[BTS] BOTM 55 - Final Spoiler, game submitted or abandoned

[sossos]

@evil_spock

Eliminating AIs seems better than vassalizing them to get a faster victory for this map. The troop movement between continents is just nightmare.

[Tachywaxon]

@sossos
Although that question is not directed at me, I cannot grasp what you said. If troop movements is a nightmare job, then vassalizing should be easier and avoid all the movements due to capturing every single cities.

Or you meant, the newly captured cities will produce many troops thanks to the immense pool of forests? But still no need to captured all cities. Better to spare units if they are willing to capitulate.
In Sury-man BOTM, one of the reason I lost conquest to Jovan Kukic is I killed all civs instead of vassalizing them with a feudalism slingshot. Lincoln was the most annoying because his last cities were far from his core empire.

[sossos]

Originally Posted by Tachywaxon

@sossos
Although that question is not directed at me, I cannot grasp what you said. If troop movements is a nightmare job, then vassalizing should be easier and avoid all the movements due to capturing every single cities.

Or you meant, the newly captured cities will produce many troops thanks to the immense pool of forests? But still no need to captured all cities. Better to spare units if they are willing to capitulate.
In Sury-man BOTM, one of the reason I lost conquest to Jovan Kukic is I killed all civs instead of vassalizing them with a feudalism slingshot. Lincoln was the most annoying because his last cities were far from his core empire.

You are right in most cases: vassalizing is faster than eliminating AI----to get a conq/dom victory. However, it may break if you can conquer all civ with axe/sword/HA, or it's easier to expand to 64% of land in one or two continents(which means dom is faster)
My question is: can the conquest victory be faster than the domination victory on this map? I tried the way of conquest, but I found that the turns for moving troops between continents delay the conquest victory. It greatly hampers the effective troop utilization.
This is why I said: elimanating AI on THIS MAP might be better. You only need to occupy two continents to reach the condition. If there were only 2 continents or if there were a canal in the middle babarian island, things would have been different.

[Tachywaxon]

Well, if Huayna Capac wasn't a prick after two of his main cities captured (but losses were not negligeable due to his early longbows), I would have got ~1050-1100 AD conquest. Possibly conquest takes longer here.

[sossos]

BTW, one of the funniest thing on this map----which I never did before in other games----is: culture bomb to make one babarian city to flip then to be occupied by babarians 1 turn later.

In this way, you can build warrior/HA/archer and upgrade it to mace/knight/crossbow in almost every 10 turns, though it's already close to the end of the game.

[Tachywaxon]

In fact, that was a weird aspect because by definition a conquered city normally doesn't flip back without the respective option on, but the barb city kept flipping back.

[sossos]

Originally Posted by Tachywaxon

In fact, that was a weird aspect because by definition a conquered city normally doesn't flip back without the respective option on, but the barb city kept flipping back.

not flip back in my case, just be conquered by the roaring babarians. You know how many babarian soldiers are on the island. There's only 1 long bowman to defend when the city flips to my side.

[srad]

After almost a two month civ absence I played this one and had a lot of fun.

Early scouting revealed a lot of coast so Great Lighthouse to power the economy was my first choice. Chopped also Stonehenge and Oracle (-> Aesthetics).

Hannibal was a reliable worker supplier and with the support of a bunch of HAs he got my first vassal.

And the barbs.... I flipped Despair five or six times until I realized that I could land some troops there during a revolt to hold the city. Four elite Longbows did a good job and Iron was mine.

Played towards an easy cheesy Conquest with Cuirassiers but the game decided to give me a Domination Victory in 1310AD (also met the Conquest condition that turn).

Thanks kcd for the nice scenario!

[lymond]

My game was an exercise in suck. Nice map. I played it totally wrong.

[jesusin]

Originally Posted by lymond

My game was an exercise in suck. Nice map. I played it totally wrong.

Maybe you'd like to share some of those mistakes, specially the strategic ones, so that other people can learn from your experience.

[lymond]

Originally Posted by jesusin

Maybe you'd like to share some of those mistakes, specially the strategic ones, so that other people can learn from your experience.

ha...I'd planned on coming back to post more as I usually do. Just my initial reaction to slogging through to the finish and submitting literally 1 minute before the deadline, then collapsing in exhaustion.

Disappointed in my 1800ad dom win, which is just ridiculous on this map and settings. The naval aspect posed a bit of a challenge and that is exactly where I failed.

It was clear very early when my 2 scout workboats surveyed the map that a nice Dom date was achievable here. I Oracled Feud while Hannibal contributed constantly to my Worker Relief Fund. I think I built maybe 1 worker if any the whole game. Stole at least 10 from him before wiping him out.

I really looked forward to some uber-LB stompage. However, my key failure was not thinking at all about the naval conundrum while conquering Hanny and settling the landmass. What it boils down to is that I settled only one and somewhat poor production coastal site on the eastern shore. Same in the north. Furthermore, I kept Carthaginan cities that should have been razed and resettled as coastal. The result was seriously nerfing and delaying galley whippage and, thusly, losing a good window to take out the Civs in the East.

It went downhill as well, as Cyrus just sat there, after capping Peter, building unit after unit. Bizarrely, he sent a lone galley up to Vicky and Dow'd her with absolutely no units. He kept all his units right next to me in Susa on the coast. I actually thought he was going to attack the Incans and waited for that window. Anyway, had to take the plunge and took heavy heavy losses. Winning was never and issue, but it was a slog. I would have been better of just settling in for a nice peaceful win here.

Anyway, lesson learned, that I should have learned ages ago, is you really need to think about the map in terms of what you are trying to achieve in victory.

[Jaybone]

buck up lymond, at least you didn't have your 2nd city razed by barbarians within 5 turns of settling it like I did. D'oh!

[Conquistador 63]

Originally Posted by lymond

Anyway, lesson learned, that I should have learned ages ago, is you really need to think about the map in terms of what you are trying to achieve in victory.

True. I also suffered from the lack of coastal cities to keep my war efforts rolling.

It doesn't hurt to decide on your desired victory condition early enough. I also got a Domination/Conquest victory in the 1500's when I could have gotten a UN victory in a few turns later - had teched up to Radio and had the GE to rush the UN. Better yet, should have cruised to a decent space finish date but got too bored to go for it this time.

What I also learned this time is to not attack 2 neighboring AI at the same time - they kept refusing to capitulate due to "we are afraid of your enemies", until I ceased fire with one of them, capped the other then redeclared/capped the last one.

It was annoying to see this excuse alternating from Vicky and Pacal. If I killed one unit from him, he would say that - then I went and killed one unit from her, she would say the same (her power rating got lower than his) but he would then say "we're doing fine on our own".

[kcd_swede]

Originally Posted by lymond

My game was an exercise in suck. Nice map. I played it totally wrong.

Ha ha... I feel your pain. I've been slamming my head against HOF Challenge Series game #9... a set of condition I myself suggested... and I am exerciseing in a lot of suck, atm.

[kcd_swede]

Originally Posted by Conquistador 63

It was annoying to see this excuse alternating from Vicky and Pacal. If I killed one unit from him, he would say that - then I went and killed one unit from her, she would say the same (her power rating got lower than his) but he would then say "we're doing fine on our own".

Yes, that's good advice for things to avoid in almost any game where you are trying to get capitulations.