WW2-Global

Well the population model I know of several other scenarios and I personally don´t like it. It is too let´s say unrealistic. I mean then you would have to go the other way: Infantry many population loss, a ship none. I mean an infantry division has about 15.000 men, while a battleship has only up to 2.000. Also the population of the nations is not correct given in the game.

Adler
 
IarnGreiper,

"With the Soviets retreating the Oberkommando decided on a surprise attack on Russia now. Captured Lwow, Odessa, Lublin and Vilnius." Iarn Greiper

It will be interesting to follow how Soviet-AI respond to these very early attack.

"Week 41 took Tula, Smolensk, Kharkov and Kursk. We were very pleased with Operation Zitadelle, although the counterattecks were fierce and we lost some troops even one Panzer III unit." IarnGreiper

Its incredible that you have managed to advance so fast.

"However I can savely reallocate the Luftwaffe west since both Sevastopol and Moskow are secured at last. Gorky followed. I have to take back some parts of the eastern front in favor of the western front. However we expect the bolchevistic defense to crumble now." IarnGreiper

This is a very interesting playtest. After reading this I must consider a new
houserule: It should mean that a human playing Germany will not be allowed
to invade Soviet until April 1940.
I welcome feedback on that idea.

Rocoteh
 
Adler17 said:
Well the population model I know of several other scenarios and I personally don´t like it. It is too let´s say unrealistic. I mean then you would have to go the other way: Infantry many population loss, a ship none. I mean an infantry division has about 15.000 men, while a battleship has only up to 2.000. Also the population of the nations is not correct given in the game.

Adler

Adler,

Within the game-engine its not possible to simulate correct
population-losses. I think one should have in mind that Civ was not
made with such ambitions.

Its a sad fact that complex wargames no longer are massmarket
products. A new complex computer wargame will only sell in between
1000-5000 units.

Rocoteh
 
WVCivnut said:
I saw a post on another game where just raising the map maximum city rating to 999 solves the whole problem. They stated that if the number of cities is over the map max the AI will raise them all the time. Have you tried that, Rocoteh?

WVCivnut,

This scenario already use maximum city rating to 999.
Still I am rather sure that placing wonders are the most effective
way to prevent city-razing. Then no one can be 100% sure until the
day Firaxis says something on this matter...

Rocoteh
 
DarthCycle said:
Rocotech,

I might have an idea for a challenging German vs AI scenario

One of the biggest problem the German had late in the war was manpower. Yes, they had technological advantage but they were short on trained personnel.

What if German units also had a cost in population in order to build them?

For instance, a 1939 infantry would cost one population to build, in addition to their shield cost. Later unit (1940+) could even be higher like 2 or 3 population to simulate a shortage of manpower, or at least make it harder to build a lot of these high quality units.

This would create a situation where the player would be ill-advised to draft unit every turn since regular unit would also cost population points. Perhaps late in the game we could actually be in a situation where population would become a limiting factor: Germany would have a lot of high industry output cities but building units would reduce their population hence reducing the production capacity of these cities.

Some costs idea:
- regular 1939 infantry: 1 Pop
- security infantry: 0 pop
- improved infantry (panzergrenadier?): 2 pop
- Panzer III: 1 pop
- Panzer IV or Tiger: 2 pop
- Fighter: 1 pop
- short range bomber: 1 pop
- long range bomber: 2 pop
- small navy unit (destroyer, light cruiser, U-Boat): 1 Pop
- Big navy unit (carrier, cruiser): 2 Pop
- Bismarck class cruiser: 3 Pop

Or perhaps an entirely (simplier) different system: 1 Pop / 100 shield cost

The overall idea here would not be historically acurate at all but instead create a strategic situation where population would become a valuable ressource and be a limiting factor in the number of units the German player can build per turn.

What do you think?

DarthCycle,

Thank you for the ideas. They are all interesting.
However they also present the problem with "locked history".

The great change with regard to German WW2 infantry was
the 1944 Infantry division. The heavy losses 1941-1943 had made
that all German Infantry divisions were understrenght.
The reduced 1944 division made all German Infantry divisions at 100%
strenght and some new were also created.

I mean that changes with the goal to simulate the above also locks
the scenario. It assumes there were no way the heavy losses could
have been avoided.
It also important to remember that Soviet losses (in both absolute
and relative terms) was worse than Germanys.
Thus no Soviet Infantry division was at full strenght 1945.

I am considering to remove draft in the 360x306 version.
It will probably create problems in balance, but this can be solved
with auto-production.

