Fall Further - The Original Thread

woodelf said:
Vehem - did you forget to put that fix into this release?
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Nope - it's there are seems to work fine. It wasn't there on the first release that Psychic_Llamas was sent though - have you redownloaded since the actual release P_L?

The Mazatl worldspell basically builds a wonder that provides a free Temple of the Wyvern in every city - each one adds +5% to the length of your golden ages. It also continues to add these to new cities that are built. The Order (EDIT: of the Wyvern) itself provides an additional 10% to the golden age length - so you can get some very impressive lengths once the spell is cast.
 
The Order gives a 10% bonus to Golden Age length? In your mod-mod, or in the main game too? Or am I just lost and you don't mean the religion "The Order"?
 
xienwolf said:
The Order gives a 10% bonus to Golden Age length? In your mod-mod, or in the main game too? Or am I just lost and you don't mean the religion "The Order"?
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Sorry - "The Order of the Wyvern" (wonder) gives an increase to GA length. I keep doing that :D It also drops the Armageddon counter a little when its built (as well as the fact that the Wyvern-guard all have their "Mark of the Warden" - basically an "anti-prophecy mark")
 
some styuff about archos,
its 10 players immortal raging , barb world OCC.
I have 1 city, immortal.
Awesome
Tip: always build nature revolt with archos:

i think i have strongest army in world, the current one is just 1/5 i think. All bears 7 str, Spiders : 8.
Still got not mother, on my way, want to get 2 chaos nodes.
Ethne losing city after city, i see religion or conquest victory at end.
 
Vehem said:
Did you get the 012 update installed in the end? One of the things that dealt with was a potential CtD to do with the Archos Chosen (which was similar to the Champion/Maceman issue I believe).

If there's anyone else having a similar issue, can you please try a custom-game with just 1 of the new Civilizations (and the others selected from the old set), preferably the Archos and the Dural and see if the problem occurs again. Also, I could use any feedback regarding games using Fall Further that do not include any of the new civs - I'd like to track this one down but it's not easily reproducible as it is resolved after reloading an auto-save.
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No, I didn't. You mentioned that it would break saved games. I didn't finish my Chislev game because of the FFH2 patch that broke saved games. I didn't finish my Dural game because of the problem with Disease and no units that could cure it.

Then, I started a game with Mahala (and 2 of your civs in the game selected randomly). I saw your 012, but didn't want to break the saved games. Then, I saw that there were two more civs out. Wow, my head is spinning. :)

Anyway, as I said, the CTDs don't come until I am well into my game - the first 500 or so turns at Epic are fine. But, when they start, they come every 10-12 turns or so. As you said, they cannot be saved and submitted as the re-loads seem fine for a few more turns.

So, now, what do I do?

I can't load 012 or it will break my saved games. But, I am having so many CTDs now anyway, I guess it is time to give up again. :(

Or, should I just go ahead and download 020 and try that. It includes the fix from 012, right?
 
Nope - it's there are seems to work fine. It wasn't there on the first release that Psychic_Llamas was sent though - have you redownloaded since the actual release P_L?
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Ive redownloaded but havent played as Cualli in it yet :p

The Mazatl worldspell basically builds a wonder that provides a free Temple of the Wyvern in every city - each one adds +5% to the length of your golden ages. It also continues to add these to new cities that are built. The Order (EDIT: of the Wyvern) itself provides an additional 10% to the golden age length - so you can get some very impressive lengths once the spell is cast.
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ah well in that case that world spell is now one of my favourites. i just didnt know what the whole effect was :p perhaps you should specify that in the spell description?

Tip: always build nature revolt with archos:
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I found that out too. once archos get natures revolt theyre virtually unstopable. :D:D
 
in most of the games ive played the ai chislev are extreme expansionists and have huge empires. they are also very agressive, i think it fits extremely well but i think the multiple free forbidden city effect is a tad over powered. perhaps add some negative gold for tribal councils to counteract this?
 
Yeah chislev is huge in my game too
 
Sarisin said:
No, I didn't. You mentioned that it would break saved games. I didn't finish my Chislev game because of the FFH2 patch that broke saved games. I didn't finish my Dural game because of the problem with Disease and no units that could cure it.

