10 Things You Aren't Doing in BNW (But Should)

Yzman said:
The list is ok for the most part but...

NEVER DO #8.
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+1

good list other than that glaring one.

Oh also for consulates (#6) - you should pledge to protect the CS at least 10 turns BEFORE you take the policy, not after. Otherwise you just wasted 10 turns.
 
chazzycat said:
+1

good list other than that glaring one.

Oh also for consulates (#6) - you should pledge to protect the CS at least 10 turns BEFORE you take the policy, not after. Otherwise you just wasted 10 turns.
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I registered for CivFanatics just to suggest what the last two posters have now already suggested... in the long run, those extra policies just for earning more culture just don't pay for themselves. Even just opening tradition for the +3 culture before opening liberty (a strategy I've seen suggested a few times) doesn't ultimately help you get through liberty any faster.

To be fair, if the OP's primary motivation was to unlock the three wonders associated with each, then at certain difficulty levels that is a legitimate reason. The Hanging Gardens in particular is definitely worth one social policy. But I'm on the verge of winning my first Immortal game after having just moved up, and I'm pretty sure at that level I'd consider myself lucky to get one of those three wonders, let alone all three.
 
I forgot to mention it earlier, but I really like the numbered list format (i.e. "10 things you should know" instead of just "Tips for Beginners"). I can't recall seeing any posts that used it before, at least not recently. I hope that more people emulate that style the future.

It reminds me a bit of the cracked.com format, albeit with fewer boob jokes.
 
#10: Yes, everyone does this unless they have no idea what pillaging is.
#9: NO, The GG benefit is better. Make Citadels only if you have excess GG and are on defense.
#8: Absolutely NOT, Go straight for the Liberty Settler, Or Landed Elite/Monarchy in Tradition
#7: Archers are good, this is a no brainer.
#6: Filling out tradition/liberty then as much Rationalism as possible + Ideology is going to be better.
#5: Scout first if ruins are turned on. Otherwise no.
#4: Yes, Most ppl Use caravans for money, the food/hammers is far better. Who cares if you're embargoed if all your trades are with yourself..
#3: Depends on the Situation, Science is very important. If at war then yes, stay happy
#2: Yes, Some cities will be a bane. Get rid of them and get brownie points in the process.
#1: Yes, this should be common sense.
 
I have done tradition to get the wonder bonus, then hit liberty. It happens when my understanding of the map changes after I hit tradition. If I realize I need to go wide after I a committed to building a wonder. Then I will run the whole liberty tree, then go back to tradition.
 
#11 - On the turn before you declare war (or several turns before), try to bribe your target into a war with someone else. Best case scenario is someone they have a Declaration of Friendship with. Offer them the whole world; it won't matter. The deal is cancelled when you declare on them and whoever the other civ is won't care what you do to them even if you raze them to the ground.
 
CountAccountant said:
Some mention of the National College would be good. And number three would benefit from mentioning that, at (-5 gp) and lower, your units will start disbanding at one per turn.
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do they? I know this was true pre-BNW, but since I started BNW and went in the red more often than before, I never saw units being disbanded even at lower than -5GPT. Even despite getting the warning about being low on money and losing units, the only effect I noticed once I hit 0 gold is lowering science. Never saw, in BNW, units being disbanded..
 
isau said:
#11 - On the turn before you declare war (or several turns before), try to bribe your target into a war with someone else. Best case scenario is someone they have a Declaration of Friendship with. Offer them the whole world; it won't matter. The deal is cancelled when you declare on them and whoever the other civ is won't care what you do to them even if you raze them to the ground.
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That might cross the line into "exploiting the AI" for my personal tastes, but if it works for you, enjoy!
 
householder said:
I do have a question regarding citadels, though. Does the damage stack? If I have three citadels, spaced one hex apart, and someone tries to thread between them, will their unit take damage from more than one citadel on the same turn?
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No, the damage does not stack. A unit will lose 30 HP if it is touching one or more enemy Citadels at the end of its turn.
 
Pillaging is the reason why I actually build cavalry units now. Sure, my knights suck at taking cities, but they can heal 50hp the same turn and be ready to try again next turn. I want to play as the ottomans just so I can have fun playing with a spihahi that can pillage for free. Infinite health!

I'm not sure how much the AI actually does weight it into peace talks though...
 
