Our World: Civilizations of the Modern Age Design Discussion

The teaching of algebra, physics, and physical education effectively ended in Turkmenistan.

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So we like him now, then?

Oh my god, guys, JFD is in my actual thread!

Arkasy or ýadygärlik mean monument in Turkmen AFAIK which is a little less specific than 'Gold Statue' since not all of the ridiculous monuments in Ashgabat are gold. In terms of fitting with the new UA, how about this?

UB: Arkasy (Replaces Zoo)
The Arkasy is more expensive to maintain than the Zoo it replaces, but has a slot for a Great Work of Writing which increases the length of We Love the King Day in this city by 50% when filled. Furthermore, cities with an Arkasy increase the generation of Cultural Great People in the capital during We Love the King Day.

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Probably too many bonuses here but I wanted to tie it all to the UA. I like the Basmachi, but I feel like the 'May Kill Turkmen units' is super abusable since if it were me I'd just park a Basmachi next to a random city and just train a scout every 5 turns for a constant WLTKD in the Capital. How about this?

UU: Basmachi (Replaces Rifleman)
When trained before the Modern Era, the Basmachi triggers a We Love the King Day in the city in which it was trained. The Basmachi never obsoletes, however upon entering the Modern Era, all Basmachi receive the unique promotion 'Ceremonial Guard' which give the Masmachi a 50% combat strength penalty and the ability to generate +1 happiness and +2 culture when stationed in a city for every level gained by the Basmachi. This promotion is lost on upgrade.

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Again my Clutterphobia is getting the better of me here, feel it could be too many bonuses, but I'm just putting the idea out there and I actually do quite like it even if its a bit much.

I love both of these adaptations. Very synergetic. I don't think that they have too many bonii. The descriptions are wordy but that's because the effects are complex, and that's okay. Text can always be polished. I really like these effects and I would like to use them pending discussion.

Ah good, I was worried they'd be too cluttered but you're right, the effects do work with the UA in my not-so-humble opinion. Anyway, what does everyone else think of them? I was very active in crapping all over everyone else's suggestions and would feel bad about it unless I got a similar treatment from the squad

I'm not fond of moving away from my original focus, tbh. I wanted to make a Civ that emphasises the capital above everything else and puts your other cities at a disadvantage - and still make it fun to play. Ashgabat is a terrifying nightmare playground of a man gone totally mad, to the detriment of everywhere else in the country (one shudders to think at how much money that could have gone to schools, infrastructure, &c was frittered away on overgrown tat), and that's the feeling I wanted to evoke with this Civ - that you are Niyazov, you have named January after your mum, you have declared yoghurt unconstitutional, and you are loving every minute of it. That's why I was all about redistributing resources to the capital, and that's why I'm sticking by my UB and UU.

Also the Basmachi was inspired by a movement based out of that part of the world and predates Niyazov by, like, several decades, so having a presidential guard promotion seems a little weird for them, Urdnot. JSYK. =]

Thing is, the general consensus is that punitive design, while interesting, is just not how things are done in civ. No other civ gets that kind of weird trade off because UAs are meant to simply be a bonus, even in civs which were chronically mismanaged and ultimately failures, the UA is just a bonus. Its how its always been done and even if we were to deviate from this a little bit, I still think having a punitive UA, UB and UU is way too much.

Also, my Basmachi design has nothing to do with presidential guards... JSYK

Hey folks don't get tooooooooo sassy...

And Scape, while I do like your focus, I am extremely weary of negative/punitive design. It could easily lead to an un-fun outcome. I do think that yours is the best design that i have seen that incorporates negative elements.

Ra..rifleman? Zoo?! Modern?!
Quite frankly, i get the feeling those won't go in an industrial era Turkmenistan...
(Also, why do you act like the idea giving police follow the unwritten rules of civ design all the time Urdnot? )
Scapegrace's design has a unique ability. Wasn't that the point?

While you do have a lot of interesting points, Urdnot, I was trying to get a coherent design that introduced elements everywhere that were negative choices. Upon further review, it seems like this was lost a bit. How about this:-

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UB: Arkasy (replaces Monument)
+1 Culture, +1 Production. The Capital generates +1 Culture and +1 Production for each Arkasy in the empire. Generates +2 Culture and +1 Global Happiness after you choose an Ideology, and +1 additional Local Happiness for each Level 3 Tenet in that Ideology you select.
UU: Basmachi (replaces Landship)
Requires Horses instead of Oil and is rather weaker than the Landship it replaces (50 vs. 60). However, it is much cheaper, unlocks at Radio rather than Combustion, and receives a unique promotion, "White Sun of the Desert", that allows it to gain Experience from attacking Turkmen units, and a +15% Combat Bonus while attacking for each Turkmen unit it destroys. Upgrades to Tank as normal and retains the WSotD combat bonuses.

