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Cities in Development (Obsolete)

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You might be excited for Sov., but I'm keen to get working as many concepts which fit systems in their own right as possible, so that Sov. can interact with them via Reforms. So you'll just have to wait :p But I have to develop TP (I might switch it to PT...), so in the meantime I'll be carrying on with Sov.

On Prosperity: It won't be so complex as to have multiple Currencies in one civ (one Currency per civ). Overall, the system may not be as complex as to accomodate all your ideas - when considering Sovereignty, Piety, Loyalty, Crime, things start to get a bit hectic, and I like to view Prosperity as the check to Gold (as Piety is to Faith, Tourism to Culture, Happiness to Golden Ages, Crime is to everything, etc.). Atm Prosperity is just based upon your percentage of the world GPT, with additional modifiers such as Currency and Reforms on top. I'll keep in mind the effect of Food or Production output, but I hadn't had it in mind to play a role. War affecting Prosperity would be good though. Appreciate the ideas!

It goes without saying, but Trade of course may not happen - I will factor it in and try to work with a new idea for it, but the old system really doesn't work for me (code-wise and conceptually).

Of course, the more systems at your disposal the better. I've just been saving up some of your really fun civs to play with Sovereignty, so I'm quite eager to say the least.

As a side question, if Sovereignty and PT (Kojimia reference here) add new techs, where will they be added? With the inclusion of additional techs from your other gameplay mods, it could slow down a certain era if it gets overwhelmed with new techs. That, and the historical clock will desync with discoveries being made.

To throw ideas additional ideas onto a bandwagon, could there perhaps be a bonus if you gain a monopoly over a certain luxury, similar to CBP perhaps? Throughout the eras, certain resources and luxury will be valued more (which could add uses to the new luxuries and resources that ExCE adds). That idea may be too complex, or upset the balance of luxuries.
A lesser idea, is there any way to devalue a luxury if at first you have only one copy (rare), but if you manage to obtain like 5 (Common) it loses it's precious value and your currency value goes down as a result. This could probably be sidestepped if you simply traded them all away however.
As a wonder suggestion, World Trade Center would be fantastic, if Kramer was willing to share.

Ah, and here I thought Trade had been resuscitated. Turns out it's just a dying breath :p What was Trade supposed to do game play wise?
 
Sovereignty doesn't add any new techs (it used to add Code of Laws, but this was moved to CCC as it faciliated primarily the Magistrates Court). I doubt PT will add new techs. I'll probably need to move some things to make space in Banking, but that shouldn't warrant any new techs.

Trade allowed you to build special Buildings related to a particular resource you owned. You could build only so many in a city, and they were categorized as either a Trader, Market, or Trading Company, depending upon the type of resource. It wasn't a particularly elegant system, but it was ok. However, I'm thinking I want to move toward ITRD's sort of system - whereby you must expend a Trade Route in order to achieve a resource-related bonus. But we'll see.

I want to tread carefully enough that I don't step on Gazebo's Corporations and Monopolies system, which are too complex and interwoven to simply copy over anyway. I'll try to design something that fits alongside those as seamlessly as possible.
 
Sorry to bring bad news, but I might have some logs to bring later. I hadn't booted up Civ due to schoolwork for a while, so I updated, but I'm still getting the same bug from earlier. Gonna try and narrow it down first.
 
Still not getting loyalty in my colony. When I hovered over food, gold and science it just shows a directory leading to shared/utilities/jfd_ccc:105 and says crime is a nill value. Idk why printscreen wont capture the tooltip.
Spoiler :
 

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Hello, JFD. I started a game this morning and found that when I expend a Great Magistrate, I got 2 Magistrates but the G.M. will not disappear! Which means I can get infinite Magistrates once I got one G.M. Pretty cool!:goodjob:
 
Some ideas with crime. There should be an International Criminal Court WC initiative that works like International Games.

