I've yet to finish a game without having to switch Ideologies.

I'm saying the reasons are not cultural, but diplomatic. Civs that are friendly (or faking it) will grant open borders regardless of how much tourism you have

I wasn't talking about culture at all, I was talking about tourism, too.
 
You guys are talking about two different things. Reddish is claiming that the primary factor in AI refusing/accepting open borders is your tourism level. Stormtrooper is arguing that the primary factor is the AI's diplomatic status (Friendly, Guarded, etc.).

Quite possibly you are both right, but the only one I know about for sure is that if civs are Guarded/Hostile for any reason, they are less likely to give OB treaties.
 
You guys are talking about two different things. Reddish is claiming that the primary factor in AI refusing/accepting open borders is your tourism level. Stormtrooper is arguing that the primary factor is the AI's diplomatic status (Friendly, Guarded, etc.).

Quite possibly you are both right, but the only one I know about for sure is that if civs are Guarded/Hostile for any reason, they are less likely to give OB treaties.

I also agree that you have to have a good diplomatic status with the AI for the AI to get you to OB with them because it has happened to me before.
 
- Yes, the AI will take into account your Tourism level.
- Yes, the AI will also take into account your current diplomatic relationship
- The AI will also take into account other miscellaneous factors as well.


For reference, the deal value of Open Borders (from int CvDealAI::GetOpenBordersValue) is determined by:

Code:
if(eApproach == MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_FRIENDLY)
		return 50;

	if(bFromMe) 	// Me giving Open Borders to the other guy
	{
		// Approach is important
		switch(eApproach)
		{
		case MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_HOSTILE:
			iItemValue = 1000;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_GUARDED:
			iItemValue = 100;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_AFRAID:
			iItemValue = 20;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_FRIENDLY:
			iItemValue = 50;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_NEUTRAL:
			iItemValue = 75;
			break;
// Opinion also matters
		switch(GetPlayer()->GetDiplomacyAI()->GetMajorCivOpinion(eOtherPlayer))
		{
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_ALLY:
			iItemValue = 0;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_FRIEND:
			iItemValue *= 35;
			iItemValue /= 100;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_FAVORABLE:
			iItemValue *= 70;
			iItemValue /= 100;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_NEUTRAL:
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_COMPETITOR:
			iItemValue *= 150;
			iItemValue /= 100;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_ENEMY:
			iItemValue *= 400;
			iItemValue /= 100;
			break;
		case MAJOR_CIV_OPINION_UNFORGIVABLE:
			iItemValue = 10000;
			break;

// If they're at war with our enemies then we're more likely to give them OB
		int iNumEnemiesAtWarWith = GetPlayer()->GetDiplomacyAI()->GetNumOurEnemiesPlayerAtWarWith(eOtherPlayer);
		if(iNumEnemiesAtWarWith >= 2)
		{
			iItemValue *= 10;
			iItemValue /= 100;
		}
		else if(iNumEnemiesAtWarWith == 1)
		{
			iItemValue *= 25;
			iItemValue /= 100;
		}

		// Do we think he's going for culture victory?
		AIGrandStrategyTypes eCultureStrategy = (AIGrandStrategyTypes) GC.getInfoTypeForString("AIGRANDSTRATEGY_CULTURE");
		if (eCultureStrategy != NO_AIGRANDSTRATEGY && GetPlayer()->GetGrandStrategyAI()->GetGuessOtherPlayerActiveGrandStrategy(eOtherPlayer) == eCultureStrategy)
		{
			CvPlayer &kOtherPlayer = GET_PLAYER(eOtherPlayer);

			// If he has tourism and he's not influential on us yet, resist!
			if (kOtherPlayer.GetCulture()->GetTourism() > 0 && kOtherPlayer.GetCulture()->GetInfluenceOn(GetPlayer()->GetID()) < INFLUENCE_LEVEL_INFLUENTIAL)
			{
				iItemValue *= 500;
				iItemValue /= 100;
			}
		}

	// Other guy giving me Open Borders
	else
	{
		// Proximity is very important
		switch(GetPlayer()->GetProximityToPlayer(eOtherPlayer))
		{
		case PLAYER_PROXIMITY_DISTANT:
			iItemValue = 5;
			break;
		case PLAYER_PROXIMITY_FAR:
			iItemValue = 10;
			break;
		case PLAYER_PROXIMITY_CLOSE:
			iItemValue = 15;
			break;
		case PLAYER_PROXIMITY_NEIGHBORS:
			iItemValue = 30;
			break;

