Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

Avs said:

On pirated versions of this game: Pirated versions will still be using Steam (just with modified .dlls). So Steam still gets on those computers. But I guess you can still consider it as "better" since you'll skip most of the Steam stuff (but not all of it).

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Whatever - in a pirated version you don't have to run Steam if you want to play. You get a better version for free. And additionally, the DLCs will probably also available to pirates - for free.

And that's why they have to use steam.
You're missinterpreting cause and reaction.

I hate pirates.

Haven't read this thread (its like 18 pages lol) but I'd also like to say how excited I am about being able to play this on Steam, already pre-ordered a couple of copies for my bros!! I hope being steam exclusive will cut out alot of the old farts who play this and cant get their heads around a computer too

The_J said:

And that's why they have to use steam.
You're missinterpreting cause and reaction.

I hate pirates.

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They use Steam because it's bad for the paying customer and good for the pirate? Or do they because it is cracked on the release day latest?

The_J said:

And that's why they have to use steam.
You're missinterpreting cause and reaction.

I hate pirates.

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Yeah, so that the pirates will have cracked it on the release day...Great logic.

j-d-s said:

Whatever - in a pirated version you don't have to run Steam if you want to play. You get a better version for free. And additionally, the DLCs will probably also available to pirates - for free.

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I think you underestimate the value lost from a pirated version if Steam is used for the mod distribution and multiplayer systems.

That is how the most effective DRM works, in such a way that you have to strip out vital functionality in order to remove it.

The steamworks integration is going to be far more fundamental in Civ 5 than it has been in any previous steam distributed version of Civ. This isn't a CD-in-drive style check. This is them using the steam network infrastructure to do fundamental things with the game.

Modiga-Disabled said:

A better question is how does it work in multiplayer? If a special-edition buyer and a regular-edition buyer play a game together can the SE buyer still play as Babylonians?

PS. I was pretty sure I was going to buy the game on Steam anyway, so the addition of Steam Works is nothing worse than good news to me.

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Woah. Guys, this is Modiga Disabled, a living legend and a moderator on the Steam forums. He is known for his ability to be 115 places at once. I think we can trust this guy when it comes to Steam.

WE ARE NOT WORTHY!

Well, in every game that I know of that uses Steam, there is a cracked version, meaning, without Steam and without lost content. As I've been saying for ages, DRM in its current form is useless.

need my speed said:

Well, in every game that I know of that uses Steam, there is a cracked version, meaning, without Steam and without lost content. As I've been saying for ages, DRM in its current form is useless.

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Are you enjoying Team Fortress 2 without Steam?

Do you know the difference between something being distributed via steam and powered by steamworks?

No...Where did I say I actually used those things? But, seeing as I considered buying Team Fortress 2 a few years ago (which I didn't), I've found that pirated versions exist. Just look around on The Pirate Bay, or simply google 'Team Fortress 2 torrent' or something like that. I'm sure you'll find working ones.

j-d-s said:

They use Steam because it's bad for the paying customer and good for the pirate? Or do they because it is cracked on the release day latest?

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need my speed said:

Yeah, so that the pirates will have cracked it on the release day...Great logic.

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Let me rephrase it: They try to use any DRM scheme to avoid piracy.
If it does not decrease then, they'll use more of it.
So everyone who's pirating software supports DRM. That's it.

Chalks said:

I think you underestimate the value lost from a pirated version if Steam is used for the mod distribution and multiplayer systems.

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PBEM will be possible even with a pirated version, Pitboss with high probability, too. And Mods wont be exclusive to steam, it wouldnt work.

@J: It's IMPOSSIBLE to avoid piracy in any way and whatever you try.

The_J said:

Let me rephrase it: They try to use any DRM scheme to avoid piracy.
If it does not decrease then, they'll use more of it.
So everyone who's pirating software supports DRM. That's it.

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Well, that is really stupid...Companies should know by now that DRM doesn't work. At least not the current form of it.