Rocoteh
 
Hyberborean,

Thank you for the report.

"I have just experienced my first major setback in this war. The Americans took Halifax. Apparently they had more tanks than I knew (I really should check my spy reports more often). They had 40 tanks, and I think they used every single one of them against me.
The loss of my artillery was particularly hard, not to mention all the fighters I lost. But this only serves me right for allowing myself to get distracted and sending units to Greenland when I had more use of them in Halifax. I also made a poorly coordinated surprise attack on Havana. The infantry arrived on Cuba before the panzers did, and the Americans had tanks on the island, so that didn't go so well. I have learned my lesson, and am currently building up a large invasion force on Newfoundland"
Hyperborean

One must say its positive though that AI is able to launch effective
counterattacks. An invasion of America is always a high-risk operation.
I mean should losses grow to high its not easy to bring in reinforcements fast
enough.

"In Africa the Japanese has tried to cut me off from going further by conquering Mederdra. They did the same thing in the Middle-east. When I tried to take it, they hurried every division there, and razed all the cities. After they took Suez I tried to take Riyadh, but the Japanese reached that city first, and razed it. There is definitely a pattern here. They are deliberatly trying to prevent me from conquering enemy-cities" Hyperborean

There is a need to add many wonders in Africa.

"There will be no invasion of North America this year, I need to build up my forces on Newfoundland first. I have 60 divisions there, but it's not enough to counter the Allied forces. I need at least 100 divisions first. And more transports." Hyperborean

It sounds like a very good decision. 100 divisions should be a minimum.

Thank you and welcome back with more reports.

Rocoteh
 
Its my intention to release 2.0 with the current map, some
weeks from. The reason is that feedback from this version will
make the first huge map version even better.
(That version will then be 2.1)

Changes will be important:

Armies will be removed.
It will not be possible to steal techs anymore.
The prize for armoured units will increase.
This will mean that the cheapest armoured unit will
cost at least twice the cost of a given nations infantry.
Thus the minimum cost for a German or French armoured unit
will be 180 shields.

The above should increase realism.
It should also help AI and thus make the scenario more interesting.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh, I see the point of your houserule, but I have mixed feeling about it.
First, if the AI would not have move out of their defensive positions in their first AI I would have not attacked. Without the ability to bombard units on the move at will I would not have shifted the odds in my favor. The advances would have been slower, which means: Less time before France is breaking through. No chance to catch the Soviet airforce on the ground. Even without the need to have the majority of their fighters on the western front the Luftwaffe is vastly outnumbered by the lousy Russian aircraft. Catching them on the ground is mandatory.
I faced a growing thread that I overstretch in the east while the French pound through my defenses, which would result in a total German defeat in 1939.
Now I review my position from yesterday and my only chance to see 1940 is to offer peace to the Soviets the next turn. I am for overstretched and on the front most units are yellow or worse. I need all me reserves on the western front, so I have to agree to a cease fire with the Russians.

On your version II rules. I dislike the tank cost increase since it guaranties an Allied victory by just "sitting it out". It will help the Allied AI more than the already poor Axis AI.

No Armies: fine.
No Draft: perfect, since I generally restrain from drafting, besides reducing a starving city to a more suitable size.
No stealing tech: perfect
 
IarnGreiper,

"Now I review my position from yesterday and my only chance to see 1940 is to offer peace to the Soviets the next turn. I am for overstretched and on the front most units are yellow or worse. I need all me reserves on the western front, so I have to agree to a cease fire with the Russians." IarnGreiper

OK, I see then there is no need for a house-rule.

"On your version II rules. I dislike the tank cost increase since it guaranties an Allied victory by just "sitting it out". It will help the Allied AI more than the already poor Axis AI." IarnGreiper

The problem now though is that the cost for armoured units does not
reflect real costs. Should the changes not work I will rework the stats again
before the release of version 2.1.

Rocoteh
 
East US on the new map
 

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is there a way to stop any kind of trading altogether so as to speed up the game. moreover, its not realistic to see germany trade with South America or Japan, especially when the sea is controlled by the allies?
Rocoteh, is the large map gonna make the game even slower or is there a way to go around that?
 
eaglefox said:
is there a way to stop any kind of trading altogether so as to speed up the game. moreover, its not realistic to see germany trade with South America or Japan, especially when the sea is controlled by the allies?
Rocoteh, is the large map gonna make the game even slower or is there a way to go around that?

eaglefox,

I will probably remove sea and air trade already in version 2.0.
Version 2.1 (also with removed sea and air trade) should not be slow.