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This is, I think, a little more positive. In this version, the Basmachi gains experience from attacking your own units rather than killing them outright, though if you have something you don't need (say, from a militaristic City-State) you can just feed it to your screaming nationalist horsemen and be on your merry way. Hopefully this is a bit more of a coherent design. =]

Natan35 said:

Ra..rifleman? Zoo?! Modern?!
Quite frankly, i get the feeling those won't go in an industrial era Turkmenistan...

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I have no idea what the objection is here.

Natan35 said:

(Also, why do you act like the idea giving police follow the unwritten rules of civ design all the time Urdnot? )
Scapegrace's design has a unique ability. Wasn't that the point?

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I think this is really unfair - if my attempts to help people with their designs get me labelled 'Idea giving police' I don't think I'll bother next time... Either way, I like sticking to the formula already established because its the way things are done by every other mod team and firaxis. If you want to be a special snowflake thats fine but I just don't think its conducive to good design - anyone can make something unique if you slap 7 bonuses on it that use new mechanics and dont stick to anything firaxis has ever laid down, its easy. The whole fun of modding is creating something unique within the framework of the game - I almost like to see as designing 'unofficial DLC', the kind of stuff firaxis would actually want in the game. Furthermore, mods that stick to the original design brief are usually a lot more popular than mods which just do their own thing.

Scapegrace, perhaps I'm missing something, because I have no idea how to attack my own units.

Scapegrace said:

UB: Arkasy (replaces Monument)
+1 Culture, +1 Production. The Capital generates +1 Culture and +1 Production for each Arkasy in the empire. Generates +2 Culture and +1 Global Happiness after you choose an Ideology, and +1 additional Local Happiness for each Level 3 Tenet in that Ideology you select.

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That looks a little bit busy, why not simply?

UB: Arkasy (replaces Monument)
+1 Culture, +1 Production. The Capital generates +1 Culture and +1 Production for each Arkasy in the empire.

I believe that should make a good Monument Replacement already (just compare with the Mayan Pyramid or the Ethiopian Stele) without making it too complex.

I agree. No need to go crazy here.

Scapegrace, I think you've effectively done a good job about creating a design that incorporates negative elements. However, I don't know how well these things will code, especially the attacking friendly units. I am interested in the idea of a building contributing yields to the capital only. Maybe the UB provides no yields, or like +1 culture, but adds Cultural GP points to the Capital?

Natan, come on man. First of all, my definition of modern is 20th Century and there are many other definitions, including the game's. Second, uniques don't necessarily need to match with the exact history, because that would not be fun.

As a German, the Stasi for the GDR should be something that actually has to do with the Staatssicherheit.
It was and is mostly known for its terror against the own people.
I'd give it a boost against influence, reduced purchase costs for military, bonus for anarchy suppression in the city or something like that.
Also, a boost on productivity with the death of people in the city would work (moar Lua!)

What do you think?

Belz.

I tried to represent the idea of terror against your own people via the bonus to production for cities with a spy in them, which is part of the UA. While that is not a direct reference, I think it is a good way to do it, especially as a production-focused civ. It is also more tasteful. Reduced purchase for military is the key to Venezuela, so I don't want to do that. Anarchy supression would be good but anarchy rarely happens in Civ 5, only with ideology change really...and the Stasi wasn't much help there, right? Influence slowing would be a good choice, but it's not too exciting for the player in my opinion.

Alganon said:

Political yes, but no one of my family or friends and their parents have a bad opinion about the GDR. It wasnt the best government but, I would say the best in the Eastern bloc

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You actually know they indoctrinated their people and opressed them every freaking day, don't you?
The GDR was nothing more than a european North Korea. All along with dictatorship, terror and death when trying to escape.

It's the same with every old man you ask about the Hitlerjugend. Nobody participated. And everybody of course hated Hitler. Yeah, sure. Neglect is a cool thing. :/

SuperWaffle247 said:

I tried to represent the idea of terror against your own people via the bonus to production for cities with a spy in them, which is part of the UA. While that is not a direct reference, I think it is a good way to do it, especially as a production-focused civ. It is also more tasteful. Reduced purchase for military is the key to Venezuela, so I don't want to do that. Anarchy supression would be good but anarchy rarely happens in Civ 5, only with ideology change really...and the Stasi wasn't much help there, right? Influence slowing would be a good choice, but it's not too exciting for the player in my opinion.

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Oh yeah, I now see your UA. Sorry for overlooking it!
I actually didn't mean cIV style anatchy, I just lost the english term for the anarchy in conquered cities... :/

No worries! I am actually really happy with the East Germany design, apart from the Sportler discussion we had a few pages back.