Fall Further 050 Bug Report Thread

Tarquelne said:

Uh oh. EventManager. I see a bug I added got corrected in the SVN, but the correction didn't make it into the patch.

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I'm starting to distrust GIT - need to work out a reliable way to do the file pulls from SVN, through GIT and then into the patch... I'll post Patch D now to solve that as it's fairly significant.

Installed Patch C & the event manager fix.. when i try to load the game i was using with Patch B, i get failed to uncompress game data or something.. its hard to see since it flashes for a tenth of a second before the program shuts itself down to desktop..

The Python Exeption (described here) spam still happens with Patch D.
I'll start a new Game to veryfy if it still happens then.

Patch B, I got the "Hunter sells his catch" twice and "Hungry Hillgiant" once. I couldn't select any of the animals or the giant. I'm sure it wasn't a lack of money, since the first time I hired the hunter instead.

War Chicken said:

The Python Exeption (described here) spam still happens with Patch D.
I'll start a new Game to veryfy if it still happens then.

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Thanks - don't think Patch D will address that one - have you got a savegame at a point that will reliably cause that? Might be one for Jean Elcard to take a peek at (sounds like the area he was working in).

Vehem said:

Thanks - don't think Patch D will address that one - have you got a savegame at a point that will reliably cause that? Might be one for Jean Elcard to take a peek at (sounds like the area he was working in).

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Yes, that's one for me. Never had anything causing a "Memory Error" before, though. Sounds bad. A save game would be really handy.

EDIT: War Chicken, I have some questions for you:

• How big was your map and which game speed were you playing on?
• I suppose the map didn't change to a colder version of itself after the deepening had been built (at least not visually)?
• Would you mind to start a game with the End of Winter option enabled and play a few turns? I would like to know, if it triggers the same error.

Unfortunately I think the cause of the memory error is a hardware problem. For some reason your machine doesn't manage to update the graphics of all map plots in one rush. There is a possible workaround, but it's not a nice one ...

Die zwölfe zum Gruße!

We're lucky - I saved the Game because it was interesting hoping to be able to continue it if it's got fixed.

I appended it below.

The Map was a huge one played at normal speed.
There were some tiles affected and got Tundra or Ice, but not too many.
I'll start an end of winter game now and tell you as soon as I have anything.

By the way - I get sh*tloads of MAFs whenever I try to load a game from amidst the game (Abuot 90% of the time - No problems from the Main Menu)

My GFX Card is a Gforce 8600GT - It's not the top notch stuff, but isn't weak either...
I'll do a driver update (quite old driver) maybe that'll help.
What would that workaround be if it won't work?

Reproducible CTD with this save (playing with patch C, plus the fixed python file)

I settled in the starting spot, moved my warrior in and fortified, and set my goblin to autoexplore.
The goblin will proceed to move onto the Tomb of Succulus (sp?), and on the very next turn, the game will CTD.

The driver update fixed neither the MAFs when loading nor the python exceptions posted above...

The End of Winter game seems helpful. I have a Python exception Message like the ones in the other game on turn 12 (Turn 82-classic start)
Seems like some is wrong with the ice melting.
Update: Turn 13 produced 15 of this exceptions...
Update: Every Turn now produces 15 exceptions one of them is like the second screenshot appendet on my previous post all others are like the first one.
Nontheless I've seen one plot change from ice to grassland by now.
Update: The mechanic that melts the ocean-ice seems to work fine.
How many tiles are supposed to turn improve with the end of winter option?
It seems to work in general, but it seems like a lot slower (In tiles per turn, not slowed turns) than normal - but this might just be me.

lordrune said:

Reproducible CTD with this save (playing with patch C, plus the fixed python file)

I settled in the starting spot, moved my warrior in and fortified, and set my goblin to autoexplore.
The goblin will proceed to move onto the Tomb of Succulus (sp?), and on the very next turn, the game will CTD.

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I've tried this one - did you mean "Broken Sepulcher"? In any case, it didn't CtD with Patch D on my machine, but there shouldn't be any difference between PatchC+Fix and PatchD.

Patch D. Another unrecoverable MAF, around turn 100. I am playing the Scions. It happens during AI turn play. It could be Scions-Specific, since I see the others go well with their own games. It is of the same kind as the one I have already posted a save game for.

By the way, patch D breaks save games. Perhaps you would like to mention it in the downloads post.

patch D:

1) in the civilopedia, Kahdi Riders claim they have 0% chance to create a skeleton i successful after combat.
2) I believe I've read Vehem saying that scouts have decreased chances to get bad results from lairs, is that right? if so, that could be mentioned in the civilopedia
3) a couple old bugs from 0.43 are still in, for example sometimes after exploring a lair a unit will fail to cycle ( doesn't answer to commands, you'll have to manually select another unit)
4) the Cualli hero "increases chances of thwarthing rival spies" , which is kinda weird considering there are no spies in FF

War Chicken, I get similar MAF's on a standard Erebus map game where all hell is breaking loose around turn 320, AC in the 50's and several AI civ cities are falling to the Demonic Hordes. Reminds me of Rise of Mankind, likely just too many units for our memory to handle. Likewise, crashes regularly on reload, with reboot I can get in a turn or two.

