Guess the UA/UB/UU of the civs

steveg700 said:
How are bonuses to wonder completion not too general? How are world wonders part of Maya's distinctive identity? OK, there's Chichen Itza. Whate else?

What's most remarkable about the Mayans wasn't the physical works they produced, but rather the way they took their folklore and religious beliefs and used them to fuel scientific research rather than put themselves at odds with it.
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Absolutely correct.... I just can't think of something different than what we already have with Babylon/Korea, etc. All stagnant turtle civs... if you make Mayan pure culture, it becomes another India.

You want something in between all that. Then again, you don't want some early tech bonus that doesn't multiply or is useless later in the game. So a beef of culture early on, a free Artist or whatever won't give you much later in the game. And Korea already has the extra science bonus for settled GP.

Like you said with Spain, and I agree completely they are the most fun, is that you need unique gameplay. Inca can provide that. I agree with the other poster... prioritize forests.... build the Steppe Pyramids and get a science and military boost. Make another UB a culture builder. Then make the UA something that allows for greater chance of GP generation or something. It is not as revolutionary as Spain but it's the only thing that comes to mind considering the game as is.
 
fat_tonle said:
Absolutely correct.... I just can't think of something different than what we already have with Babylon/Korea, etc. All stagnant turtle civs... if you make Mayan pure culture, it becomes another India.

You want something in between all that. Then again, you don't want some early tech bonus that doesn't multiply or is useless later in the game. So a beef of culture early on, a free Artist or whatever won't give you much later in the game. And Korea already has the extra science bonus for settled GP.

Like you said with Spain, and I agree completely they are the most fun, is that you need unique gameplay. Inca can provide that. I agree with the other poster... prioritize forests.... build the Steppe Pyramids and get a science and military boost. Make another UB a culture builder. Then make the UA something that allows for greater chance of GP generation or something. It is not as revolutionary as Spain but it's the only thing that comes to mind considering the game as is.
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We could still make the Maya unique.
It is very possible.
Maybe something that combines culture and science would be good, seeing as we don't exactly have a civ like that (unless you count Korea).
 
Birdjaguar said:
Most early calendars served as guides for agriculture rather than science. An agriculture bonus might fit very well for the Maya.
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Yeah, the Mayan Milpa Farming system would justify the agriculture bonus. Perhaps +2Food and +1Culture from the Jungles, or something in that direction. After all Milpa system was more than just farming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa
"The concept of milpa is a sociocultural construct rather than simply a system of agriculture. It involves complex interactions and relationships between farmers, as well as distinct personal relationships with both the crops and land. For example, it has been noted that "the making of milpa is the central, most sacred act, one which binds together the family, the community, the universe...[it] forms the core institution of Indian society in Mesoamerica and its religious and social importance often appear to exceed its nutritional and economic importance."
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Louis XXIV said:
I was referencing the article, which explicitly said cultural bonuses.
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I think they might get both. Food and Culture from the UA and perhaps Science releated UI, like: Step Pyramid. "+1 Culture. Requires Philosophy. Can improve hills, plains, grasslands, forests, marshes, or jungles. Astronomy adds +1 Science."
 
fat_tonle said:
Absolutely correct.... I just can't think of something different than what we already have with Babylon/Korea, etc. All stagnant turtle civs... if you make Mayan pure culture, it becomes another India.
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The ability I gave Maya specifically prevents it from playing like another city or culture civ. Instead, science and culture cross-pollenate.
 
steveg700 said:
The ability I gave Maya specifically prevents it from playing like another city or culture civ. Instead, science and culture cross-pollenate.
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Doesn't really add to game play.... just multiplies on top of your existing accomplishments.

They were a forest people, so maybe you prioritize that. But Iroquois depend on forests, and now Celts with this Faith bonus.

My only guess is that Maya could get a culture or science bonus from Jungle/Forest, at least giving you a focus as per the terrain you need when playing them. That is a game play change and not an add on or bonus, albeit other civs have that already.

I think we need more unique improvements. Polynesia has the best one in the game. Maybe a special farm or something, but not something unique as the Incans already have that. We don't have a science UI so here is an opportunity here. A science/military UI is good. 2+ range for archers in forests or battle combat bonus for melee units within two clicks. Whatever.

