The Community Deity Game #12 - Byzantium

Took a while to finish this game. I tried to not use battleships, so did not research electronics till the end - used artys to finish the game (and of course, well-upgraded frigates and captured ship of the lines)

Tried to get most of the points and got all from D-G, but failed A, B, and C.

points from D: 7 (all caps taken before electronics)
points from E: 3 (religion domination!)
points from F: 4 (all holy cities got converted)
points from G: 2 (again, religion domination!)

total points: 16

----------------

I started standard frigate rush around t150 with 5 frigates. England and Denmark were fighting for a while, and I joined England since I could liberate CS captured by Denmark (byblos) and didn't want to face ship of the line until I got range promos.

I rushed Industrialization for fast autocracy.

Spoiler :




After killing Denmark, I joined Dido to attack England. Took London t194 for Great Lighthouse and other wonders:

Spoiler :




I researched dynamite pretty late, but other civs were so slow anyway.

Spoiler :




Dutch was a runaway with 15 wonders. I finally took the cap with 10+ wonders. His planes were annoying... and he chose order, and I suffered unhappiness from it for a while.

Spoiler :




Such a nice land and cities...

Spoiler :




My first time choosing this. From the description, I thought it would allow missionaries to erase existing religion like great prophets, but it did not work in that way. Wasted reformation.

Spoiler :




Kept pushing in with artys and finished at T269. Policies:

Spoiler :




Religion:

Spoiler :




Last turn:

Spoiler :


 
Outstanding game Glory, and fun write-up. I love all of the SoL's.



glory7 said:
My first time choosing this. From the description, I thought it would allow missionaries to erase existing religion like great prophets, but it did not work in that way. Wasted reformation.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be the difference between "erase" and "erode".
 
glory7 said:
total points: 16
Click to expand...
Amazing game! And yet you left A, B, C on the table. You proved wrong my assertion that 17 points would be a 100%! I corrected OP to reflect your outstanding success.

What happened to the
Spoiler :
Ottomans
in your game? Did you help with their demise at all? He was the faraway runaway in my several plays.

My first time choosing this. From the description, I thought it would allow missionaries to erase existing religion like great prophets, but it did not work in that way. Wasted reformation.
Click to expand...
It is quite strong if you can use it early while missionaries are less than 300 faith. I do not know how much CS questing you do, but keep in mind that by late game, it can take more than a one GPr spread to convert a city.
 
beetle said:
Amazing game! And yet you left A, B, C on the table. You proved wrong my assertion that 17 points would be a 100%! I corrected OP to reflect your outstanding success.

What happened to the
Spoiler :
Ottomans
in your game? Did you help with their demise at all? He was the faraway runaway in my several plays.


It is quite strong if you can use it early while missionaries are less than 300 faith. I do not know how much CS questing you do, but keep in mind that by late game, it can take more than a one GPr spread to convert a city.
Click to expand...

Interesting that games may go very different directions. In this game,
Spoiler :
Ottomans
was actually eliminated by other civs, mainly by
Spoiler :
Japan
, when I arrived at that continent with frigates. I liberated them, and gave them lots of cities (and some of them later got recaptured/razed) as I suffered happiness problem all the time and I needed open border who won't stab me in the back.

I am quite surprised to hear that
Spoiler :
Netherland
was not a runaway... looking at the land, I find it hard to believe.
 
By the way, did you hand-pick CS types? I haven't seen a game without any culture CS - and that made this map even more difficult.
 
T242 DomV, 21 18 points

Many thanks to beetle for this map, and to everyone else who's contributed to this series. I've been lurking on this forum for a while now, and played and enjoyed many of the old Deity Challenge List games. I've decided I much prefer this series though. The achievements give the game a lot more flavor!

First time writing up one of my games... I'll try to focus on the parts that were important or might be different from other people's games.

Spoiler :
I captured Dido's first settler with my warrior and early scout-archer, then kept harrassing her from the isthmus NE of Carthage. I was able to kill all three warriors, which I wouldn't have thought possible... seems to be a quirk of this unique geography, and the AI's willingness to send warriors on suicidal attacks as long as it gets a flanking bonus. Camped around long enough to get two more workers and another settler. Dido paid 180G for peace on T51.

