Fallout: Tame The Wastes

Cheers Kel,

You can actually already get the latest version of the source code from my site, I uploaded it yesterday.

So feel free to get it and dig around in it at your leisure :)

I received the release .dll last night, so after some testing today to make sure nothing is catastrophically wrong with it, everyone should have access to Alpha3 this evening!
 
Joy to the world Alpha3 has come
Let Earth receive a new Post Apocalyptic Game!!

Christmas Cometh Early to the Wasteland Alpha3 has just gone live!

Check out the first post for details and download link!

@Kel
Yeah I have a thread in the modpack section that links here, I am about to go and get it bumped to the top of the list :p
I also post in the New Content News Thread AND Moddb, and now that I have a stable mod, I can begin the process of publishing on Desura as well.
Hopefully soon we will qualify for our own Mod Project Sub-Forum too.

This weekend is gonna be all about Alpha3!
 
Really? Honestly I don't know.. We have some custom player options, but.. That shouldn't be the same thing.. Can you tell me more of what you discovered, and we will take a closer look, this certainly is not by design..

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

I know I have had some odd problems once in a while where my .ini file seems to randomly change it's settings, but I don't think I have ever had it change the resolution..

Also that avatar pic is freaking awesome!

It seems what I thought was causing it. Isnt causing it. But something still is.
I must have misread (somehow) what was in the k-fallout.ini

Code:
; Read Game options from XML, not .ini
ForceGameOptions = 0

I'm sure it was 1 but it seems it isnt. So I have no idea what is causing it. But it is still happening. Im going to try the new alpha see if I have the same problem with that.

Oh and my avatar? Yeah the monkey is cool. It's a Master cheif monkey from the never released Timesplitters 4. Maybe one day we will see that game.
 
Let me know what happens, and if you discover the source we will take a look!

I don't think I have experienced this issue, although I haven't done much mod switching of late, and I often use windowed mode for testing, but I don't think anyone else has mentioned this issue so I really don't know what to do or where to look!

I hope the issue will be gone and you enjoy the new version!
 
Got this error when trying to load the mod

GFC Error: failed to initialize the Primary control theme

I've probably put something in the wrong folder haven't I?
 
Tried that. It didnt work. I googled it and tried a few different ways to fix it. Nothing worked. The only thing I havent tried is reinstalling Civ 4 but thats not something I really want to try because I have the steam version so it would take hours redownloading it.

Gonna try and redownload the mod maybe something went wrong there.
 
hmmm could be, how strange...and you put all three parts in main, art and sound?

You definately placed in in the right place for the steam file path in the bts folder, not the main civIV folder?

the thread i read about htis error was really old, and didn't really resolve the issue, they just reinstalled bts and it was fine, it talks about it being connected to incorrect filepaths, I did change the name of the mod foler just before uploading, but I can't see that causing problems for a new install on another computer..

oh crap no... you are totally right I have gone a blown something up!! right... time to take a look and fix things! sorry!
 
Ok yep I have blown it up by renaming it.. I am not sure why there is obviously a filepath in there somewhere that refers to K-Fallout...

rename the folder K-Fallout instead of Fallout Tame The Wastes and that SHOULD fix it! I am fixing the DL now..

Thanks for picking up on this so fast! Pff that is what I get for trying to rebrand on the sly... Need to figure out where this filepath is so I can change it properly!
 
I already did :D was just about to tell you thats how I fixed it. I tried it before but renaming didnt work but that was when it was in the my documents mod folder. Once I moved it back to the mod folder in the civ4 directory it worked fine!

Its still resetting my options but I was mistaken when I said it reset it for all of civ4 and my other mods. It just resets them every time I start this mod up. If I exit and load civ4 back up my options are all there again. Oh well changing them back takes less than a minute so I can deal with it.

Check out this thread. I found it when looking for fixes. These files would have to be changed I think.
 
the Fixed Download will be up in about 15 minutes everyone, sorry about that!

Yeah I have done a lot of messing around with the GUI, so it may be that I have accidentally blundered something in there.. I spent so long faffing with the GUI with only minor successes, so I just had to walk away and leave it alone for a while because it was a nightmare!

I will try to fix it eventually, like I said I play it in windowed mode (for bug testing) most of the time now, so I haven't paid much attention to resolution..

I hope you enjoy it and I can get some feed back that isn't "IT'S BROKEN!!!" :D

@micky, cheers, that is the tutorial I first used to make the UI :) i need to go through and check them :), I looked at one file, but it didn't have a specific mod path, which threw me. I must have opened the wrong one :D
 
I've got an odd problem; the game seems to load fine, but I only see the map, no data or controls. Even when I double click on a city it goes into the city view overhead mode but doesn't show anything else.
 
hmmm... this sounds like a python issue, I have had this happen to me in the past... but it is not happening to my version, so I don't know why it would be happening to yours...