Then, I started a game with Mahala (and 2 of your civs in the game selected randomly). I saw your 012, but didn't want to break the saved games. Then, I saw that there were two more civs out. Wow, my head is spinning. :)

Anyway, as I said, the CTDs don't come until I am well into my game - the first 500 or so turns at Epic are fine. But, when they start, they come every 10-12 turns or so. As you said, they cannot be saved and submitted as the re-loads seem fine for a few more turns.

So, now, what do I do?

I can't load 012 or it will break my saved games. But, I am having so many CTDs now anyway, I guess it is time to give up again. :(

Or, should I just go ahead and download 020 and try that. It includes the fix from 012, right?
Click to expand...

If you want to make the fix to 011 yourself, you can do the following;

  • Go to <FALLFURTHERDIRECTORY>\Assets\XML\Art
  • Open Civ4ArtDefinesUnit.xml (notepad can do it, or any other text editor)
  • Use the search option to find "ART_DEF_UNIT_CHOSEN_ARCHOS"
  • In the "<Button>" line immediately afterwards, there is a line of text "<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/units/Archos Chosen.dds</Button>" At the start of the filename there is a comma that shouldn't be there. Delete the comma and save.

The top of the Chosen entry should look like
Code: 
            <Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_CHAMPION_ARCHOS</Type>
            <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/units/Archos Chosen.dds</Button>
            <fScale>0.49</fScale>
when you're done.

==

That should deal with the Archos specific issue and won't break save games. Other than that, I'd recommend using 020 as soon as you've finished with the current games. There's quite a bit of new stuff/rebalancing in it, as well as the earlier fixes.
 
I just copied my FF folder and installed v 2.0 to save my current archos game in 1.2

1st of all , Vehem - you did awesome job, the lizzies are great, keep on doing things how you do and what you do.

2. i found bug. it somewhat critical. Meskiwaki (Chislev hero) aviable to build for all races. I see him aviable to build with Mazatl.

3. Inquisitors for Lizzies need new model :p They are still human-looking-red-robe-wearing guys.
 
Played my first game as the Cualli, (the release version)

Good Points

1. Loved the trails
2. Loved the priest units.
3. Loved basically everything except...

1. I think roads in captured cities should automatically become trails, the Cualli aren't going to be maintaining them as roads, so they'd get all overgrown and trail-like

2. Not sure I like the priests of (forget the name) relying on gems, too much overlap with RoK there and no flavour reason that I can think of.

3. Don't really like the LH, didn't look very good quality - I prefered the one of the draconian with its wings editted off (if it had a darker background)

4. Dislike the cavalry units. I think the Cualli are pretty strong as it is without getting free (dont require horses) cav. units, and the units themselves looked quite poor quality (no offense whoever made them). Also, I can't really imagine all those dinosaurs roaming around erebus - I really, honestly think it would be better, more balanced, and more flavoursome if the lizzie civs cav. units were riding horses.

5. Whenever I met a new civ they all said something along the lines of ''greetings kolsehvan would you rather be my friend or foe'', which I assume is the Cualli's diplo speech.
 
played a game with the mazatl, and the change of flavour was great (rainforest maptype is simply made for them, like arborea for the elves). Some things seem out of place though:

1. they've got unique religious buildings, yet the leader is agnostic, which means you have to wait for an other player to found the religion and spread it to you. Starting with religion instead of nationhood all adds up to this. My suggestion: lose the agnostic

my bad, just realised the religious building - pantheon link, not requiring any religions.

2. they get double movement through jungles, but not through deep jungles.

3. I'd add forests turning into jungles when standing on wetlands (not sure if already happening), and increasing the spread of wetlands under forests within cultural borders. The lizards should actively encourage forests to turn swamp (more food!), but i'm hardly seeing it.