The whole adding science or culture on top of whatever doesn't seem very exciting though. What victory does that play toward? Science and culture is too OP IMO, although Faith could balance that out.

We don't really have a UA that deals with specialists. Maybe more bonuses for specialists or something. We could also have a UA that enhances GP abilities. Only Korea does that thus far. Those are game play changes.
 
fat_tonle said:
Doesn't really add to game play.... just multiplies on top of your existing accomplishments.

They were a forest people, so maybe you prioritize that. But Iroquois depend on forests, and now Celts with this Faith bonus.

My only guess is that Maya could get a culture or science bonus from Jungle/Forest, at least giving you a focus as per the terrain you need when playing them. That is a game play change and not an add on or bonus, albeit other civs have that already.

I think we need more unique improvements. Polynesia has the best one in the game. Maybe a special farm or something, but not something unique as the Incans already have that. We don't have a science UI so here is an opportunity here. A science/military UI is good. 2+ range for archers in forests or battle combat bonus for melee units within two clicks. Whatever.

The whole adding science or culture on top of whatever doesn't seem very exciting though. What victory does that play toward? Science and culture is too OP IMO, although Faith could balance that out.

We don't really have a UA that deals with specialists. Maybe more bonuses for specialists or something. We could also have a UA that enhances GP abilities. Only Korea does that thus far. Those are game play changes.
Click to expand...

How about
UI.. Step Pyramid: in Jungle or Forest
-1 food, +1 culture +1 Science... unlocked with Calendar

Or a cultural one similar to the Babylonians science one
 
Krikkitone said:
How about
UI.. Step Pyramid: in Jungle or Forest
-1 food, +1 culture +1 Science... unlocked with Calendar

Or a cultural one similar to the Babylonians science one
Click to expand...

I never viewed Mayan as a great artist type civ with all these great works and engineering feats. I think a good UI and UB would suffice in that department.

Something with extra artists is something I would give to a Renaissance civ like France. Their existing one is pretty unimaginative but culture driven nonetheless.

Babylon didn't exactly build space ships I get that, but the UA does give them an early leg up on ancient techs. Makes sense.

I don't think there is a civ worthy of extra artists. The first civilization giving us those major culture/engineering feats at least in popular culture was Egypt, and their UA reflects that.

I think the Steppe Pyramid UI is enough as far as game play. The UA would just be some bonus or multiplier. I just prefer it adds something in a way we already haven't seen.
 
My idea for the Mayans:

UA: Mayapan league- allied city states generate faith, the idea behind this is that historically the Mayans functioned based on city state alliances, and were ruled by a theocracy, keep a network of CS and get great prophets.

Unique Improvement: Cenote shrine: improvement for jungle tile that generate faith, also functions as oasis.
Mayans build many of their cities around cenotes, because they were sources of fresh water, AND also sacred ,considered entrances to the underworld. Mayans should be able to thrive like no other on the jungle.

UU: Great priest a great general that generates faith for every kill nearby. That way you also get a small incentive incentive to go to war and keep up the religous expansion.

Anyway, the idea with the Mayans would be to create a tall tropical religious powerhouse, by means of cenotes , CS, and Great Priests. Imagine playing Maya, and being happy for the first time for spawning in the middle of one of those infinte jungles.

Oh and by the way, I hope they change the name of Chichen Itza wonder now, Chichen Itza its the city the Temple of Kukulcan is built on. Am I supposed to build Chichen Itza in Chichen Itza?
 
ehecatzin said:
My idea for the Mayans:

UA: Mayapan league- allied city states generate faith, the idea behind this is that historically the Mayans functioned based on city state alliances, and were ruled by a theocracy, keep a network of CS and get great prophets.

Unique Improvement: Cenote shrine: improvement for jungle tile that generate faith, also functions as oasis.
Mayans build many of their cities around cenotes, because they were sources of fresh water, AND also sacred ,considered entrances to the underworld. Mayans should be able to thrive like no other on the jungle.

UU: Great priest a great general that generates faith for every kill nearby. That way you also get a small incentive incentive to go to war and keep up the religous expansion.

Anyway, the idea with the Mayans would be to create a tall tropical religious powerhouse, by means of cenotes , CS, and Great Priests. Imagine playing Maya, and being happy for the first time for spawning in the middle of one of those infinte jungles.
Click to expand...