Maybe changing of tiles should be tile after tile and not all simultaneously.
I thought I had a rather good PC until now...

War Chicken said:

Maybe changing of tiles should be tile after tile and not all simultaneously.
I thought I had a rather good PC until now...

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The "all at once" is a performance tweak and I think Jean has tested it on some fairly large maps - it's much faster for mass-terraforming than one-at-a-time. There's a chance though that it is too much for some machines (how much RAM do you have by the way?) so it may need to be reworked or removed in that case.

Vehem said:

how much RAM do you have by the way?

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I've got 3GB... again not the peak you can have, but still not bad.
The CPU is a Core 2 Duo E6750 (2x2.66GHz)

Maybe something in the middle would help - 10 tiles at a time or 5 tiles...

What makes my also wonder is, that it's exactly 15 exceptions every turn. If it depended on the Memory or GFX-Memory wouldnt there be some more once and some less the other turn? Could it be that it's supposed to change 16 tiles per turn, but only gets one done now (huge map normal speed)? That would explain why the ice melts so slowly...

I have seen others mention this, and some people say it is not happening to them, but I was playing scions, about 150 turns, and never had any awakened pop.

Is this considered an event? I know, at least in FFH, that only some events are a possibility in each game. Is it possible that in some games, the awakened event is not an option, and that is why some people have no problems while others never get any?

War Chicken said:

We're lucky - I saved the Game because it was interesting hoping to be able to continue it if it's got fixed.

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I can reliably reproduce the error with your save game. Thanks. For some reason I have to open and close world builder first to get it at the next turn, but that's ok, as long as I get the error.

War Chicken said:

The driver update fixed neither the MAFs when loading nor the python exceptions posted above...

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Would have been too easy.

War Chicken said:

The End of Winter game seems helpful. I have a Python exception Message like the ones in the other game on turn 12 (Turn 82-classic start). Seems like some is wrong with the ice melting.

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It's the reverting of terrain back to it's non-winter version. If too many tiles change at once it becomes a lot faster to update the whole map instead of each plot individually. That's the point where you start getting the error.

War Chicken said:

Update: The mechanic that melts the ocean-ice seems to work fine.

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That's because Ocean Ice is a feature and not terrain. Don't ask me why it is so difficult for civ4 to change terrain graphics but not feature graphis.

War Chicken said:

How many tiles are supposed to turn improve with the end of winter option? It seems to work in general, but it seems like a lot slower (In tiles per turn, not slowed turns) than normal - but this might just be me.

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End of Winter last for a third of the game (scaling with speed) in Fall Further.

War Chicken said:

I've got 3GB... again not the peak you can have, but still not bad. The CPU is a Core 2 Duo E6750 (2x2.66GHz)

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Better than my computer. AMD 4800+, 2 Cores, 2GB RAM, NVidia 7600GT. It's not a hardware problem then.

War Chicken said:

Maybe something in the middle would help - 10 tiles at a time or 5 tiles...

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I would love to do this, but it's only 1 plot or everything. It's a civ4 engine limitation. We can't do anything about it. It seems we are reaching the limits of this engine lately a lot.

War Chicken said:

What makes my also wonder is, that it's exactly 15 exceptions every turn.

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It's once for every player in the game and once at the end of every game turn.

War Chicken said:

What would that workaround be if it won't work?

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I'll try to capture the python exception and update the plots one at a time instead of the whole map. It'll slow down your between turn times considerably, if it comes to hell terrain, deepening, everything that changes a lot of terrain each turn. Maybe I find another solution, but at the moment I can't think of one.

Seien die Zwölfe mit uns ...

That's bad. But generally, if in FF Winter lasts one third of the game, that might be the slow conversion I noticed. I'm not a coder, but I've seen tiles change back to the normal terrain - If I hide python exceptions it might work fine - I could Imagine, it's just a style mistake the game is reporting... or... I don't know.

What happens when the engine reports a error when trying to change one plot?
Will that plot never be changed in the whole game, or might it be adressed afterwards again? Will ice remain on areas it shouldn't be after 1/3 of the game, or will it eventually be gone?

Would it be possible to do the all at once change, but somehow slow it a little down? If that would work, it might be a mix of both versions, too.

What makes me wonder is - why do some people have this problem and some don't?

jwin said:

I have seen others mention this, and some people say it is not happening to them, but I was playing scions, about 150 turns, and never had any awakened pop.

Is this considered an event?

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No. It's part of some python that runs each turn, not the Events. OTOH, arrival of the Scion hero units are all Events.

Are you seeing the little spawning chance readout by the mana display?