TiVO said:
I would think this would be risky, especially if you've got a warmonger who likes to bully citystates. Now you've got to either take the diplo hit everytime they bully a CS, or lose affection with the CS.
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No, the diplo hit isn't that big. Really stupid that there's a no-brainer policy for every game.
 
I wouldn't open liberty, tradition and honor, but with the tradition opener you're also getting a massive boost to land acquisition in all of your cities, it's almost a must have. I almost say they should boost the base tile gain rate and nerf tradition just to compensate for how necessary it is.
 
Solid tips for the most part, nice list :)

TiVO said:
I was actually wondering if taking the first one in two trees you don't intend on finishing wouldn't set you back from finishing the one you do intend to finish. Good to know.

Not sure I would tell a new player to turn on raging barbarians, but the Honor opener lets you know when a new barb camp spawns, so even on normal barbarian mode, you're never wanting for roaming barbs to kill.



I would think this would be risky, especially if you've got a warmonger who likes to bully citystates. Now you've got to either take the diplo hit everytime they bully a CS, or lose affection with the CS.



Forgive my newbishness, but what's the point in conquering a city then? Keep it! Make it your puppet and convert the lands around it to trading posts. Glory to the Empire! :king:



I'm pretty sure liberating a CS doesn't make it your perma-ally. And you get do get a diplo-bonus for reviving a dead Civ, but does it out-weigh any other diplo-penalties you might accumulate over the rest of the game?

Thanks for the list though, good food for thought. :goodjob:
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I actually would not recommend opening, even honor opening alone is not worth the culture because by the time you're vying for the more important policies/tenets your costs will just be sky high.

Always do consulates + pledge, the diplo hit is negligible, you can make it up ten times over by proposing world fair or arts funding in the world congress (since the only thing AI ever does is ban this or that)

conquer the capital, take a city with peace negotiation, sell said city to warmonger more, in my domination game I was the #2 military power, I took over Copenhagen and got another 9 pop city from him for peace, sold it to the Celts (#1 military power at the time) for a DoW against China (so I can swoop in and take its capital for myself after the Celt units have tanked all the damage), I'm a collector of capitals, random cities don't interest me except for as a negotiation tool.
 
Jatta Pake said:
These are my top ten things new players should be doing in BNW but are not:

10. Pillage - Pillaging enemy improvements damages the improvement making it unusable by the enemy. It also gives +25 health and some gold. AI will consider surrendering if you are devastating their territory.
9. Use Great Generals to create Citadels - The AI cannot figure out how to take out a Citadel and will waste endless units on it. Any enemy unit ending it's turn on or adjacent to a Citadel automatically takes -30 damage. You don't need to have a unit stationed inside for this benefit! However, it is worth having a unit that can absorb some punishment because the Zones of Control will mean any enemy moving through the area will end more turns on or near the Citadel. The Citadel also steals territory so it's fun to rob an AI when they spawn near you of their precious luxuries.
8. Open Tradition, Liberty, and Honor - The opener for all three policies gives you culture which you need to get even more policies. Additionally, each make a Wonder available to build. Don't bother going down a single policy path until you've opened all three. And the Tradition opener gives you +3 Culture per turn for the entire game so it helps you open other policies faster if you go Tradition first. Some will debate the value of opening Honor but if you turn on Raging Barbarians, the Honor opener outshines Liberty in culture production.
7. Build an Archer - A pop 3 city with an Archer can usually hold off an AI invasion force of three warriors and three archers. The game is highly skewed towards defense in the early game making warfare a losing proposition for attackers.
6. Open Patronage and Open Consulates, Then Promise to Protect Every City State - For the cost of two social policies, you can become Friendly with every City State on the map and gain all of their attendant bonuses. This is required if you have Venice, Greece, and/or Austria in the game and you don't want them to win early with a Diplomatic Victory.
5. Build a Scout as Your First Build - Scouts with Honor opened are great Barbarian killers at the beginning of the game. Don't try to explore the world with your Warrior. It's too slow and can't get to goody huts before the AI. A Scout popping a single goody hut will pay for itself in early Science, gold, population, culture or faith.
4. Use Internal Trade Routes - The food and production hammers generated by an internal trade route are bonuses. They don't take away any food or production from the city of origin. This is counter-intuitive and most players don't realize it. Bonus food is especially critical has high Pop cities are very important.
3. It's Better to Be Broke Than Unhappy - Falling into the red with negative gold per turn will pull from Science but it won't cripple you. Falling into negative happiness (unhappiness) is far more destructive. It stops your city growth (which is critical as one Pop 30 city is worth six Pop 10 cities). It also reduces production and war fighting ability. And you need production as it is often the only viable way to boost Happiness with new buildings. Losing a war is always bad period. If you are broke, you can always immediately disband your Workers for some quick cash and get a boost to gold per turn.
2. Sell Minor Conquested Cities To The AI - Cities are often rubbish after a conquest. The people are unhappy, the best buildings have been destroyed, and you generally have to invest some gold into making it a viable addition to your empire. It's much more strategically useful to have another AI take over the city. They act as a buffer and can make two distant civs share a border. If they are belligerent with each other, it may spark a war between the two.
1. Liberate Crap Cities and Annex Capitals- Bringing City States and dead Civs back to life often gives you an ally for the rest of the game. But always keep a Capital for yourself. They are often worth investing in to make them a viable city in your empire. Especially if they have Wonders and Great Works of Art.
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10-9: no disagreements.
8: I don't think you have to do that. Once you are hemmed in, Honor opener becomes less useful. Best to stick with tradition to get the growth bonus.
7: I disagree. You would need at least 2 archers to hold off such a force because AI loves insta-heal promotions. I agree in building an archer quickly if you're next to a warlike civ.
6: Not a good idea if another civ starts bullying the CS's.
5: Hm, perhaps this is something I could consider in future games.
4: Indeed. But only if gpt is stable enough.
3: Debatable: if you're broke, science takes a big hit and you start losing troops, making you vulnerable to warmongers. If you're unhappy, the effects depend on how unhappy your empire is. Well of course -20 :mad: is really bad and you start losing cities and getting barbs, but -1 - -9 isn't too bad. If you get heathen conversion and -10 - -19 :mad:, you get 2-3 free troops every 5 turns if you station a missionary at the capital. For me, it would depend on the context.
2: I have done this a few times in vanilla and BNW, but crap cities don't go for very much. In vanilla, I managed to sell a reasonably good city I captured for 5000 gold. In BNW I only managed to get a few luxury resources and some gpt. To expand on 2, sell flipped cities away, especially if they're far away. Oh, and remember to move the great works back home before you sell the city back!
1: I tend to keep captured capitals puppeted, at least until the resistance is over.
 
Xiao Xiong said:
Anyone else save up their barbarians?

In the early game I don't kill barbs. Just wound them until they are almost dead. Then when I get honor I have a barb feast, wipe out all the half dead barbs for much culture.
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I do something like this - if an encampment appears in a convenient spot, I'll leave an archer or two by it and kill any spawning unit, giving me a nice steady culture bonus.
 
10. -

When pillaging, focus on taking out their happiness resources. Get them unhappy and they'll be fighting poorly. (It's mean, though. And the AI is usually kind enough not to do that to you, even though they should.)


9. -

Only build a Citadel if you're sure you don't plan to keep expanding in that direction. But yeah, it's a wonderful defense.

Once the citadel winds up deep inside your territory it's pretty much useless.


8. -

Usually I open tradition, then honor, then Liberty and continue on Liberty.

And the only reason I'm opening liberty is for the free settler, so maybe I'll be able to fit one more early game wonder.

If I manage to finish the whole liberty group, then I pick a Great Engineer as my free great person and use him to fit yet another wonder I had otherwise expected to lose. (Can be very demoralizing if another civ finishes that wonder the same turn as I use him, though.)



7. -

My advice instead is to save up about 400 gold and not spend it. If another civ attacks you can buy an archer. Meanwhile you're not losing out on maintenance.

In general, money is better than troops that way.


6. -

Either you can do this, or you can go Autocracy/Gunboat diplomacy, and keep a large navy. Once you've run a City state's influence up to about 200, Consulates is a moot point.



5.-

Also it's really nice if a scout gets promoted to an Archer. Then you have a super mobile archer around for the rest of the game (if you're careful not to let it die.)


4. -


Must admit I didn't know that it was a pure bonus either. Will definitely remember that.

So basically building a trade caravan in my capital is as good as a granary for the new city. Good to know if my Civ starts out inland and I want to build the Colossus in a second city.