The only thing I can suggest is try redownloading and installing the mod...

I don't know why it would be happening for you only.. anyone else having this issue?

There is one strange thing that has happened.. all of the map types have re-appeared.. it should only be pangeae and great plains...

I have clearly fluffed something up right before uploading the new version, the only thing that I can think of is that it is connected with when I renamed the folder.. but.. I have NO IDEA why!
 
Pangea and Great plains are the only ones that show up for me.

Got this bug when clicking the sentry bots icon. I could build them just fine though after clicking ok

Spoiler :


I'm just going to give out some of thoughts I had while playing the game randomly.

I played as the Brotherhood of Steel on a standard pandea map at normal speed on Noble.

You asked what Ranged vs melee was like. Well i'm not sure how good melee is but I can safely say ranged is overpowered. This is mostly because the AI doesn't seem to know it can fire at you so you can just whittle them down while they sit there and take it. I really liked using the snipers though! (the assassin unit has a typo in it btw) Hiding them in some forest using them to pick guys off but once I got a large enough stack I could use them to clear out a city from far away then move in the troops to take it.

My tactic was Use my power armoured troops with leech to defend my city capture units and snipers. Leech is very good it enabled my power armour troops to to kill so many units in one turn on defense.

My game was so peaceful. The only wars that ever got started were because of me declaring war or me paying someone to war. I think you need to be able to take cities earlier because until you get the tech that lets you there really isnt a reason to go to war I find.

The AI is really stupid with forts. They like to put forts next to their cities which gives me a perfect place to sit while I attack the city :D This is something I see the AI do in other mods too and I always find it funny.

A problem i've ran into with forts is sometimes you cant replace the fort with an improvement dunno why this is but its annoying as I have to pillage the fort and then build whatever I want. There is a similar problem with scavenger camps and logging teams too. They grow way too slow even with all the civic boosts and even when you unlock the next tier to build you cant just upgrade the improvement with workers you have to pillage it then build the next tier improvement. You should make it so that the tech that lets you build the higher tier improvements also speeds up the growth and make it so you can just use workers to upgrade them without having to pillage the tiles.

I saw a city that was guarded by some bears. A Barbearian city? :lol: Couldn't resist making that terrible pun.

Whats going on with the tech tree saying I can get certain units but when I get that tech I cant build them? One unit the Power armour with minigun I was looking forward to so I rushed to it in the tech tree but couldnt build it :cry:. From what I could see I met all the requirements unless the BoS cant build them.

I think thats all for now sorry if it was a bit rambly. I think after finishing them BoS game up (Just have to squish the Ghouls and New reno) I think I'll try a game as the raiders and try and war as soon as possible.
 
Hey Micky, thanks for the feedback I didn't find it rambling at all! Ok I will try and break it down so we can discuss your points! :D

Pangea and Great plains are the only ones that show up for me.
Got this bug when clicking the sentry bots icon. I could build them just fine though after clicking ok


Thanks for telling me you still have the maps as intended, that is good! It just leaves me stumped as to what I have done to my version! :D

Ugh that flipping button bug! I keep thinking I have fixed that one! What I think it is is that when I made the button there were some stray pixels outside of the 64x64 size, I just need to remake the button and refind the picture because I accidentally lost the work version of the file!

Spoiler :
You asked what Ranged vs melee was like. Well i'm not sure how good melee is but I can safely say ranged is overpowered. This is mostly because the AI doesn't seem to know it can fire at you so you can just whittle them down while they sit there and take it. I really liked using the snipers though! (the assassin unit has a typo in it btw) Hiding them in some forest using them to pick guys off but once I got a large enough stack I could use them to clear out a city from far away then move in the troops to take it.


Thanks for this, this is a big area of the gameplay that will need testing and refining to get it just right.
I ran some tests early on to see if the AI used range, and it did, I set 2 stacks next to each other and then declared war and watched them blast each other! Obviously we need to try and do something with the AI that will maximise it's use of this, or perhaps that will maneuvre into position as well.
Fortunately we now have someone on this team with the coding skills to potentially help me achieve these things!
One addition that I would love, is the 'Surround and Destroy' Feature from ROM:AND, as well as trying to develop some AI rules that help it make use of this, so that we see smaller stacks engaging in surrounding moves, rather than seeing 2 big stacks ripping each other apart with miniguns!
One thought I was having for 'buffing' melee units was to give them more powerful promotions than ranged, Like the 'Slayer Perk' in Fallout that just allowed you to decimate everything you touched.
With ranged I would like to add an 'accuracy' mechanic that some mods have, where a ranged attack is not always guaranteed to work, but that will again be quite a large addition, that I require the good grace of others to achieve.
Another thing I was thinking about was making melee units better in certain terrains, like forests, where visibilty is lower, and the ability to hit someone without a large BANG! is a bonus. As well as urban environments like 'towns'(improvement) So in those CQB (Close Quarter Battles) environments, melee units will take less damage from ranged attacks, as well as attacking bonuses when taking them out in those areas representing the ability to ambush and to take out enemies without giving away your position (Like every good Commando movie! :D). Hopefully with things like this melee will begin to emerge as a viable and beneficial part of combat, that fulfills a distinct role compared to the ranged combat benefits.

