Cristo Redentor

How useful is it? It only seems to shave a few turns off of your next SP. Or am I missing something?

It's not a very important wonder, no. Only good if you have nothing better to build.

Yeah, I usually build it when I have nothing better to do while waiting for the World Leader vote in a DiploVic. And at that point in the game, it's mostly meaningless.

It really depends on your situation, most of the time it will be useless to build unless you don't have anything better to make. If you're not doing too well in the culture department it's worth it, but unless your policy cost is high and your culture per turn is low, don't build it.

you basically build this wonder to get a 10% discount on one maybe two policies. it would have to come earlier and come with a free policy to be of any value

in fact aside from hubble and ideology wonders most late wonders arent worth it.

If you saved your great writers to burn them during the World Fair bonus, you can go for Cristo Redentor and I think it will give you at least one extra policy.

Excepting a few rare circumstances it's basically a waste of hammers that comes too late in the game to be of any real use relative to the benefit it gives a player.

Phukit said:

it would have to come earlier and come with a free policy to be of any value

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It would make a defenetly top tier wonder if it came on Industrial Era as you described.

CR is not usually useful because by the time it comes you are expected to be well paced for victory. If not, it may help you catch up. It might be a good idea if you need to pick tenets fast (i.e. you changed Ideology, or for any other reason you got yourself far behind in the game) but more likely you won't need it.

Carazycool said:

How useful is it? It only seems to shave a few turns off of your next SP. Or am I missing something?

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Back in the Vanilla and even G&K days, when going for Cultural victory it was extremely useful.

Now it's kind of bland; you basically get your next policy moved up about 1/2 a policy and future ones about 3 turns earlier.

The main use is if you are well ahead of the AI but have decided NOT to win as fast as possible but instead to run up the official score.

The bonus it gives is not big enough. It should be a 50% reduction.

Or this effect should be moved to the stone age and something better moved here. Like, swap Terracotta with this one. Terracotta makes you get more policies. Cristo gets you more army. Terracotta always gets you what, two free army units?

It does have a secondary benefit in that it provides +5 culture at a time in the tech tree where few wonders provide raw culture. This will convert to tourism once you have a hotel, airport & National Visitors Centre which accelerates your culture victory.

I guess it is similar to having a landmark. It's not a big difference in tourism but it helps - so build it if you need tourism and if there is nothing more urgent.

I hard build it to feel better about all those ancient era wonders that I never see...

It's one of my guilty pleasures...

I usually build it because it comes with plastics, which I always beeline regardless of VC after Oxford-slinging radio. If I'm not going for a culture victory (and consequently haven't spent my 1000faith GE on Eiffel), I'll usually faith-purchase an engineer on it. Since plastics is beelined, it's usually significantly more expensive than other wonders that are available at the time (since those are 1st tier industrial wonders and Cristo is 2nd tier modern.) Also since plastics is beelined, there's enough game left for it to be compounded more than a few times...

I find it to be a win-win scenario:

1.) for tourism victories, it doesn't even shave a turn off of policy/tenet times because I'm usually getting a policy more than once every ten turns. However, it has a base culture yield of 5, 8 if cultural heritage sites has been passed (which, on deity, most of the other civs love to propose or gets you a positive diplo modifier if you propose it.) That translates to an extra 2.5 tourism (or 4 with Cultural Heritage) with hotel, 5 or 8 with airport. And then multipliers, multipliers, multipliers! Figure +50% (7.5 or 12) with your world religion since it will be in the capital, +33% with the level 3 freedom tenet, extra civ specific percentage bonuses with borders/religion/trade route, and then doubled during Igames and doubled again after internet. So for CVs, it can acount for 20-30 tourism per turn after all the multipliers, and that increased total affects how much musician bombs are worth. All in all, it's not Sistine or Pisa in terms of effectiveness, but unlike those two wonders, it is always going to be a possibility.

2.) For non-tourism games, I'm usually getting a new policy every 12-20 turns, which means that Cristo is knocking 1-2 turns off of policy/tenet times, and the +5 culture isn't game breaking but is nothing to scoff at either. And again, since I (we?) go for plastics so early, there's often enough time left in the game for it to affect at least 5, maybe as many as 10 policies.

I consider building it at a time when I usually have Research Labs, Factories and Stock Exchanges up, so if anything it will be competing with (1) Units, (2) Research or Cash, if you are getting a GS in 8 turns or less, (3) Late game buildings like Medical Labs, Nuclear Plants, Solar Plants, Recycling Centers, Stadiums and others.

Because I personally think that most buildings in (3) are hardly worth building, I definitely think that CR is worth investing in if you don't need (1) or (2).

It is useful for any VC, though particulary good for a cultural victory (since the culture will translate into tourism at a point where you should have stacked a lot of multipliers) and a science victory, particulary if your game has been very culture-weak.

I have had a few science games where I did not have the culture to finish Tradition + 2 in commerce + Rationalism and then get to my tier 3 tenet. In a (very situational) case like this CR is very valuable.

Generally speaking there is very little harm in building this at a time where a lot of your cities will have more than 100 production value.

If you however have not built your Research Labs, Factories, Hospitals or Stock Exchanges you are just crippling yourself.

Nuclear Plants/Solar Plants can shave turns off late wonders such as Hubble or Apollo or even International Games. You should have enough cash to rush buy them. CR is usually waste of hammers and there are always better things to build. You can always build research if you have nothing else. At best it gives you a few turns earlier SP.

Volcanon said:

The bonus it gives is not big enough. It should be a 50% reduction.

Or this effect should be moved to the stone age and something better moved here. Like, swap Terracotta with this one. Terracotta makes you get more policies. Cristo gets you more army. Terracotta always gets you what, two free army units?

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I beg to differ...

claudiupb said:

If you saved your great writers to burn them during the World Fair bonus, you can go for Cristo Redentor and I think it will give you at least one extra policy.

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You should be able to have about 5 GW waiting for social policies when the World's Fair finishes (actually, 8 turns later to maximize benefit). With 10% off all social policies, this is like a free policy. In a high production city (hello Petra) you can build it in a few turns. Depending on the amount of time it takes to reach the end of the game, you might get a 2nd free policy as well.

Here are some screenshot from a recent game:

Cristo Redentor is completed. Time to burn some GW for policies.

Each GW is worth 5,867 culture.

Here is my social policy tree (also have 6 tenets in Freedom)

Interesting, though as Poland I didn't thing Social Policies were a big deal. Well, insofar as they seem to come pretty readily.

Completing commerce could get you some extra happiness just in case theres ideological unhappiness.