On that subject I think there should be some type of metric for crimes committed by a regime so that you can invade, defeat them, and then hold a type of Nuremberg Trials for them and you gain some type of bonus in controlling their cities or you get a huge Diplo boost with the defeated enemy after you purge their leadership of war criminals.

With that your own civilization should be able to commit these same crimes and they could be a Diplo penalty against other Civs leading to a coalition forming against you and invading you to purge your leadership.

I know you were talking about adding slavery and maybe if you hold onto it too long it'll be considered a crime against humanity by your neighbors.

You should also be able to choose different types of legal systems from Common Law like England, Civil Law like France, Socialist Law like China, or Religious Law like Iran. Maybe this would be with Sovereignty I am not sure.

Thanks for entertaining my ramblings. :D
 
Now C&C&C page on wiki redirects to "JFD's Claims, Colonies, Crimes, & Prosperity" So prosperity was consumed by C&C&C? (And now acronym for that mod will be CCCP, which in russian equals to USSR acronym :crazyeye: )
 
I dunno where Prosperity will find its home, as its caught between needing Piety's Top Panel and CCC's City View. But it comes down to whether it stands on its own (i.e. whether Trade happens). It's balanced toward CCC, though, so it may go there. At this rate, I may have to come up with an all-encompassing title.

Speaking of... if anyone can help find currency symbols for the following, it would be both amazing and really appreciated: Ducat, Hyperpyron, Daric, Denarius. Obviously, these don't have official symbols, so it's a challenge!

You should also be able to choose different types of legal systems from Common Law like England, Civil Law like France, Socialist Law like China, or Religious Law like Iran. Maybe this would be with Sovereignty I am not sure.

Thanks for entertaining my ramblings. :D

There are some reforms concerning your legal code, though they're less specific. I'd actually never heard of Socialist Law before now.
 
You also definitely need dollarydoos.
 
Don't forget Canadian Tire Dollars!

Edit: In seriousness, I'm beginning to think that Prosperity should be built into CCC. Since Prosperity requires CCC, the only point to keeping them separate is if CCC users don't want added features to currency and trade. Since Prosperity is balanced around the influx of gold that Crimes provide, it seems like they would fit together well in a single mod.

On another note, I noticed that the Slavery component resurfaced on the Wikia for PT. As much as I think Slavery is a good game play idea, is it not built into Sovereignty and Mercenaries already? With Sovereignty you have reforms for incorporating or abolishing slavery into your empire (I believe last time I checked). You can hire slaves via Mercs, although their tenure is limited. Slavery, to me it seems, would affect the whole new Crime, GPT, and Prosperity balance by making adjustments to Crime rates, and affecting your economy in some fashion. Of course, they would also affect production and happiness, as well as relationships with other civilizations. But most of these ideas already seem built into your other mods. Is it necessary to make a whole component for slavery?

For coinage symbols, I would like to suggest for Denarii two I's with a curved C (forwards or backwards) linking the I's together (II + C). Doing the C backwards would be suggestive of a D. The two I's come from the plural version of Denarius.

For the Daric, perhaps join a capital D and R together, with the D backwards attached to the R.
Or a D with a capital A coming out of the bottom. The tip of the A is set right in the middle of the D space, A's horizontal line set just right above D's bottom curve, with the legs of the A coming out of either side of the D. Alternatively, you could replace the D with a O, since I'm sure over time people would get lazy and abbreviate it to that. If you have trouble imagining any of this, let me know, I'll make a quick photoshop.

For Hyperpyron, perhaps join an Upper case H with a lower case p, so the p was set against the bottom right of the H (Hp, except no space between). Another idea is to join a Y and a P with a horizontal line (Y-P, except tighter together). Or make a capital Y, with a horizontal line going through the mid intersection (the crossroads).
 
I finally got around to getting it working (I actually feel a bit silly I didn't notice the part about Health and Plague in the OP. Just had to disable that). Everything seemed to be going really smoothly, and I like the little touches, like how the Great Magistrate sound is from Civ IV. Though I did encounter two minor bugs.