4. a fully developed swamp-deep forest tile is insane, with an even higher yield than an elven ancient forest + cottage. I'd lose 1 food somewhere along the way

I'll play around with them some more, and will let you know what i find :)
 
More about Cualli - i think all that terrain vitalising and changing to wetland is bit... too much, just very fast and free vitalising.... May be still plains should not convert to wetlands, and grassland > wetlands conversion should be bit slower?
With all that food i can just cut out my pop and build very very fast. With no weak points and insanely strong disciples.
May be disallow to their metal units to use bronze/iron/mithril and instead of it make Sacrificial/ Blood Gem Gems made weapons promo (+2 with gems for swordsman) (like priests use)
 
Kol.7 said:
1. I think roads in captured cities should automatically become trails, the Cualli aren't going to be maintaining them as roads, so they'd get all overgrown and trail-like

2. Not sure I like the priests of (forget the name) relying on gems, too much overlap with RoK there and no flavour reason that I can think of.
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i actually disagree with those ^
converting roads will be too much, road still road, and it should pass alot alot of time that road overgrown and become trail. , it will be also odd if when other civ gets city back at next turn....

about gems - actually ok. Alot of sacrificial weapons was made of... glass, semi-precisious stuff, so gems are actually fit here very well. Blood sacrifices, Aurgunnon and magic power from precisious gems to get soul and transfer it to Aurgunnon via sacrifice at most precise way.
 
First off some responses:

1. I think roads in captured cities should automatically become trails, the Cualli aren't going to be maintaining them as roads, so they'd get all overgrown and trail-like

2. Not sure I like the priests of (forget the name) relying on gems, too much overlap with RoK there and no flavour reason that I can think of.

3. Don't really like the LH, didn't look very good quality - I prefered the one of the draconian with its wings editted off (if it had a darker background)

4. Dislike the cavalry units. I think the Cualli are pretty strong as it is without getting free (dont require horses) cav. units, and the units themselves looked quite poor quality (no offense whoever made them). Also, I can't really imagine all those dinosaurs roaming around erebus - I really, honestly think it would be better, more balanced, and more flavoursome if the lizzie civs cav. units were riding horses.
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1. i agree with this.

2. i disagree. Slyvann is right that i think it represents obsidian and other presious stones. plus if you look at their sword its inscribed in red letters (i assumed rubys for some reason) so it makes sense to me.

3. the draconian one without wings is already used for the Mazatle leader, just with recolouring and a new back ground (compare the 2).

4. the cavalry still require horses. i couldnt build them without horses. and they look fine and fit the theme fine. i like them.

i found bug. it somewhat critical. Meskiwaki (Chislev hero) aviable to build for all races. I see him aviable to build with Mazatl.
Click to expand...

i was alao able to build him as cualli.

More about Cualli - i think all that terrain vitalising and changing to wetland is bit... too much, just very fast and free vitalising.... May be still plains should not convert to wetlands, and grassland > wetlands conversion should be bit slower?
With all that food i can just cut out my pop and build very very fast. With no weak points and insanely strong disciples.
May be disallow to their metal units to use bronze/iron/mithril and instead of it make Sacrificial/ Blood Gem Gems made weapons promo (+2 with gems for swordsman) (like priests use)
Click to expand...

the teraforming and the slavery fit perfectly with cualli. the high food from swamps gives them losts of pop, and then the blood and sacrifices civic allows them to cull the pop. i never had a city over pop 7 in my game (except my capital) because i had to maintain happyness, and sacrificing pop was the only way i could. plus it helped with building production nicely.
i didnt find this overpowered as in my last game i was sitting on average points with both absaroke and keelyn way ahead of me in points, and fearyl not far behind.

1. they've got unique religious buildings, yet the leader is agnostic, which means you have to wait for an other player to found the religion and spread it to you. Starting with religion instead of nationhood all adds up to this. My suggestion: lose the agnostic

2. they get double movement through jungles, but not through deep jungles.
Click to expand...

1. when the civilopedia entries are put in it will all make sense to you :). plus you dont need to found the religions for their 2 unique temples, you can build them both straight off the bat

2. i found that they actually get double movement over all jungle and wetlands terrain. i may be wrong though...


---------

Now my other observations:

1. Cualli and mazatle are never hit hard by blight. they are probably the safest civs from blight in the game, more so than Sheime (cant spell it). why? because the swamp benefits dont get removed like other food improvments. other civs lose their farms, but the swamps act exactly like farms anyway, thus no (or very minimal) food loss. im not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing, just thought id point it out :)

2. the Cualli world spell does not grant free civilian specialists to captured cities. i captured a couple of barb cities after i cast it and they didnt get the benefit, but my new settled cities did.