3. -

Yeah. Broke is easier to solve. Much easier to get a civ to trade you gold for a lux resource than it is to get them to trade you a lux resource for gold.


2. -

Also a good idea if you capture a city and know you won't be able to hold it. But usually I don't sell them for much. Basically just give them away because I don't want them. It can be good to have a buffer state between you and your enemy so they'll attack them next time instead of you.

But be careful not to sell it to a civ that is friendly with the one you are at war with, or they might decide to liberate it.


1.

Why Annex? Why not puppet and then maybe Annex later?

I'm pretty sure puppets count less against your policy requirements (though I'm not entirely sure of that.)
 
householder said:
That was what I was thinking, too. Plus, I would be concerned about the hit that we take on science with each city we own or control.

I do have a question regarding citadels, though. Does the damage stack? If I have three citadels, spaced one hex apart, and someone tries to thread between them, will their unit take damage from more than one citadel on the same turn?
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no it does not stack. It says so in civilopedia. Never actually tested it though.
 
kojax said:
10. -

When pillaging, focus on taking out their happiness resources. Get them unhappy and they'll be fighting poorly. (It's mean, though. And the AI is usually kind enough not to do that to you, even though they should.)


9. -

Only build a Citadel if you're sure you don't plan to keep expanding in that direction. But yeah, it's a wonderful defense.

Once the citadel winds up deep inside your territory it's pretty much useless.


8. -

Usually I open tradition, then honor, then Liberty and continue on Liberty.

And the only reason I'm opening liberty is for the free settler, so maybe I'll be able to fit one more early game wonder.

If I manage to finish the whole liberty group, then I pick a Great Engineer as my free great person and use him to fit yet another wonder I had otherwise expected to lose. (Can be very demoralizing if another civ finishes that wonder the same turn as I use him, though.)



7. -

My advice instead is to save up about 400 gold and not spend it. If another civ attacks you can buy an archer. Meanwhile you're not losing out on maintenance.

In general, money is better than troops that way.


6. -

Either you can do this, or you can go Autocracy/Gunboat diplomacy, and keep a large navy. Once you've run a City state's influence up to about 200, Consulates is a moot point.



5.-

Also it's really nice if a scout gets promoted to an Archer. Then you have a super mobile archer around for the rest of the game (if you're careful not to let it die.)


4. -


Must admit I didn't know that it was a pure bonus either. Will definitely remember that.

So basically building a trade caravan in my capital is as good as a granary for the new city. Good to know if my Civ starts out inland and I want to build the Colossus in a second city.


3. -

Yeah. Broke is easier to solve. Much easier to get a civ to trade you gold for a lux resource than it is to get them to trade you a lux resource for gold.


2. -

Also a good idea if you capture a city and know you won't be able to hold it. But usually I don't sell them for much. Basically just give them away because I don't want them. It can be good to have a buffer state between you and your enemy so they'll attack them next time instead of you.

But be careful not to sell it to a civ that is friendly with the one you are at war with, or they might decide to liberate it.


1.

Why Annex? Why not puppet and then maybe Annex later?

I'm pretty sure puppets count less against your policy requirements (though I'm not entirely sure of that.)
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I disagree with number 9. Even if you plan on expanding in that direction a citadel can be an amazing tool to whittle down an opposing army especially in a choke point. Once the ai stupidly keeps sending unit after unit at the citadel you will not only wear out their army but you will gain major experience to buff your units. You can then steamroll. A great general that ends up deep inside your territory is well worth the destruction caused. Not to mention all the experience your units acquire will net you another one quickly.
 
Bl01_Z said:
no it does not stack. It says so in civilopedia. Never actually tested it though.
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Does not stack for sure. Tested thoroughly in countless multiplayer team games. Things like 6 citadels, all next to each other, is common!:eek: Citadel wars is an entire branch of Civ multiplayer theory that is only known to small group of die-hards. When to plant, where to place, how to clear the way, how do defend potential citadel spots, etc.

You have tricks like - in a field of many citadels, where another citadel cannot be planted, you use a worker to turn an existing citadel into a farm or something (that turn citadel destroyed) then you replace with new citadel, claiming all enemy citadels next to it!

Yea, citadels cause big game balance wackiness...:cry:
 
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