1. I probably should've paid more attention to this, but it took a really long time for Sweden and Mongolia to research writing. I'm not sure when they learned it, but it was sometime in early AD. Outside of that, the other AI's didn't seem to have any trouble.

2. Geneva built Westminster Abbey.

Outside of that, it seemed to work great. Looking forward to Crime being added.
 
I finally got around to getting it working (I actually feel a bit silly I didn't notice the part about Health and Plague in the OP. Just had to disable that). Everything seemed to be going really smoothly, and I like the little touches, like how the Great Magistrate sound is from Civ IV. Though I did encounter two minor bugs.

1. I probably should've paid more attention to this, but it took a really long time for Sweden and Mongolia to research writing. I'm not sure when they learned it, but it was sometime in early AD. Outside of that, the other AI's didn't seem to have any trouble.

2. Geneva built Westminster Abbey.

Outside of that, it seemed to work great. Looking forward to Crime being added.

1. They are more militarily inclined, so that might explain it. If there are more reports of such, I can ramp up the incentive for AIs to go after Code of Laws.

2. Whoops. Will address. Thanks.

Don't forget Canadian Tire Dollars!

Edit: In seriousness, I'm beginning to think that Prosperity should be built into CCC. Since Prosperity requires CCC, the only point to keeping them separate is if CCC users don't want added features to currency and trade. Since Prosperity is balanced around the influx of gold that Crimes provide, it seems like they would fit together well in a single mod.

On another note, I noticed that the Slavery component resurfaced on the Wikia for PT. As much as I think Slavery is a good game play idea, is it not built into Sovereignty and Mercenaries already? With Sovereignty you have reforms for incorporating or abolishing slavery into your empire (I believe last time I checked). You can hire slaves via Mercs, although their tenure is limited. Slavery, to me it seems, would affect the whole new Crime, GPT, and Prosperity balance by making adjustments to Crime rates, and affecting your economy in some fashion. Of course, they would also affect production and happiness, as well as relationships with other civilizations. But most of these ideas already seem built into your other mods. Is it necessary to make a whole component for slavery?

For coinage symbols, I would like to suggest for Denarii two I's with a curved C (forwards or backwards) linking the I's together (II + C). Doing the C backwards would be suggestive of a D. The two I's come from the plural version of Denarius.

For the Daric, perhaps join a capital D and R together, with the D backwards attached to the R.
Or a D with a capital A coming out of the bottom. The tip of the A is set right in the middle of the D space, A's horizontal line set just right above D's bottom curve, with the legs of the A coming out of either side of the D. Alternatively, you could replace the D with a O, since I'm sure over time people would get lazy and abbreviate it to that. If you have trouble imagining any of this, let me know, I'll make a quick photoshop.

For Hyperpyron, perhaps join an Upper case H with a lower case p, so the p was set against the bottom right of the H (Hp, except no space between). Another idea is to join a Y and a P with a horizontal line (Y-P, except tighter together). Or make a capital Y, with a horizontal line going through the mid intersection (the crossroads).

Prosperity doesn't require CCC yet - it may do if I end up needing the City View, which is something that depends on Trade. But I'd keep it separate because it almost certainly will require Piety - and moving it to CCC means CCC would require Piety, which is a bit limiting.

I hadn't done anything with Slavery in Mercs., and Slavery is a set of Reforms, true, but in so far as Currency already is. Its not necessary, and I don't have any solid ideas, but it - like Health and Currency - is a concept that I've wanted to translate into a game mechanic. Doesn't mean it'll happen, of course. But Emigration is going to be scaled down to simply the Reforms, if it's any consolation to your concerns that Sov. is being delayed more and more :p That case may yet happen for Slavery. But I am moving towards a Health component of my own. I don't want to step on FramedArchitect's toes, and some ideas may cross paths, but it's a system I have always wanted to integrate into my overarching modding (and FA's H&P is incompatible with the CP DLL last I tried, not to mention EUI).