// Reduce value by half if the other guy only has a single City
		if(GET_PLAYER(eOtherPlayer).getNumCities() == 1)
		{
			iItemValue *= 50;
			iItemValue /= 100;
		}

		// Boost value greatly if we are going for a culture win
		// If going for culture win always want open borders against civs we need influence on
		AIGrandStrategyTypes eCultureStrategy = (AIGrandStrategyTypes) GC.getInfoTypeForString("AIGRANDSTRATEGY_CULTURE");
		if (eCultureStrategy != NO_AIGRANDSTRATEGY && GetPlayer()->GetGrandStrategyAI()->GetActiveGrandStrategy() == eCultureStrategy && GetPlayer()->GetCulture()->GetTourism() > 0 )
		{
			// The civ we need influence on the most should ALWAYS be included
			if (GetPlayer()->GetCulture()->GetCivLowestInfluence(false /*bCheckOpenBorders*/) == eOtherPlayer)
			{
				iItemValue *= 1000;
				iItemValue /= 100;
			}

			// If have influence over half the civs, want OB with the other half
			else if (GetPlayer()->GetCulture()->GetNumCivsToBeInfluentialOn() <= GetPlayer()->GetCulture()->GetNumCivsInfluentialOn())
			{
				if (GetPlayer()->GetCulture()->GetInfluenceLevel(eOtherPlayer) < INFLUENCE_LEVEL_INFLUENTIAL)
				{
					iItemValue *= 500;
					iItemValue /= 100;
				}
			}

			else if (GetPlayer()->GetProximityToPlayer(eOtherPlayer) == PLAYER_PROXIMITY_NEIGHBORS)
			{
				// If we're cramped then we want OB more with our neighbors
				if(GetPlayer()->IsCramped())
				{
					iItemValue *= 300;
					iItemValue /= 100;
				}
			}
		}
	}

	// Are we trying to find the middle point between what we think this item is worth and what another player thinks it's worth?
	if(bUseEvenValue)
	{
		iItemValue += GET_PLAYER(eOtherPlayer).GetDealAI()->GetOpenBordersValue(!bFromMe, GetPlayer()->GetID(), /*bUseEvenValue*/ false);

		iItemValue /= 2;
	}

	return iItemValue;

I have removed what clutter I can, so the original code is actually a little longer (contains debug/assert messages and so forth).

Keep in mind, the lower the value of an item, the less "gold per turn" it is worth in the eyes of the AI.

Also note that "Approach" (i.e. the face it shows you - Friendly/Hostile/Guarded/etc) and "Opinion Weight" (how much exactly it likes/hates you) are two totally different things.

If the AI is showing it's friendly face, the function will automatically return 50 (i.e. a very low number - something like 2.67 GPT for reference)...
 
What difficulty are you playing on? I've only ever had to switch once before (as Denmark). The rest of the time I normally lead tourism even when I'm playing as a warmonger or going for another VC (on Emperor). I think the trick is to think of tourism, as well as pure culture as defensive as well as offensive. A lot of people on here think of culture as the defence to tourism but if you're exerting pressure yourself it makes life a lot easier.
 
Ideology switching is never required if you have good planning.

I play on Domination victories on Deity and have seen myself getting up to 30-40 unhappiness from ideo pressure sometimes, but I still manage to survive it.

my tricks:

1. Sell conquered cities to bordering friendly civs for massive amounts of money.

2. Focus on conquering cities with wonders like Forbidden Palace / Notre Dame

3. Focus culturual policies/tenets on happiness
 
Well what do you know.. I have never gotten the impression that AIs don't really want to OB if they are largely pressured. I guess it coincided with my diplomatic relations which overrided their worries of being influenced, i.e. they were getting influenced but we were DoFs so they didn't care and vice versa, they weren't getting influenced but I denounced them so they were mad anyway
 
I agree if that if you pay attention tourism pressure, happiness, WC, etc., you should not have to switch. So, OP, feel free to provide more details if you are still feeling frustrated about ideologies.

But if get to ideologies early, the other thing I like to do is to &#8220;bet against myself&#8221;. If I can get two free especially, I actually go with Freedom (for the 6 Foreign Legions) or Order (for the 2/3 cost factories, not an instant, but does not take too many turns) &#8212; whichever is my second choice ideology. After one more SP and maybe building the associated wonder, I will consider switching. Having gotten the freebie, I don&#8217;t feel bad about switching.
 
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