3. i was never able to give my priests more than 'empower 1' using the troop sacrificing mechanic. how do you get higher levels of empowerment?

4. over all the cualli are a very enjoyable civ to play, and i think they can be very deadly if given the chance and if they are played well.
 
How about roads disappear or turn into trail once jungle/marsh overgrow them? Can this be done in python?
 
one other thing i notcied is that the lizzies are really crippled by the spread of hell, a little more so than others. though i think this balances out their resitance to blight rather nicely.

How about roads disappear or turn into trail once jungle/marsh overgrow them? Can this be done in python?
Click to expand...

that would be nice if it is possible :)
 
Kol.7 said:
Played my first game as the Cualli, (the release version)
1. I think roads in captured cities should automatically become trails, the Cualli aren't going to be maintaining them as roads, so they'd get all overgrown and trail-like
Click to expand...

Do able, I'd probably do it when jungle spreads to the tile.

2. Not sure I like the priests of (forget the name) relying on gems, too much overlap with RoK there and no flavour reason that I can think of.
Click to expand...

Mostly the "sacrificial, ornamental weapon/armour" side of things as mentioned by the others - plus it needed a resource requirement for balance reasons I think, and Incense didn't seem to fit. Gold was another option.

3. Don't really like the LH, didn't look very good quality - I prefered the one of the draconian with its wings editted off (if it had a darker background)
Click to expand...

The Mazatl got that one...

4. Dislike the cavalry units. I think the Cualli are pretty strong as it is without getting free (dont require horses) cav. units, and the units themselves looked quite poor quality (no offense whoever made them). Also, I can't really imagine all those dinosaurs roaming around erebus - I really, honestly think it would be better, more balanced, and more flavoursome if the lizzie civs cav. units were riding horses.
Click to expand...

They do require horses - they're only an artstyle change (there's nothing "unique" about them other than the way they look). I quite like the look of the giant lizards - though I can see where you're coming from. Might be something that just "needs getting used to".

5. Whenever I met a new civ they all said something along the lines of ''greetings kolsehvan would you rather be my friend or foe'', which I assume is the Cualli's diplo speech.
Click to expand...

Hmm - the way I changed things for the sake of later expansion is to allow a "Default" greeting if no others are found (rather than blank text). It seems to choose either the normal diplo-text or the default at random. I'll check into that one again though - it was one of the last things I did.

2. the Cualli world spell does not grant free civilian specialists to captured cities. i captured a couple of barb cities after i cast it and they didnt get the benefit, but my new settled cities did.
Click to expand...

Hmm - shouldn't grant them to any city created/captured after it's initially cast. The timing is important for that reason. Are you sure they were added to newly settled cities?

Heroes for Wrong Races
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I'll have a look at that one too - thanks.
 
Hmmm... Well even if they do require horses still, I just can't imagine those blantantly WH dinosaurs roaming erebus. Anyway, I started a new small pangaea map as the Archos with all the Fall Further civs in. So far I'm absolutely loving the Archos, which is strange because TBH I wasn't too impressed with the idea when i first read about it. I'm having ''the wrong diplo'' thing with them too. Whenever I talk to another civ they always have the same greeting for me.
 
Again, great work has gone into this ModMod. Where do you people find the time? It continuously amazes me that you folks can do so much so quickly.

A note about the Cualli: As they will probably keep their unique labor civic, and they are unlikely to be part of the Undercouncil until late in the game due to their Agnostic trait, they have no means of generating slaves, though this a large part of their culture. I would suggest having an ability similar to the Taskmaster on one or more of their units, to keep with the theme.

Another idea: Shouldn't the Clan (and Barb) Lizard man units be slightly revamped and given the Lizard Kin promotion in this ModMod? It would seem more appropriate to me than just leaving them as is.

One last thought: The Agnostic trait limits the access to Hero units of the tribes that have it (All religions offer atleast one, most two). The Grigori are supplimented for this by the Adventurers, but both of the Lizzies still have only one late game hero at their disposal. I would suggest considering giving each an early to mid-game Hero to help balance this out.
 
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