) using an awesome mod or a way found by one of the guys on this forum, so that even when the game starts and on set up screen it will only load these 41 city states that I merged with some of the ones I created my own so I always know which city states will come in the game



The above is the actual city states real world name with its relative capital CITY as the CITY NAME, well its a form of representation on my game world. I initially created it so that i can mimic my MOD from Clash of Civilizations for CIV IV but unfortunately have no real time to concentrate on it. So it a makeshift one that does it job, I also managed to edit and combine couple civs to represent its modern names etc. Anyway I guess it something similar to what you guys want I did not replace any city states some of you can also use it as a base to recreate

Oh and some CITY States like Jerusalem I have as part of a MINOR CIV called UN Mandate Territory, so that I can recreate the whole mid east issues especially since there a Palestine and Israel civ out there. as I said let me know if you guys are interested in using them