I expect 1 minute load time for 2.0 and 3 minutes for 2.1.
Note that this would not have been possible without
"El Justos breakthrough".

Rocoteh
 
El Justo said:
Rocoteh,

removing those trade flags is a very, very small price to pay for the 300-700% faster turn times.

this will make WW2 Global better than ever! :goodjob:

Yes, I agree!

I also hope that Firaxis will take a more open policicy in the future.
Without your breakthrough huge scenario-maps would still not have been
possible.

Rocoteh
 
I agree on the trade flags, too.

From the front: The Hauptquatier is proud to announce that we have made with Sweden and Russia. The Bochevists were forced to accept a deal that outshines the peace treaty of 1917. Their new government moved to Leningrad. We control the area south of Leningrad to Gorki and Stalingrad.
The peace in the east and north will allow us to deal with the French before they reach the Ruhr.
 
Okay, I definetely think that Russia needs to be toned down. In one turn they wiped out all Allied forces in Eastern Europe, almost completely destroyed Persia, and still had troops to spare to send at my bases in Eastern Siberia. And I had almost beaten the Germans when they did this, too..... :cry:
 
Week 45: An oddity occured (I don t think its related to my changes). After Russia made a painfull peace with Germany it declared war on both Norway (maybe because the Russian capital is isolated from any resources) and the US (in effect the whole Ally). This is total suicide of the Soviet AI since Germany (me) will not hessitate to finish off the SU in a few turns.

Side note: I demanded the Soviets to retreat from my territories and all fortresses retreated which gives rather odd results (they all stack around Leningrad and in the middle of nowhere east of Archangelsk)

Edit: We received an urgent report from one of our brave U boots: The Soviets landed an invasion force in Island! While the Reich has no sympathy for the Soviet empire this could be a step to the Endsieg.

Edit 2: After the Wehrmacht captured Oslo, the Soviets became gracious of us! (a single turn after they had to turn over a handful of cities for a cease fire)
 
The Omega said:
Okay, I definetely think that Russia needs to be toned down. In one turn they wiped out all Allied forces in Eastern Europe, almost completely destroyed Persia, and still had troops to spare to send at my bases in Eastern Siberia. And I had almost beaten the Germans when they did this, too..... :cry:

The Omega,

The problem is that a weaker Russia will make Barbarossa
to an overrun-operation when a human plays Germany.

Rocoteh
 
IarnGreiper said:
Week 45: An oddity occured (I don t think its related to my changes). After Russia made a painfull peace with Germany it declared war on both Norway (maybe because the Russian capital is isolated from any resources) and the US (in effect the whole Ally). This is total suicide of the Soviet AI since Germany (me) will not hessitate to finish off the SU in a few turns.

Side note: I demanded the Soviets to retreat from my territories and all fortresses retreated which gives rather odd results (they all stack around Leningrad and in the middle of nowhere east of Archangelsk)

Edit: We received an urgent report from one of our brave U boots: The Soviets landed an invasion force in Island! While the Reich has no sympathy for the Soviet empire this could be a step to the Endsieg.

Edit 2: After the Wehrmacht captured Oslo, the Soviets became gracious of us! (a single turn after they had to turn over a handful of cities for a cease fire)

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for the reports.

Soviet invasion of Iceland! That is incredible.

Looking forward to follow how the playtest evolves from this point.
Welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Germany - v 1.9 - Sid - Week 5, 1942