Good ideas, like 'em :)
Not sure how the Faith system will work in G&K, but your ideas for the Maya are well reasoned. Would be a fun Civ to play with.


ehecatzin said:
Oh and by the way, I hope they change the name of Chichen Itza wonder now, Chichen Itza its the city the Temple of Kukulcan is built on. Am I supposed to build Chichen Itza in Chichen Itza?
Click to expand...


Good point! Hopefully they will consider this and the "updated" city list. As a name Chichen Itza is much better known, but in my opinion, being historically correct should be more important. Then the people would learn :)

The Maya name "Chichen Itza" means "At the mouth of the well of the Itza." This derives from chi', meaning "mouth" or "edge", and ch'en or ch'e'en, meaning "well." Itzá is the name of an ethnic-lineage group that gained political and economic dominance of the northern peninsula. One possible translation for Itza is "wizard (or enchantment) of the water."

Dominating the North Platform of Chichen Itza is the Temple of Kukulkan (a Maya feathered serpent deity similar to the Aztec Quetzalcoatl), usually referred to as El Castillo ("the castle").

On the Spring and Autumn equinoxes, in the late afternoon, the northwest corner of the pyramid casts a series of triangular shadows against the western balustrade on the north side that evokes the appearance of a serpent wriggling down the staircase. Some have suggested the effect was an intentional design by the Maya builders to represent the feathered-serpent god Kukulcan.
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MARDUK80 said:
Good ideas, like 'em :)
Not sure how the Faith system will work in G&K, but your ideas for the Maya are well reasoned. Would be a fun Civ to play with.





Good point! Hopefully they will consider this and the "updated" city list. As a name Chichen Itza is much better known, but in my opinion, being historically correct should be more important. Then the people would learn :)
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Kukulkan is basically Quetzalcoatl.

Just like my name Gucumatz, is basically Kukulcan.

Just like Jupiter is basically Zeus (with a select few changes). They are the same god in all practicality.

========

Anyways, I really like Louis's idea.
 
Anyways, instead of perhaps an ancient unit for the Maya, we could always go with a wildcard with the Cruzobs. In the northern Maya state in the late 1800s these followers of the old ways fought primarily in the name of the old religious ways and perhaps could provide a faith bonus.

Would be an interesting surprise to give a faith based early gunpowder unit to the Maya. Crazier things have happened (like having a gunpowder unit for Ethiopia in Civ 4)
 
ShahJahanII said:
We could still make the Maya unique.
It is very possible.
Maybe something that combines culture and science would be good, seeing as we don't exactly have a civ like that (unless you count Korea).
Click to expand...

Why not count Korea...thats exactly their niche. I think religion/science is more appropriate for Maya.
 
It will be ability to end the game at Year 2012.

What else did you think it would be? :lol:
 
I know Kukulcan is Quetzalcoatl, but the temple we know as temple of Quetzalcoatl is located in Teotihuacan.

Anyway you rise a valid point, the Mayans could very well get a riflemen faith based unit, perhaps with guerilla bonus? After all the Mayan population fought for decades in the caste war.
 
I personally think that Mayan UA will be free Great Prophet at Calendar + some sort of bonus with city-states.
 
based on the new screenshot, I'm guessing the Dutch UI (built on a marsh) gives you a luxury resource to trade (tulips). That way, you can mimic the tulip bubble bursting with the fact that it's effects are greatly reduced once every other civ has that resource for however many turns you sold it for.

At least I can hope.
 
I think it's a tile improvement, not a luxury.
Although I must admit, the idea of a tulip luxury sounds interesting.
But I think a tile improvement with extra food (and gold?) seems the most logical thing.
 
oh man, a unique tulip luxury would be friggin cool. extra gold seems more likely though, unfortunately.
 
moysturfurmer said:
based on the new screenshot, I'm guessing the Dutch UI (built on a marsh) gives you a luxury resource to trade (tulips). That way, you can mimic the tulip bubble bursting with the fact that it's effects are greatly reduced once every other civ has that resource for however many turns you sold it for.

At least I can hope.
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That would be... very fun but also very odd...

I think it's a UI for marshes (and maybe lakes): the Polder. Why? There is a dike and windmill (drainage), so it certainly is a Polder graphicly. They probably added the tullips just for the authentic look.
 
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