Overall Civ Elimination Thread

VicRatlhead5199 said:

I think you vote however you want to justify it. There are some weak civs that are going to go pretty quick early on but most civs are pretty balanced imo. It's going to come down to personal opinion and experiences in the end.

The ones I'm voting down are the ones I'm least likely to choose when starting a new game. When I'm scrolling through the list the ones that make me go "Ugh, no way!" are going first.

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is how I understand it in general. I'm voting based on strength, with playstyle being the tiebreaker if two civs are pretty well balanced. Vote how you want to though, just be sure to justify it.

City of Light can be really powerful now though in light of the bonuses to science/combat that come from high tourism.

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil-14
Byzantium- 20
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 5-3 = 2
Germany- 22
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 13+1 = 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 20
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 22
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 12
Zulu- 20

France - the weakest civ right now - the change to them was a real pity, although I dunno how to take adv from the tourism bonus
India - If left alone (peace) it can grow to tremendous numbers and it will get the lead, and a great UU, I just get that impression that they can be really powerful

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil-14
Byzantium- 20-3= 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 2
Germany- 22+1 = 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 20
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 22
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 12
Zulu- 20

Byzantium - I guess I just don't like having to go so hard on faith to make my UA work. Also could be that I struggled the few times I have played as them.

Germany - Had to go with new Germany since I blew away my previous best score. Poland, England and Sweden get honorable mention.

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil-11 Cultural civs just aren't the best, and a jungle start can be just awful. It's like France, but more terrain dependent. Golden Ages are nice, but you're essentially forced into going Freedom and you probably blew some GAs just getting to that point.
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 2
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 20
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 22
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 13 Even with a weak UU, Venice is one of the strongest civs in the game.
Zulu- 20

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 11
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 2
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17 Bad UA, pretty situational UU, and apparently, it's better off to build other things on desert than the Kasbah.
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23 Just amazing. The UA is very flexible, UU is generally awesome, especially with the UB.
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 13
Zulu- 20

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 12
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 2
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 18
Sweden- 21
Venice- 13
Zulu- 20

My choice is pretty untypical.

Spain gets -3 because al power of this civ lies in pure luck. You get natural wonder close to capital? Congratulations, you are going to dominate everything because you are lucky. You get naturals wonder in later part of game, somewhere far? Spain UA won't help you much. That's all. Also, Tercio and Conquistador are not very useful.

Brasil gets +1 because their UI + University + 1 to faith from jungles = awesome tiles, and their UA is insanely fun and cool while going for cultural victory. Although I must agree they aren't very good in other victory types.

America- 20
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 20
Brazil-20
Byzantium- 20
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 21
Danes- 5
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 20
Ethiopia- 20
France- 20
Germany- 22
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 18
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 20
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 20
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 20
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 20
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 20
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 6
Zulu- 20

Korea +1: Great Civ for Cultural and Science victory. I even like their patterns and colors.
Denmark -3: They suck. Simply no advantages over any other CIV when it comes to Domination, Diplomatic, Cultural or Science Victory. The Ski unit is so specific that I never used it.

America- 20
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 20
Brazil- 20
Byzantium- 20
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Danes- 5
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 20
Ethiopia- 20
France- 20
Germany- 22
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 18
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 20
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 20
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 20
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 20
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 20
Spain- 21
Sweden- 21
Venice- 3
Zulu- 20

China +1; Yesterday I discovered the Papermaker and the Chu-Ko-Nu. I just got my first domination victory in BNW before turn 250.

Venice -3; I want to like them but compared to others I always fall behind because I can't settle new cities. The saving grace of them is that by the end-game others get 10 trade-routes and you get 20, but that's way later in-game.

