Gallic Warriors, Now What?

Emperor game on large map, I'm the Celts. I finally managed to hook up iron, so I'm finally able to build those great Gallic Warriors. The trouble is, I didn't conquer iron until late, so I also just made it to the MA (I'm tied for the tech lead). I usually like to research Feudalism first to get Sun Tzu and and then move on to Engineering-Invention for Leonardo. But Feudalism cuts off my UU. The era of peaceful expansion is over, and I'm going to need to move to war shortly.

How long should I avoid Feudalism and the war side of the MA tech tree?

Why avoid it? Just build one or two Gallic Swordsmen. (Amass horsemen for the other war units.) Fast research Feudalism, Engineering, Invention and somehow save up money before getting Chivalry. Then you can build Leo's and stock up money. Declare war! Get a golden age and upgrade all your horsemen with the Leo discounted prices. And you'll do quite well for a while.

Of course, this might not be what you were thinking about. Was it a Gallic Swordsman rush? I've always found those quite expensive. +20 shields for 1 extra move!

Which is why you need to use the Warrior-Swordsman gambit in that situation. Otherwise they're too costly.

anaxagoras said:

Emperor game on large map, I'm the Celts. I finally managed to hook up iron, so I'm finally able to build those great Gallic Warriors. The trouble is, I didn't conquer iron until late, so I also just made it to the MA (I'm tied for the tech lead). I usually like to research Feudalism first to get Sun Tzu and and then move on to Engineering-Invention for Leonardo. But Feudalism cuts off my UU. The era of peaceful expansion is over, and I'm going to need to move to war shortly.

How long should I avoid Feudalism and the war side of the MA tech tree?

Click to expand...

It doesn't cut off your UU unless you have had (or are in) a golden age.

You won't be able to upgrade any warriors to GS once you get Feud, but you can still build them until your GA starts. So I would

1) upgrade warriors to GS's
2) get Feud
3) build enough GS's
4) attack.

I didn't know the GA was what killed the UU. Interesting.

RFHolloway said:

It doesn't cut off your UU unless you have had (or are in) a golden age.

Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out. Unfortunately, it doesn't help. I had a phony war going with the Dutch, who were on the other side of the continent from me. Unfortunately, they signed a RoP with my English neighbors, and because both countries wear orange, I didn't notice until too late that the Dutch were sending an expeditionary force against me. I defeated them easily, but not before one of them suicided on one of my Gallic Swordsman. Surprise! Golden Age! Live and learn.

So I'm actually a couple of turns into my GA as I ask this, if it changes anyone's suggestions. I'm not prepared to go to war with my actual intended victim just yet, as I don't yet have quite enough firepower. I have about 15 total GSw and am just starting to pull militarily ahead of my intended victim (my advisor says we're still average compared to them, but I expect I'll get a "strong" report in a turn or two). I want to collect a stack of ten before I attack, and I expect to be able to do that and still meet defensive needs within about 5 turns.

Suggestions are appreciated.

In which case the order becomes
1) build/upgrade enough GS's
2) get Feud
3) attack.


How many is enough? Enough for the first war, or enough until you get MT. If you can do it, aim to take out one opponent, and then be peaceful for the last few turns until you get MT.

I would skip Chiv, and beline for MT. Build leo's if you want, but build lots of horses on the way, and then upgrade and conquor the rest of the world.

RFHolloway said:

In which case the order becomes
1) build/upgrade enough GS's
2) get Feud
3) attack.

Click to expand...

This is the correct answer. So long as you research around Feudalism you'll be able to make Gallics. Make enough for your immediate conquests while researching what you can, and when the time comes just take Feudalism and beeline for Military Tradition.

To avoid Feudalism. All you can get is, Engineering, and the top half of the MA technology tree (Monotheism, Theology, Education, Astronomy, Banking, Printing Press, Music Theory ....). The ironic thing is that these techs are meant for peace, but you'll be at war the whole time.

I ended up with a compromise. I researched Montheism and Engineering on my own, during which I built up my supply of Gallic Swordsman. At that point I attacked. Perhaps 5-8 turns into the assault I learned Feudalism. Meanwhile, the RNG was very unkind to my Gallic Swordsmen, so I was anticipating having to make peace early. Fortunately, the AI learned Chivalry for me, so I traded for it and continued the attack with Knights.

I have now eliminated my victim, I hold Sun-Tzu's and have nearly completed Leo's (I started my pre-build quite a bit late, but I should still have a huge lead on the two other civs who know Invention). I am reorganizing my forces for a push in the other direction just as soon as I make it to MT (or perhaps before then, if all goes well).

Thanks, all.

if you are even with the AI, ATTACK, especially with a fast attacker like the GW.

The AI builds so many spears that their ability to hurt you is not high - and a large stack of GW will survive well. You'll be able to take a bunch of cities.

This is something that is completely counterintuitive to a lot of people,that you have a large advantage over an AI that the mil advisor says you are equal to. Were the AI to take that stack of military and put it in an army and attack you,then maybe you'd have a problem, because those spears will make it impossible to kill their archers/swords. But the AI never concentrates it's forces like that.

In fact, much of the team you can kill an AI who is strong compared to you, cause the AI will attack piecemeal, allowing you to kill 3 or 4 units at a time and rest up. That's not to say you should always attack an AI who is strong to you, but it's not always a bad thing.

One that is average to you is toast.

I think I did the right thing in this case. Attacking with a weaker force than I did would have meant I had to negotiate peace before wiping them out. By waiting, I was able to run over them in one sweep, minimizing WW, and clearing out my half of the pangea all the way to the coast. Now I can rebuild to take on my most important rival, while my army takes out a neighboring backward civ just to keep itself busy.