Some passionate Steam supporters have misrepresented some of our concerns.
Strawmen wearing tin foil hats screaming the sky is falling are confusing the issue.

My concerns, in order of importance, are...

Internet Connection:
I do not want my usage of Civ5 to be tied to internet validation. For reasons of finance and possible relocation, I may soon have no internet access. Furthermore, my internet connection has been consistently unreliable of late. And my provider (comcast~ this regions only broadband option) has installed usage caps and limitations. I can't trust that at some future date they won't lower the usage caps and increase the limitations. I understand that Steam users insist that upon initial validation, we can use offline mode and do not have to connect with Steam ever again. Despite a few hours of research (not all related to this question, but all Steam related), I cannot find anything which confirms this. Seems that much depends on the game in question. I find nothing assuring us that Civ5 will indeed work in this way.

If it proves true that Civ5's offline mode will Never require periodic validations, then I still have the concern that I must have a net connection any time I reformat the harddrive, have to repair my OS installation, use a different computer, or encounter some unkown event that triggers Steam to revalidate my Civ5 installation. I'm not spending over $50 on something that I can't be certain will be usable at will.


Ownership
I understand that we don't technically own the games we buy. But my usage of every PC game in my library is totally independent of some 3rd party. I can pick up the discs (when ever and where ever I want), install them in any machine that can run them, and play regardless of the existence, or the decisions of some outside force. If Firaxis/2k should go belly up I can still play those games. If hackers pwn the internet I can still play my games. etc. But if for whatever reason Valve/Steam should stop supporting Civ5, then I can't play it anymore. Unacceptable!

I'm once bitten twice shy on this subject. All the msn and yahoo music on this PC is lost if this machine becomes unusable, is reformatted, or is replaced. There are plenty enough precedents to validate my concern over ownership. Valves Steam might be doing better than great right now. It may appear that they will be around long past CivX. They may look like titans on the verge of pwning how games are distributed and played. Their unexpected fall from grace wouldn't be the first. When I buy something I want it to stay bought!


Accumulated Junk and Assorted Hassles
If I don't use it, I don't want it on my PC. I am tired of the constant updating of every piece of blasted software I own. I'm sick of running into program incompatibilities. I'm impatient with the ever increasing time it takes to defrag and scan my harddrive. I seek a sleek, uncluttered computing environment. I want power over my programs and I want to completely remove unwanted stuff. I don't want pieces of deleted programs sticking around. And I don't want yet another program growing a bit bigger with every blasted update its makers release. I see the value of Steam for some users. More power to you. I am sincerely happy that it provides services you enjoy. I don't want them though. Nothing personal. I just wanted to play Civ5.

I had problems with Civ3's gamespy. Clearly I wasn't the only one. Through my computing history I have had my fill of program crashes, system hangs, reinstalling, updating, compatibility conflicts and other assorted hassles. I'm sick and tired of it already! If I'm not using it I don't want it on my machine! I'm trying to simplify things to reduce complexity and minimize software conflicts. Every additional program adds to the system complexity which increases the hassles. Bringing in a piece of unwanted software that is tied to my game and interacts with my AV and firewall is not something I want.


Security
Steam opens a door into our PCs. Our firewalls and AVs must be configured to allow it access. So we give them a key to our machines. I don't trust that some thief in the night can't steal that key and use it for their own nefarious reasons. There is plenty of precedence for black hats gaining access to peoples machines by finding vulnerabilities in the software they use. My Firefox browser was compromised and became unusable. At the same time ie8 was compromised which allowed for my browser security settings to be changed without my notice. Which in turn opened the door for the real nasties. Various AV found nothing and changes to ie8's settings continued. Why should I assume that Steam is somehow invulnerable? It would provide another access point to my machine. Any risk must offer a reward. Steam provides no reward for me. No reason for me to create more vulnerability.

