Indonesia discussion

There could be a worldgen time separation of continents that assigns one or more close landmasses to a single continent. Alternatively, coast tiles only wouldn't count as "ocean" for separation purposes.

The problem with that is that the standard map most of the time contains oly 2 continents by those terms. And there's also a chance that both continents in it can be connected by shallow water. Potentially that means you can get a game where you can only get 1 of the resources or maybe even none.

Such a narrow definition of their UA would make them extremely restricted by map type and unbalanced on the very map type that all the civs are generally balanced against.

I will eat take up hat eating if it turns out they define continents like you suggest.
 
The Q&A muddies the issue rather than clarifying it. The Indonesian ability as we've already seen it explicitly says that the first three cities "founded on continents other than where Indonesia started" get the resources. This would mean that Jakarta doesn't get a unique resource, but that the three cities that do can be on the same continent as each other, but not as Jakarta. The Q&A says it's the first three cities on any continent where it hasn't already founded one, which may or may not imply Jakarta gets one, and means you need three separate continents (or four, if Jakarta doesn't count) to get all the resources. Either the answer in the Q&A is worded badly, or they decided after releasing the Indonesia reveal that the ability was OP and decided to scale it back.

Or we misinterpreted "continents." We took it to mean "[a] continent[] different from the capital." They wrote it as "continents (plural) different from the capital" and it looks like they meant "continents (plural) different from the capital [and each other]." It looks like we all missed the S the first time through.
 
I am not sure where people are getting this...the Q&A said the following

Could you elaborate on Indonesia's ability?

The first three times Indonesia founds a city on a brand new continent(where it hasn’t yet founded a city) it gets two copies of a special resource: Nutmeg, Cloves, or Pepper. This resource cannot be razed or destroyed. Indonesia has the option to trade any of these resources it wishes.

This clearly implies to me that Jakarta doesn't get one, but the next 3 cities that are built on 3 UNIQUE continents will each get the resources.
 
I read that to mean that each new city needs to be on a new continent. So you need to settle four different continents to get the full benefit.

That said, recall that the game actually divides continents in a manner that does not always tie to separation by bodies of water. If you use the map editor, you will notice that things like forest tiles vary based on continents, and often change from one to another along a line in the middle of a single landmass. Think Europe vs. Asia. So it may be possible to settle cities on the same landmass which are different continents. Conversely, an island off the coast of a larger landmass may be the same continent as the landmass.

Look at the trees.
 
Then Indonesia will be hindered on any map other than small continents/archipelago.
 
@dowd001: We don't know yet whether their first city counts - a literal interpretation says it does, as it is founded on a continent where Indonesia hasn't founded any cities yet.
 
Perhaps they should just change the wording in the UA from "continents" to "landmasses" to clear up any cunfusion. But of course, somebody somewhere will get confused by that too . . .
 
Or they could define the meaning for "continent" somewhere.
 
Or we misinterpreted "continents." We took it to mean "[a] continent[] different from the capital." They wrote it as "continents (plural) different from the capital" and it looks like they meant "continents (plural) different from the capital [and each other]." It looks like we all missed the S the first time through.

It's the "and each other" bit that makes the difference. It wasn't there before, and now they're saying it is. Whether that's because they've changed it since the reveal, they didn't word it carefully enough in the UA text, or they made a mistake in the Q&A, the result is the same; we have a discrepancy between sources that makes the true details of the UA ambiguous.
 
Or they could define the meaning for "continent" somewhere.

They already did

A continent is an island that does not share any tiles with any other "islands"

Or... other continent is a continent which does not share a tile with the initial continent

This rule is used in two instances, Conquistador (cannot found cities on the "old world" continent of your nation (where the Capital is placed) and City Founding (you may found a city within TWO tiles of other cities if it's placed on the other continent).
 
I mean they should define it in-game! I don't recall there being any explanation in Civilopedia or any other in-game source for what constitutes a "continent".
 
Probably because they expect you to know what a continent usually is.