I am glad you enjoyed the snipers!
Hehe, although I will be working to limit the availability of snipers in future releases, either by simply making them national units, and/or as we develop our economic concepts, placing high and difficult resource restrictions on them as well.
Which i think makes sense as snipers are a very specialist soldier, and very few people have the natural skillset required for a real sniper.
In an attempt to make them somewhat less effective, and only truly devastating in ideal conditions.
As well as maybe trying to get the AI to hunt them with extreme prejudice :D or perhaps giving some units a 'flank' attack against them, so they cannot simply hide in a stack, so that once you close the distance on the sniper they become very vulneralbe as they have only a strength of one in combat, so as soon as they are engaged they are dead.
Hopefully this will provide the kind of offset that gets them used more sparingly in future versions, rather than your city killing tactic that you described.`

Spoiler :
My tactic was Use my power armoured troops with leech to defend my city capture units and snipers. Leech is very good it enabled my power armour troops to to kill so many units in one turn on defense.


In the future 'Leech' will become 'Cannabalism' and will become a much rarer feature of the game, only available to certain units or factions, and/or come with some negative impacts, like everybody hating and wanting to hurt you. (Like in Fallout)

I think that actually non T51-b power armour units can actually capture cities as well, as the arrive after 'conquest' tech.

Spoiler :
My game was so peaceful. The only wars that ever got started were because of me declaring war or me paying someone to war. I think you need to be able to take cities earlier because until you get the tech that lets you there really isnt a reason to go to war I find.


I am working on trying to create a generally more aggressive AI and destructive existence in the game, I just have to learn how and what works. This was one ofthe Reasons for the introduction of Deniable Ops. I wanted to create a kind of Cold War environment, where everyone is actually fighting each other, just no one is sending tanks into each others cities.

There were three reasons why Conquest is set so late, one is Story, the other is Game Play and the third is Realism.

Story: In F1 and F2 there is no real full scale war, in F1 Mutants and BoS are kind of involved in a Shadow war, with the BoS trying to contain the mutant threat, but not really having the resources to eliminate them completely. Until they hire a brave hero to do it for them!
In F2 it is the Enclave and the BoS that are involved in a Shadow War, again both sides are skirmishing with each other and engaging in clandestine operations to further their agendas (Enclave Enslaving, BoS engaging in Tech Espionage) But neither really has the resource advantage to engage in a fullscale war or occupy territory that they forcibly conquer.
It is not until NV that we hear of a fullscale War between BoS and NCR and then NCR and The Legion, but that is something like 3 generations after F1. Which in our game time would be somewhere in the region of 5000 turns (I only did the quick math just now)

Game Play: If cities can be conquered too early, then the 'crush rush strategy' will I am sure be lavishly employed, and people will start complaining that by the end of era one there is no one left to kill! (As there are only 8 factions, which will expand once the game is developed, but that won't be for some time.) Also as the factions become more distinct, certain factions will have benefits and advantages at certain points in the game, so those with a leg up at the beginning, will likely always wipe out their opponents quickly, as the idea of the game is that everyone will start very close together, rather than being protected by large open areas of terrain early on.

Realism: It really is not easy to oppress and control a group of people against their will outside of your own backyard, even then it is not easy, so making conquest come later is trying to represent the fact that beating a city is only one small step in the process, and it requires immense cultural, political, economic and military planning and expense to actually take 'control' of something.
Just look at what the Coalition has gone through in Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of the resources and manpower used, for what could only be defined in the most generous terms as a 'limited success'.

The fact is the only real reason to go to war is control, but if you don't have the resources and logistics to make that control stick then there really isn't much point taking that risk, instead you just want to destabilize your opponents power base by knocking out their infrastructure and enslaving their people in a Shadow War.

My hope is that this will create a much more anarchic environment, where war is constant, and the only reason to make it official is the final step of absorbing your enemy. (this will obviously require some work though)
 
Spoiler :
The AI is really stupid with forts. They like to put forts next to their cities which gives me a perfect place to sit while I attack the city This is something I see the AI do in other mods too and I always find it funny.