Another aspect to Steams security is the hijacking of user accounts. From what I've read on their support forums, it is a hassle to restore a hijacked account. And there is no guarantee that a stolen account can be restored to its rightful owner. I'm sure this is a relatively rare occurrence. But I have no desire to play roulette regardless of the odds, unless its for something I really want. And I really don't want Steam. I had very much wanted Civ5!!! But with all things considered, I don't want it that bad. But I do. That's the problem. But I won't and that just sucks. I'm addicted to Civ. I love the gameplay. No other game does it for me like Civ does. I've still got Civ3 and 4.


All that said, if my concerns over Internet Connection and Ownership
can be assuaged, then I may reconsider my decision to not buy Civ5.

need my speed said:

No...Where did I say I actually used those things? But, seeing as I considered buying Team Fortress 2 a few years ago (which I didn't), I've found that pirated versions exist. Just look around on The Pirate Bay, or simply google 'Team Fortress 2 torrent' or something like that. I'm sure you'll find working ones.

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But you can only play the cracked version on a handful of high ping cracked servers, filled with hackers and cheats. I guess it depends on your definition of "content loss"

j-d-s said:

PBEM will be possible even with a pirated version, Pitboss with high probability, too. And Mods wont be exclusive to steam, it wouldnt work.

@J: It's IMPOSSIBLE to avoid piracy in any way and whatever you try.

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Mods won't be exclusive to steam, but using steam as the primary distribution network for them would be trivial. Why wouldn't they? They can allow mods to be distributed in other ways, but you can bet that the majority of them won't be.

That will make it significantly harder to aquire the majority of mods. And, if you use PBEM (if PBEM even exists in 5 since it is such archaic technology), you are then restricted to that play method only.

This is content loss - and not insignificant in my book.

They don't need to stop piracy. They just need to make enough of an incentive to get a legal copy of the game to people who would consider it. Then the pirated copies become demos.

Chalks said:

This is content loss - and not insignificant in my book.

They don't need to stop piracy. They just need to make enough of an incentive to get a legal copy of the game to people who would consider it. Then the pirated copies become demos.

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props,

i don't like steam but its better than most lol

need my speed said:

Well, that is really stupid...Companies should know by now that DRM doesn't work. At least not the current form of it.

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How do you figure this? Do you think you know better than all the people at 2K whose job it is to maximize revenue? Except for DRM like that crazy ubisoft one, the backlash against DRM is generally restricted to a vocal minority of hardcore gamers. Look at the sales of civ4 and 5 on steam right now. 2K has obviously looked at their relationship with steam and calculated this is the best course of action.

There is absolutely no difference between pirated and legitimate civ4. There will be many differences seen in civ5.

Sure steam games can be cracked. I'm sure we'll see civ5 cracked quickly. Will it be available when everyone buying a legitimate copy has their downloaded copy unlocked at 12am? Probably not. Also have fun playing multiplayer with all the other pirates and hackers. Good luck trying to obtain updates for the game and you also miss out on the slick integration of mods into steam.

burn!

I'm not a big fan of Steam, to be honest, but at least it's better than the horror known as Games for Windows Live, which 2K loves to use these days. So while it's disappointing to be forced to run Steam every time I want to play, be online all the time and download patches when Steam tells me to, not when I want to (I've uninstalled several games because of this, most notably L4D and Team Fortress 2), none of these problems are bad enough for me to consider not buying.

I definitely don't like the "digital deluxe edition" nonsense, though. I don't want to have to pay more for in-game stuff, that just stinks.

xenobiotic, Well, see how much piracy is going on. Sure, without any form of DRM, it would be more. But not by much, only by a very tiny amount. Sure, they become easier to pirate, but, good people will buy games anyway, and bad people will pirate them anyway. Only a very, very, very, very, very small amount of people will pirate the game instead of buying it. I don't know how much making DRM costs, but I think they're making too much of it.

Chalks, that's probably true. But I don't think that they're full of hackers and cheaters. True, some will, but I do think there are servers with no more than in other online games...Which is still way too much, but anyway. And they won't be that laggy.