Emphasis mine - "continent" doesn't usually mean the same thing it does in Civ V, which is all the more reason for them to disambiguate the term further.
 
@dowd001: We don't know yet whether their first city counts - a literal interpretation says it does, as it is founded on a continent where Indonesia hasn't founded any cities yet.

There is no reasonable way to read her response to mean that the first city founded on the same continent as the capital would get a new resource. Besides, a civ getting two free resources that no one else has on their second city that does not require a worker or workboat to benefit from is game breaking.
 
dowd001, you got it wrong: I don't mean the first city founded on the same continent as the capital, I mean literally the FIRST city - the capital itself. Literally interpreted, one would receive the first luxury batch from the capital, and the other two from the next two landmasses.
 
There is no reasonable way to read her response to mean that the first city founded on the same continent as the capital would get a new resource. Besides, a civ getting two free resources that no one else has on their second city that does not require a worker or workboat to benefit from is game breaking.

But the capital itself could be considered a city on a continent in which Indonesia has not yet founded a city.

Anyway, why would an extra luxury be game breaking? You can't trade them for a lump sum of gold without a DoF, so all you're really going to get is some extra happiness. That doesn't sound game breaking to me.
 
dowd001, you got it wrong: I don't mean the first city founded on the same continent as the capital, I mean literally the FIRST city - the capital itself. Literally interpreted, one would receive the first luxury batch from the capital, and the other two from the next two landmasses.

The UA description as reported by reviewers reads as follows:

"The first 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (and can never be razed)"

Maybe, you could walk your initial settler to a continent other than where it was placed on turn 0, but I think reading the Q&A together with the UA description is pretty clear. Capital does not get it, next three cities on separate continents for a total of four continents gets them.

That said, I am taking back my comment on the graphic descriptions of continents. It may help identify different continents, but two continents can use the same graphic for trees if the Spanish Conquistador is any guide.
 
dowd001, that description is invalid as it conflicts with what was revealed in the latest Q&A:

The first three times Indonesia founds a city on a brand new continent(where it hasn’t yet founded a city) it gets two copies of a special resource: Nutmeg, Cloves, or Pepper. This resource cannot be razed or destroyed. Indonesia has the option to trade any of these resources it wishes.

The first city meets the criterion of being founded on a brand new continent.
 
I do not believe that you should read the Q&A description as if it supersedes the in-game one but rather to interpret it as a complementary description.

The in-game descriptions says first you get the resources in 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia starts.

The Q&A states that you get them in cities founded on continents where you don't yet have cities.

Taken together, you see that the capital does not get the unique luxuries. However an additional 3 cities which are founded on continents where you have not built a city yet will get the unique luxuries.

What this leaves unknown to me is:

a) Whether the unique resources are laid on the cities' tiles or in tiles around the city tile

b) to what extent of separateness do these landmasses have to exhibit in order for the UA to work. IIRC, the Conquistador has a similar restriction but having a mountain range cutoff part of the landmass is sufficient to consider it a different continent.
 
I do not believe that you should read the Q&A description as if it supersedes the in-game one but rather to interpret it as a complementary description.

The in-game descriptions says first you get the resources in 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia starts.

The Q&A states that you get them in cities founded on continents where you don't yet have cities.

Taken together, you see that the capital does not get the unique luxuries. However an additional 3 cities which are founded on continents where you have not built a city yet will get the unique luxuries.

What this leaves unknown to me is:

a) Whether the unique resources are laid on the cities' tiles or in tiles around the city tile

b) to what extent of separateness do these landmasses have to exhibit in order for the UA to work. IIRC, the Conquistador has a similar restriction but having a mountain range cutoff part of the landmass is sufficient to consider it a different continent.

a) seeing as it's unrazable it's going to very likely work the same wasy as Porcelain and Jewelery, i.e be on TOP of the city tile (or underneath)

b) probably a diffrent landmass that doesn't connect to the toher one.
 
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