A problem i've ran into with forts is sometimes you cant replace the fort with an improvement dunno why this is but its annoying as I have to pillage the fort and then build whatever I want. There is a similar problem with scavenger camps and logging teams too. They grow way too slow even with all the civic boosts and even when you unlock the next tier to build you cant just upgrade the improvement with workers you have to pillage it then build the next tier improvement. You should make it so that the tech that lets you build the higher tier improvements also speeds up the growth and make it so you can just use workers to upgrade them without having to pillage the tiles.


Yeah AI is always a really difficult problem, and now i have a coder on team, we can actually start developing our own ai stuff (as we have with pop. cost although only in it's earliest form)

We use Red Keys Super Forts which has addressed this a bit, but I think forts are quite a difficult thing to 'fix' into a smart role for the computer. We have watch towers in the mod, which would allow the control of resources without the defensive benefits of a fort, so an unguarded watchtower whose only purpose is to control a nearby resource, is less of a double-edged sword than a full blown fort.

Yeah the long upgrade time of the improvements was a knee jerk reaction to the discovery that an improvement can improve before it's upgrade has been researched, I managed to peak Red Keys interest in adding code that fixes this, but I am waiting for that day.. So when/if that is created, improvement times will become much less and the whole thing will just be better, for now i have kind of left it alone as there isn't really a great solution to it, as an individual tech cannot speed up an individual improvement, only upgrading as a whole.

So basically it is just left till we have the capability to really fix it.

Spoiler :
I saw a city that was guarded by some bears. A Barbearian city? Couldn't resist making that terrible pun.


Arph Arph! Barbarians are a grizzly lot!

Spoiler :
Whats going on with the tech tree saying I can get certain units but when I get that tech I cant build them? One unit the Power armour with minigun I was looking forward to so I rushed to it in the tech tree but couldnt build it. From what I could see I met all the requirements unless the BoS cant build them.


Yeah the Tech tree has some odd display habits, I need to look at some of the interface mods out there to see if they can fix some of it (Don't get me started on interface issues they are such a headache... I have spent months combing through code to achieve a handful of minor successes...)

I don't know what your specific experience is, let me know if it differs from this! BUT
What the tech tree does I think, is display units in the tech that is their FIRST requirement, not their last, so a Minigun Power Armour is displayed in Pre-War Armour or Power Armour, and NOT in Rotary Weapons where the minigun is invented. I think if you scroll over the unit it tells you that it also needs X tech.
Let me know if it is different, as it may be that something is broken with that units requirements, but I don't think they are. In truth I haven't yet played all the way out to that stage of the game as I have mostly been fixing early game issues and concepts.

Thanks for all your feedback, it is hugely appreciated, not only does it help me identify the areas of the game that require fixing, or 'loophole management', but it also helps me see if my future plans are in line with players thoughts about what needs changing/fixing/developing etc. AND it is also a great motivation for me, as it lets me know people are enjoying the mod enough to take time to comment on it!

Plus I like talking about this stuff.. I don't get much oppurtunity for good conversation..
 
The art.rar is included in the fallout tame the wastes.rar (main). Seems unintended and self defeating of having them split up in the first place. I, for example, effectively DL the art.rar twice on my slow as 2mbit connection before I realized it was included in the "MAIN."
 
Huh I must have forgotten to remove it when I reuploaded it! I will re check that.

Ok I looked into it, I have deicded I am going to just split it into two parts, Main and Sound as it does not seem to be as large when Art and Main are combined, as they are seperate.. which confuses and makes me slightly wary, but if lots of people complain then I know I have broken something again! :D

Sorry about that guys! it should now be all squared away!
 
One thing that would make melee stand out more is making the only units to have leech. Makes sense to me that these guys would be munching on guys since they get up close and personal with them. Reminds me of my New Vegas character who would go around smashing peoples faces in with her Super Sledge and fists then after battle having a quick snack to heal. :D

Perhaps at least have you able to destroy cites near the start? I say this because it seems you can just spam cities to grab what you want with no fear of anyone stopping you once you have the city down. Maybe make it so you cant take a civs capital though?

I found explorers are really good for escorting settlers. I had to use these guys to settle into a vault that was really far away. The Master had me squished in a corner of the continent and there was only a gap of 1 tile left in the south the squeeze through so I figured I had to force my way through and found a city on the other side of the Master so I could reach other civs and continue my growth. In the end I kinda had a second empire that was on the other side of the masters land. They had to get their own resources until the master was kind enough to link me some roads up :goodjob:

I know in Rise of Mankind: A new dawn they have it so cottages don't upgrade until you reach a certain tech maybe you could look into how they do that and apply it to the improvements in this?

I think the first place I saw the minigun was in rotary weapons. If you mouse over it though it does say the other techs you need but even though I seem to have them I still couldn't build him.

Time to start a game as the raiders! I'm going to try out the melee line this time and try and be as much of a bastard as possible :D as raiders should be.
 
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