The situation looks much better now. After carefully studying the map I decided to make my landing on Chimo on New Year's day. This proved to be a good decision. I have more room to manoeuvre here, and the great distance to the closest cities works to my advantage. I didn't count my own forces, but there must have been at least 60 divisions involved in the first wave, and just as many followed in the second wave. The enemy was surprised by this move, and Chimo was easily taken. The Americans sent an even larger SOD this time (I counted at least 95 divisions), and they made multiple airdrops in the forests of Labrador. They could have attacked me from all directions, and I was really looking forward to this game's biggest battle. However, the AI started to act in the usual way: the SOD broke up into smaller groups, and they just moved in random ways instead of attacking me with everything they had. The Luftwaffe had an easy job methodically destroying division after division. Still, the Americans had lots of tanks in the area, it appears as if they were using the land-tongue to Greenland to recapture the airfields there, but my invasion made them change their minds. They have almost run out of tanks now, and after I'm done with them I'm going to concentrate on the infantry. I guess I could seize this moment to attack the cities, but right now I'm far more interested in a battle of annihilation. I will not allow them to escape south. I'll bomb the roads if I have to, even though I'm principally against bombing the terrain to gain an advantage.
Seeing the Americans pulling a lot of divisions out of Halifax to move to Labrador, I sent my third invasion wave to Halifax and recaptured the city. This was easy. They obviously expected me to attack there again, since they had at least 20 divisions there, but when I landed in Labrador they practically abandoned Halifax, and only left a small garrison there. And I destroyed 20 planes in the city. That made up for my own losses. I think that together the Germans, the Americans and the British have lost some 50 planes in Halifax. One would think that someone should have learned that it is a mistake to place so many planes in Halifax by now. :)
It remains to see if the Allies will make a counter-attack against Halifax. If they do I'll be ready, but if they don't I'll send my troops forward within a couple of weeks, and perhaps I'll coordinate it with an offensive in Labrador. I have circa 100 divisions in Labrador, and 50 in Halifax. I think that should be enough for a nice little offensive. :)
And as that wasn't enough I'm also planning a third attack somewhere else. This invasion will have to manage without support from the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe, but I think it'll work. The Allies should be too busy to notice my third invasion.
In Africa the Japanese have reached Kongo. It seems that they don't destroy Belgian cities either. The good news is that the Japanese have conquered almost all of India without razing a city (so far). Only Madurai remains. I sunk a Dutch submarine outside South-africa. Portugal declared war on Britain. I have sent half of my u-boats into the Indian ocean. They are going to help the Japanese in Indonesia.

A comparison of the forces of the most powerful nations, week 5, 1942:

. . . . . . . . . . . . Germany Japan U.S.A. U.K. Finland Italy France

Workers . . . . . . 79 . . . . 31 . . . 42 . . 31 . 3 . . . . 4 . . 1
Paratroopers . . . 7 . . . . . 1 . . . -- . . -- . -- . . . . 2 . . --
Marines . . . . . . . 5 . . . . 121 . . 39 . . -- . -- . . . . 1 . . --
Infantry . . . . . . 148. . . 127 . . 167 . . 70 . 12 . . . 57 . . 18
Machine-gunners 0 . . . . 205 . . 114 . . 88 . 28 . . . 14 . . 15
Artillery . . . . . . 37 . . . . 7 . . . 21 . . . 8 . . 2 . . . . 12 . . 1
Tanks . . . . . . . 83 . . . . 0 . . . 18 . . . 78 . 16 . . . 11 . . 0
Planes . . . . . . . 87 . . . . 77 . . 47 . . . 90 . 0 . . . . 19 . . 8
Destroyer flotillas 0 . . . . . 59 . . 28 . . . 11 . 7 . . . . 7 . . 0
Transports . . . . 38 . . . . 21 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . 0 . . . . 1 . . 0
Carriers . . . . . . 5 . . . . . 0 . . . . 2 . . . 0 . . 0 . . . . 0 . . 0
Submarines . . . . 67 . . . . 0 . . . . 0 . . . 0 . . 0 . . . . 0 . . 0

The on-going battle in North America has taken its toll on the American air-force, and on the number of tanks. Their numbers were far greater until a couple of weeks ago, when I started targetting the tank divisions. Most interesting development is Finland. The nation has risen from the dead. When I defeated the Soviet Union Finland had only Helsinki, 5 infantry divisions and 6 machine-gunners left. After I have given them Tampere, Vaasa, Kemi, Kuopio, Petsamo, Murmansk, Kem, Arkhangelsk, Hammerfest, Narvik, Trondheim and Luleå they have become my second most valuable ally after Japan. Italy has not been of much use to me. I expect the Finns to do better. Their destroyer flotillas are already helping me fighting the American fleet in the Atlantic. In the defense of the Italians I could say that they are at least trying to help, but they keep getting in my way. The latest example is their landing near Freetown, Liberia. They are blocking the road, and are preventing my panzers from advancing towards Nigeria. Very frustrating. I wish they could go and bother the Japanese instead.
Also, I think the French don't have much strength left. Even the Netherlands are stronger, they still have a submarine (at least until I sunk it ;) ), and some light tanks too. It's weird, in my 1.8 game the French built tons of Somua, and they really caused me a headache, but in this game they have hardly built any tanks at all. I'm not really complaining, though, I just wish they could have kept the fighting spirit from that game to this. They seemed more focused on building destroyer flotillas than tanks this time.

My infantry divisions:

German: 148
SS: 26
Romanian: 36
Bulgarian: 15
Hungarian: 14
Russian: 15
Communist (China): 8

I also have 71 German 88. So I guess that gives me the second biggest army after Japan.
 
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