Super-secret trick to shutting down early enemy expansion on this map (warning: doing this will make you feel sleazy):
Spoiler :

Get your warrior to this spot quickly. Dido wants to settle there so badly that her settler/warrior will just stand around waiting. She'll even stick around for a while once you start shooting at her.
didofail2.jpg didofail.jpg didofail3.jpg

I wanted to play this the way the achievements and Byzantine UA suggest, so I took a Liberty-Piety mix and beelined Theology. The first settler...
Spoiler :

... went to Uluru, of course, as did the first cargo ship. That expo and the capital both had great production, so I went for Great Lighthouse, Borobudur, and Great Mosque (and was lucky enough to get all three). I founded the third religion on T65. Since I wasn't expecting to have time for Commerce policies, I chose a gold-centric religion (Initiation Rites + Church Property).

I built two Dromons while awaiting my free settler, and a few more while teching to Theology. When they had mostly reached 30 EXP killing barbs, I started farming Sidon. Three Dromons got the Range promotion at about the same time that I got a Great Admiral and opened Exploration. So with all that and the Great Lighthouse too, Dido's units scarcely got to fire back. Carthage fell on T125:
carthage.jpg

Next up had to be...
Spoiler :

England, because Liz had gone patronage and was stealing my CS alliances. Denmark asked me to declare war on her, so that was perfect. I also had (barely) time to convert most of her cities before we declared war.

I upgrade to Galeasses and attacked the Southern English cities, but I was nervous about sending them all the way to London... encountering SOLs with Galleasses trapped in the shallows would have been a catastrophe. So I waited until I my spy stole Navigation (T147) to take on London itself. Again, +2 movement/vision and range/logistics = cheating. The SOLs didn't do much, since England never started a turn with any of my units visible. London fell on T168.

I'm not sure there's much worth saying about the rest of the game. I'll summarize quickly:
Spoiler :

Harald had all coastal cities but no navy, so Denmark fell quickly (T184). I beelined Dynamite and sent a conventional artillery/cavalry army to the Netherlands. As they were finishing off Amsterdam (T210), my frigates killed the Ottoman fleet and established a beachhead for their landing near Istanbul. Japan and Songhai were also warring with the Ottomans, who were the runaway civ, and both were DOF with me until about when Istanbul fell (T221). Neither had much left to defend with at that point (T234, T242).

I didn't really build any military units after the initial fleet and art/cav army. I produced "just in case" forces in London, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, but they never saw action. After producing that army, my original 3 cities just built Wealth and happiness/wealth-producing buildings. I spent almost all of it on CS alliances and a few bribes.

Happiness was an issue throughout most of the game, despite getting Religious Center. Notre Dame and Chichen Itza were in the last 2 caps I took, and Liz didn't build Forbidden Palace until long after my forces had left her continent. I ended up selling nearly all of the non-capitals I captured, and all my ideology policies were for happiness.

Denmark was the only civ that founded a religion on my hemisphere, so Taoism was dominant there and the cash rolled in. On the other continents, I couldn't make much of a dent until the very end of the game, when I picked up the Evangelism Reformation belief and landed a squad of 3-use missionaries. I achieved majority religion mostly by burning down the cities that followed other religions.


Points/Achievements breakdown:
Spoiler :

A) 3 0 (fought Carthage with Dromons/Cataphracts only) -- EDIT: I only took Carthage itself. I was supposed to wipe out Dido entirely for this achievement. No cookie for me. :(
B) 3 (took Carthage before Compass)
C) 0 (didn't take any more capitals before Navigation)
D) 6 (took the remaining capitals without Electronics)
E) 3 (reformation, finishing Piety, world religion)
F) 4 (converted all rival holy cities)
G) 2 (majority religion)

= 21 18 pts total. I think the theoretical max is actually 29 btw. England and Denmark can be reached by shallow water, so you don't have to have Navigation (or even Compass). You need Astronomy to reach the other civs, but you don't necessarily need frigates. So that's B = 9, C = 8, D=0. I considered doing this, but it felt too contrived.

Final turn pics:
Spoiler :

domv.jpgfinalpolicies.jpgfinalreligion.jpgwc.jpg
 
Hi rgduck. Nice to see such a swift win. Could you tell us the story behind the low BPT? Did you sell science buildings like me, or did you just play a relatively illiterate game after Astronomy?
 