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 12
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 17
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 2
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19 In my opinion Spain is more "Hypercubic" than Venice, you play for Natural Wonder, and if you have luck Jackpot, oh and you don't have to play OCC
Sweden- 21
Venice- 7 Playing OCC cheated is not fun, and even though only 1 city makes you a very vulnerable target the first turns.
Zulu- 20

Fixed votes

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 12
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 18 Unit sucks, yeah, but tombs are a huge plus for wide, and their UA makes them great for wondering whoring for tall or even wide. I'd sooner take them for a cultural win than France.
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 0 Okay, I'll start and take out France. I like playing cultural, and I don't even find France that good. Gotta build the wonders in the capital to get any bonus from it. The chateau is okay, but a lot of time I'd rather build the improvement instead.
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Venice- 7
Zulu- 20

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21
Aztec- 18
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 12
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 18
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
France- 0
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Venice- 7
Zulu- 20

-3 to the Aztecs from me. No they're not the worst civ in the game, but their UA seems completely pointless since the changes to a cultural victory, warmonger penalties, and Poland's introduction. Poland gets 6 free policies effortlessly and regardless of their play style, it doesn't matter if you go passive or full monger, you always get the bonus. To get the same amount of policies as the Aztecs you have to be at war throughout the entire game and even then you probably won't get a full policy line free of charge. Jaguars are a solid unit for barb hunting and make for more durable scouts, but for early rushes they don't work as effectively as other civ's spearmen UU's. The floating gardens is a very powerful building with all the extra food and easy growth you get from it, but it's really the only attractive aspect of the Aztec's and a boring reason to pick them imo.

+1 for Indonesia. Again, this isn't because I think they're a strong civ but because they open a more unique play style. All of the other civs in the game with faith / religious bonuses are geared towards getting a religion earlier than everyone else. Instead Indonesia gets massive amounts of faith with Candi's now that they can be built without fresh water, a single Candi can generate more faith than a shrine + temple with piety without too much effort. It doesn't help with founding a religion but it does synergize very well with the faith buy type beliefs (especially the new reformation ones like Jesuit Education / Faith buy any great person). Being able to break the tradition start mold and shake up your play style is always nice and with Indonesia you can do that without feeling like you're screwing yourself too much. Kris Swords are a dice roll which I do not like, but the odds of getting the penalty promotions seem low enough and you usually wind up with a potent early game army if you build a few of them. Their UA can be tricky to get going but on most map scripts other than a few like pangea you can find 3 decent enough spots to get it to work. Another benefit people usually forget to bring up about their UA is that it isn't just extra luxuries, your 3 foreign cities also get the extra resource diversity bonus and makes them more attractive for other civs to send trade routes too. Combine this with the fact that these cities are likely to be much further away from your capital than normal you'll usually end up with quite a few more trade routes being sent to your empire than normal.

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 21 +1 =22
Aztec- 21
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 12
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 18
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 14-3 =11
Indonesia- 18
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 21
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Venice- 7
Zulu- 20



Austria reasoning is same as before
India- They are really so bad to me that I forgot about them in my first vote. I don't like Venice but I really really don't like India. Their "uniques" really don't do much of anything. The only time happiness is really an issue is in the early game when you are trying to expand and that happens to be when India has the least happiness. I think its counter intuitive to be about happiness and yet have the least happiness when happiness actually matters. Their unit is lackluster to say the least. They are actually pretty decent on attack but wait their "ability" makes sure they can't take early cities. Defense is hardly enough justification for the unit. Their building is god awful. India is apparently about a few huge cities so flat +2 yields is such a paltry amount it is almost nothing

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 18
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9 I think Brazil would be really fun on lower difficulties where a Jungle start wont hamper your ability to get the wonders you need, but on Emperor+, you probably won't be able to catch up in time without a river/coast start with plenty of hills. AKA: Too situational for me.
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 18
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 22 Can you tell they're my favorite civ? Extra growth, culture, and faith are amazing!! Even though they don't specifically help you with any victory type, they'll give your economy the boost it needs to focus on research or military (depending on your preferred victory type). Plus, the bonus culture/faith give you an edge in city state quests for culture/faith, which gives you more influence, which guarantees you your culture/faith, which snowballs into an unstoppable economy. Go-to civ when playing on Immortal (I normally play Emperor).
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Venice- 7
Zulu- 20

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 18 - 3 = 15 - Zzzzzz....you can do some early game warmonger and get some fairly large cities. Then you get crushed. The end.
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 18
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 22
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21 + 1 = 22 - I love Sweden. They're a really, really excellent Civ that can go for any VC. Plus they have great music.
Venice- 7
Zulu- 20

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 15 -
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 15- Worst civ to kill people with!
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 22
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 22 -
Venice- 7
Zulu- 21- Best civ to kill people with!

