Star of the Shogun: Realpolitik

Dem Taqat said:
Name me one instance in this entire Game where a less sane Person has been appointed to Shogun. :p
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No comment here. :rolleyes:
Dem Taqat said:
It is actually quite easy for a less-sane person to be removed from the position of Shogun, as long as we assume that everyone does what is best for the country, since having a less-sane person in charge is obviously not what is best for the country, therefore it is assumed that everybody will be working against them.
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Assuming that everybody does the best for the country. Many people would do the best for themselves (which, in this case, would be the best for the country). Anyway, You can't know if somebody will be a good ruler until he is in power. :p

Dem Taqat said:
And, to be honest, from what I can see of things right now, no less-sane person actually has a chance of becoming Shogun, because everyone else agrees they are less sane, and thus will not vote for them.
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That's true in the case of christos and possibly others, but less obvious ones can hide their insanity until they're on the top. And if he managed to get a bunch of fanatical supporters around him, we would be doomed.
 
That's why he needs to be careful, we know that and will watch out for it. He's not exactly secretive.
 
JoanK said:
Assuming that everybody does the best for the country. Many people would do the best for themselves (which, in this case, would be the best for the country). Anyway, You can't know if somebody will be a good ruler until he is in power. :p
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You can't know they will be a good ruler, but what you see of them beforehand can indicate this. If a coalition is a complete shambles, it is a fair guess that their leader isn't suited to their responsibility. Also; several of the older RP players have been in power in other games, so people can find indications of how they do there before they come to power here.

And yes, it is a big asssumption that everyone will do what is best for the nation, but, in my experiance, there are usually enough people doing this that they can acomplish what is neccesary.

JoanK said:
That's true in the case of christos and possibly others, but less obvious ones can hide their insanity until they're on the top. And if he managed to get a bunch of fanatical supporters around him, we would be doomed.
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If they can hide their insanity until they get to the top, whilst still doing enough political manouvering to get to the top, it's a fair guess they aren't that insane. And no, because that would be a situation in which an AR would be an acceptable response. There is also the problem of them actually getting to the top, since the ASP have proven already just how hard it is even with vast numbers of players supporting them. And the NPC votes will only become bigger over time.

DT
Disagreeing :undecide:
 
Well, I mean, they aren't insane but have evil intention, that's it.
 
Why are we even worrying about the Shogunate? Have we even start to discuss the outside world, domestic policy, foreign policy, future development? IMPORTANT things? The worrying about the Shogunate is nothing more but paranoid drivel meant to distract from actual important discussion.
 
Sonereal said:
Why are we even worrying about the Shogunate? Have we even start to discuss the outside world, domestic policy, foreign policy, future development? IMPORTANT things? The worrying about the Shogunate is nothing more but paranoid drivel meant to distract from actual important discussion.
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Oh we stopped discussing that as soon as the first plan was sent. :p Probably because we agreed on a lot of stuff, except for the stuff that was ideological. I tried arguing about the settler we have now, but that kinda fell by the wayside when all this came up.

DT
 
I'm talking about the long-term planning, not the short-term planning of build orders. Where we going to be two, three administrations down the line if we're not thinking about the future now?
 
Have we ever done that in an RP? :p

DT
 
The problem with long-term planning is that other nations seem to act randomly (so we can be DoWed any moment and any plan should be changed) and that the different nature of the parties can lead to constantly changed plans.
 
RP1 was slightly different, in that our expansion had to be planned ahead of time, because there was no area we could settle easily without planning it. Other than that, I never saw much long term planning.

DT
 
Therefore we should have a general plan as opposed to a specific plan but anything is better than argument over laws which are impossible to enforce meaningfully.
 
We've got Napoleon as our neighbour. If we don't expand quickly we'll soon find ourselves unable to do it by any means other than the sword.

Napoleon is massively expansionist in CiV. Not quite Joao in 4 bad but he's really aggressive about it.
 
Doesn't that build the case for crippling France sooner, rather than later? It's clear that we're going to be dealing with a bunch of random DOWs sooner or later so why not start a war on our terms? The only thing we would need to do is break down the door, destroy their improvements, and maybe take a few and raze a few cities. In CivV, the AI is lolworthy is trying to recover from things like that and we can watch as the leftovers are ripped to pieces by other civilizations.

That idea is a lot more appealing than trying to fight a later war with France.
 
Diplomatic penalties for starting a war and the fact that the AI is hilariously bad tactically mean it's a better plan to wait for them to DOW on us and then counter-attack.
 
That's better tactically but the amount of diplomatic penalties in the game already outweigh the number of bonuses. While a counterattack is better tactically speaking, it means having to wait until France throws the first blow and that could take a random amount of time.

If we wait
-Expansion war with France
-France grows more powerful
-Everyone else grows more powerful
-More expensive war

If we do it sooner
-No expansion war with France
-Cripple our nearest rival
-Gain a few cities
-Strategically better off

After all, if this game goes on for a meaningful amount of time, we're going to have to fight all the AIs eventually.
 
Captain Fargle said:
Hence why you should join me and my long-term plan for making us all filthy rich.
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I tried. You said no.

Dem Taqat said:
RP1 was slightly different, in that our expansion had to be planned ahead of time, because there was no area we could settle easily without planning it. Other than that, I never saw much long term planning.

DT
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Yeah the only long term planning we had there was deciding where to settle. No other long term planning happened unless Whosit was in office, and that happened so:

Whosit: These are our long term plans. Trust me.

Mostly everybody: *Nod* Yes great whosit.

Arya: Hey! Those plans aren't perfect! Lets discuss them!

Whosit: Terrorist! Kill him!
 
arya126 said:
Yeah the only long term planning we had there was deciding where to settle. No other long term planning happened unless Whosit was in office, and that happened so:

Whosit: These are our long term plans. Trust me.

Mostly everybody: *Nod* Yes great whosit.

Arya: Hey! Those plans aren't perfect! Lets discuss them!

Whosit: Terrorist! Kill him!
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More like:

Whosit: These are our long term plans. Trust me. *Shows everybody 90% good plans*

Mostly everybody: *Nod* Yes great whosit.

Arya: Hey! Those plans aren't perfect! Lets discuss them! *proffers even worse plans*

Whosit: No, I don't think we need those. Besides, it's about time for the turnset.

Arya: How about I blow up our Iron Mine if you don't adopt my suggestions?

Mostly everybody: Not the Iron Mine! Kill the terrorist! *Torches and pitchforks*

-Daimyo Nukeknockout
 
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