My game is moving along OK, as I'm now 2nd in tech with a bunch of GS coming up. I'm at war with Dido and it's just a matter of time as I've got planes and Battleships and she just got her first BS.

I ran into an oddity, which I'd love to hear a good explanation for. A couple of my Frigates scouted out the city formerly known as Melbourne. I say "formerly" because for some reason the name is showing up as "Truso" but when I click on the CS it still says "Melbourne". Can anyone explain?

Screen Shot 2016-05-07 at 11.47.23 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2016-05-07 at 11.47.40 AM.png
 
Shark Diver said:
I ran into an oddity, which I'd love to hear a good explanation for. A couple of my Frigates scouted out the city formerly known as Melbourne. I say "formerly" because for some reason the name is showing up as "Truso" but when I click on the CS it still says "Melbourne". Can anyone explain?
Click to expand...

The CS captured the
Spoiler :
Danish
city.
 
Question about achievement A

Spoiler :
Doesn't clearing your continent imply taking all cities on your continent (ie eliminating Dido from the game unless she had the time to settle elsewhere)? At least, that is how I interpreted it. I am asking because rgduck clearly left Dido alive on his continent and claimed 3 points for achievement A.
 
consentient said:
Hi rgduck. Nice to see such a swift win. Could you tell us the story behind the low BPT? Did you sell science buildings like me, or did you just play a relatively illiterate game after Astronomy?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I sold off most of my uni's after reaching Dynamite. I wanted all the cash I could get for CS alliances and the AI was being incredibly slow on tech. I never saw an enemy plane or even a cavalry unit.

BTW, you might be interested to know that that you taught me how to play domination. :D

I used to only play peaceful after the first 150 turns or so. Sometimes I'd take on an aggressive neighbor before T100, but then my war engine always stalled. I now know that I was doing lots of things wrong: not rushing to XBs and artillery, over-developing my cities, not prioritizing gold, etc. The few dominations I won were painful late-game slogs.

Then I encountered the Shoshone DCL (#41), and your comments in that thread. The info you offered was super-helpful, as was your encouraging people to keep trying that map and to use it like a training exercise. I remember reading this comment:

consentient said:
You'll have a much harder time of things leaving it that late. I don't understand your reluctance to figure out what you did that was not so optimal and try to refine your play to meet the windows.
Click to expand...

I thought, "Gee, I don't understand my reluctance either. Maybe I'll try it one more time."
 
Well I'm glad my comments were of some use to someone! :)

Time and time again I run into people telling me that they follow my domination guide and it doesn't work for them. And then I ask them what they built from T60-T100 and have a long list of buildings :D

I'm delighted to meet someone who actually 'got' it, and even improved on it :)

There are a lot of players in these forums who are much better than I am, btw. It's just that I'm boring and like to play sloppy spammy Domination. Who knows, maybe I just like moving troops? :D
 
I'd ask you to think back to a certain game where moving troops took forever and the actual siege on the actual (juicy and packed with wonders) capital not so much :lol:
 
DanQuayle said:
Does anyone know why sometimes CS puppet the city they capture? Most of the time they raze it.
Click to expand...

Since capitals, holy cities and CSs cannot be razed, a CS has to keep those cities. Otherwise, a CS will keep a city, and not raze it, if they have sufficient happiness to handle the new city. Usually they do not have enough happiness, but sometimes they do.
 
DanQuayle said:
Question about achievement A

Doesn't clearing your continent imply taking all cities on your continent (ie eliminating XXX from the game unless she had the time to settle elsewhere)? At least, that is how I interpreted it. I am asking because rgduck clearly left XXX alive on his continent and claimed 3 points for achievement A.
Click to expand...

Yes, “clear the continent” is killing your immediate neighbor(s). Ideally, before anyone else meets them.
 
stormtrooper412 said:
I'd ask you to think back to a certain game where moving troops took forever and the actual siege on the actual (juicy and packed with wonders) capital not so much :lol:
Click to expand...

Yes, but I had to wait for another (slower) player, didn't I? :p
 
beetle said:
Yes, “clear the continent” is killing your immediate neighbor(s). Ideally, before anyone else meets them.
Click to expand...

Whoops! My bad. That'll teach me to be merciful.

Does any the nearby CS need to be taken too then?
 
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