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 15 -
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9
Byzantium- 17
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 15- Worst civ to kill people with!
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 14 Really wanted to like this civ, really did. But their UA is so situational and awful and is completely dwarfed by the Incan UA, their UB most the time is worse in the long run than the workshop it replaces and their UU on the swordsman, a unit I barely use.
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 15
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 22
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 22
Venice- 8 Far from the best or my favorite civ, but seriously, there's way too much hate going on right now. For those who have yet to use them, the extra trade routes are extremely powerful. Diplo victories are easy, and venice makes them easier. Hell, since often I puppet nearby CS's and pump food and on occasion production(to rush a wonder-ish) into Venice with trade routes, it's good for practically anything.
Zulu- 21

I think something that a lot of people are overlooking in regards to Venice is that Venice can also be an opponent. Yes we all concede that in the player's hands the trade routes can be powerful however Venice is defiantly the easiest ai to weaken or if you are playing with friends Venice is almost impossible. Many times when Venice is in the game if I'm able to found the world congress or build the Forbidden palace(or both) and bride a vote or two the very first round of the congress can be an Embargo on Venice which severely weakens them then the next round it isn't that hard to embargo city states, definitively removing all the teeth from Venice, yes you may have a large cap but nothing else. Also ships are so fast that it is ridiculously easy to plunder a sea trade route then "run" to safety( the fact you can't join trade routes and ships for protection is beyond me). Yes if your game of civ takes place in a vacuum where nothing really happens Venice is one of the easiest civs to win with, however, they are so easy to undermine. Complete opinion here but their inclusion is a simple gimmick they should have a ability that is unique while also still playing the same game as the rest of the civs. They are so gimmicky it is almost impossible to compare them with the other civs. Plus their merchant is ridiculous in every respect. Yes they need to be powerful in order to compensate for their hindering UA but their being able to puppet city states other people are allied with and have been for years is ridiculous. Now I know what you are going to say, Wait a minute you have been up voting Austria who acquires city states, yes but they have be allies with them. The merchant should require you to be allies or for their to not have an ally. I digress

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 15 -
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9
Byzantium- 14
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 15
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 14
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 20
Rome- 21
Russia- 16
Shoshone- 20
Siam- 22
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 22
Venice- 8
Zulu- 21

Wow... despite the large number of votes, Venice is hanging on.

Never a fan of Byzantium; scales terrible with difficulty, similar to Egypt (wonders are gone before you even get the tech to build them). I hate being forced to play the religion game when the AI starts nabbing them at turn 45, and the pay-off isn't even that great for Byzantium. Their UU's come way too early and double up, so you generally are forced to use one or the other. Just an awkward Civ without a lot going for them.

Russia seems very bland but are actually quite fun to play. Sure, Krepost is underwhelming, but they have some of the best music in the game, colors are awesome, and the +1 hammer on strategics is surprisingly significant and is basically like working a farm and mine at the same time. Double amount means extra GPT, so it is actually like working a farm, mine, and trading post at the same time

To top it all off, once you hit double Uranium with Third Alternative, end-game is an absolute blast. They are like the war version of Spain (they get massive natural wonder bonuses which feels like cheats, Russia gets massive number of nukes which feels like cheats).

America- 17
Arabia- 20
Assyria- 20
Austria- 22
Aztec- 15 -
Babylon- 22
Brazil- 9
Byzantium- 14
Carthage- 20
Celts- 18
China- 22
Dutch- 20
Egypt- 15
England- 23
Ethiopia- 21
Germany- 23
Greece- 20
Huns- 20
Inca- 22
India- 11
Indonesia- 19
Iroquois- 14
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 20
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 17
Ottoman- 20
Persia- 20
Poland- 23
Polynesia- 17
Portugal- 17
Rome- 21
Russia- 16
Shoshone- 21
Siam- 22
Songhai- 21
Spain- 19
Sweden- 22
Venice- 8
Zulu- 21

Why does Portugal's UU give me a measly 200 something gold for its special ability, but takes navigation to get it?

Shoshone make for the best starts: pathfinders move like scouts and hit like warriors, they get to choose what they get from ruins, and huge borders make happiness and food problems easy to overcome early-game.