Thanks for the ideas! I'll see if I can manage it.
 
I hadn't done anything with Slavery in Mercs., and Slavery is a set of Reforms, true, but in so far as Currency already is. Its not necessary, and I don't have any solid ideas, but it - like Health and Currency - is a concept that I've wanted to translate into a game mechanic. Doesn't mean it'll happen, of course. But Emigration is going to be scaled down to simply the Reforms, if it's any consolation to your concerns that Sov. is being delayed more and more :p That case may yet happen for Slavery. But I am moving towards a Health component of my own. I don't want to step on FramedArchitect's toes, and some ideas may cross paths, but it's a system I have always wanted to integrate into my overarching modding (and FA's H&P is incompatible with the CP DLL last I tried, not to mention EUI).

In mercs, there are some slave contracts, cheap units that, based upon the files I've looked at, will play into the greater idea of slavery, and other Civ's opinion of you. I do personally want to see slavery implemented in some way, but I can't see it becoming a big thing, rather a part to a bigger whole (which you could argue it is already xD).

Just hoping I can play modded Civ with my brother this Christmas, that's all :D I feel like I'm the only one here who's excited for Sovereignty. Get Hyped people! Don't any of you feel the burning need to establish the Communist party of Rome? :p

Personally speaking, H&P hasn't been updated for a long long time. All respect to him, because his mod has great ideas, but I'm glad that someone is making their own variant that will at least work with other mods, even if not the same.

Edit: Alternate idea for Hyperpyron, place a capital Y in a capital H, and elongate H's horizontal line.
 
Oh, I forgot about those :p That's something, true - they become unavailable if you abolish Slavery. I don't think it'd be a big component, no - possibly would just feed into Trade, if at all.

It does, but I'm excited enough for it that other peoples excitement is not necessary to motivate me.

Appreciate that :) I'm looking at how I might use Health to offset the changes to Happiness in Prosperity, and will most likely look at having it contribute to stored Food (taking the Aqueduct's effect dynamically), rather than contributing to Food outright as it does in H&P, as I feel this approach doesn't upset balance quite so much (particularly with the Health yielding Wheat).
 
and FA's H&P is incompatible with the CP DLL last I tried

Wait, so H&P doesn't support CP :)cry:), but ExCE supports H&P?

Mind = blown.

That aside, I would like an improved version of H&P, which at least supports EUI, but also was a bit more user friendly. It sounds like you're making something much more complicated, though! Maybe instead of health affecting happiness, it could affect a disease value, which would then cause unhappiness and some crime-like penalties (less production, less gold). Improving on that, maybe the disease value could also increase faith in the early eras, while people are hoping that God will save them (and possibly reduce piety when he doesn't :/), but later increase science, as the citizens try to cure the disease? Or is that too complicated? Sorry, I just felt like posting something that wasn't criticism for once.
 
ExCE's H&P support predates my realization that H&P doesn't work well with CP - I probably should've taken it out in the latest update, but forgot :lol: Basically, H&P puts the Health yield into the slot that CP puts Tourism, as both hardcode the IDs of these yields. This causes some problems... But with me at the helm of my own Health mod, I can ensure compatibility with CP, EUI, CCC, and any other mods out there, and synergy with my civs and with Sovereignty.

It's early days yet, and I'm not certain the direction Health will take. I don't want it to become too complicated, but I want it to check exorbitant growth and to reward extra Local Happiness in lieu of Prosperity's changes. I'll be looking at how I might do Plagues, as well, and perhaps I could make it generically to do with Disease. Which could be an excuse for more flavour with a breakdown of diseases :p Ideas are welcome, and I make note of all of them so that I can properly go over them when I sit down and think about the system. Would love to add a Great Doctor, too.
 
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