Info on Next Patch

Not only does an AI and diplo patch make sense because it's the worst part of civ5, but also because other bad aspects are moddable and this 2 aren't.

Not only that, but it's really hard to pinpoint what other parts of the game need some attention when the AI isn't using everything properly. I certainly can't blame my table saw for not being able to cut wood when I am just standing above it trying to throw pieces of wood through the spinning blade. It's not until I use it properly that I can determine if the blade is dull or not.

:)
 
Not only does an AI and diplo patch make sense because it's the worst part of civ5, but also because other bad aspects are moddable and this 2 aren't.

I already use mods that bring back the statistics windows, improve resource usefulness, increase tech time and decrease build time, make buildings more useful, and such things. But it seems without sdk it's not possible to revamp diplomacy and AI. So focusing on this 2 aspects was the best idea.

absolutely :)

As I always say, I have hope in civ5,
I believe it was forced to be released in a bad shape, and now it is on the way to be "finalized"...

And then it's modding time for "us" :)
 
I hope that the MP AI is included in this patch so it actually does something.

Surely it cant be that hard to make the MP AI ~ SP AI
 
I hope that the MP AI is included in this patch so it actually does something.

Surely it cant be that hard to make the MP AI ~ SP AI

If I understand well, Greg said that this will be single player patch
(mostly? exclusively?)
 
Reading through the thread some other people have asked the same thing and he says he will find out

/me crosses his fingers
 
Realistically and not optimistically speaking, which are the 3-4 most demanded fixes you would pretend to be included in the next patch ? ( not necessarily AI diplo rleated of course )

1) Naval units movement and war AI management of them
2 ) Airplane units movement and war AI management of them
3 ) Nuke units usage and movements and AI management of them
4 ) AI diplomacies fixes above listed by other forumers
 
which are the 3-4 most demanded fixes you would pretend to be included in the next patch ?

There have been already posts asking for the top fix requests, and the top 2 were by far AI and diplomacy. So looks like they are hearing us :goodjob:
 
I'm hopeful for Diplomacy. I would want two things. I had a few more, but I decided to Keep it Simple, so...

1. A better balance between peaceful cooperation and warfare. If you work with them for years and they've gained from you, then that should outweigh any nearby cities.

2. Most importantly, Better Documentation. Honestly, I don't care specifically what changes are made as long as we have some idea of what our actions will do. It doesn't have to be specific to the point of exact numbers (I actually think any change in relationship modifiers should have a random element, like they do with leader personalities), but people shouldn't also be forced to act blindly either. A general tool tip that says "this will help in this area" would be nice.
 
2. Most importantly, Better Documentation. Honestly, I don't care specifically what changes are made as long as we have some idea of what our actions will do. It doesn't have to be specific to the point of exact numbers (I actually think any change in relationship modifiers should have a random element, like they do with leader personalities), but people shouldn't also be forced to act blindly either. A general tool tip that says "this will help in this area" would be nice.

Good point, as an example, at the moment when someone ask me for resources i have 2 options when i say no, "sorry this has caused our relations to drop" and "get over it".

My guess is that "get over it" is my chance to make the AI more angry so it declares war on me, that would be great if i did'nt get a "warmonger" reputation for fighting defensive wars, but at the moment i don't know if that is indeed the case or if i get a warmonger reputation for fighting a defensive war anyway, so the "sorry" and "get over it" options are quite unclear.

If you get no reputation penalty for fighting a defensive war then those two options make perfect sense, you can egg the AI into declaring war on you, if however you get a penalty anyway then the options are pointless, i have no way of knowing at the moment.
 
I'm hopeful for Diplomacy. I would want two things. I had a few more, but I decided to Keep it Simple, so...

1. A better balance between peaceful cooperation and warfare. If you work with them for years and they've gained from you, then that should outweigh any nearby cities.

So long as they don't cripple the ability of the AI Civs to pursue domination victory. An AI Civ going for a domination win has to be able to attack you at some point, no matter how long you might have been friends before.

In the real world, if you live next to an aggressively expansionist neighbour with designs on world conquest, you better be prepared to defend yourself. Just because he's trading with you now doesn't mean he's really a nice guy under that murderous genocidal exterior.
 
So long as they don't cripple the ability of the AI Civs to pursue domination victory. An AI Civ going for a domination win has to be able to attack you at some point, no matter how long you might have been friends before.

In the real world, if you live next to an aggressively expansionist neighbour with designs on world conquest, you better be prepared to defend yourself. Just because he's trading with you now doesn't mean he's really a nice guy under that murderous genocidal exterior.

I don't think it would matter much if the AI wouldn't pursue domination win at all. What are realistic changes to lost to domination winning AI anyway?
 
So long as they don't cripple the ability of the AI Civs to pursue domination victory. An AI Civ going for a domination win has to be able to attack you at some point, no matter how long you might have been friends before.

In the real world, if you live next to an aggressively expansionist neighbour with designs on world conquest, you better be prepared to defend yourself. Just because he's trading with you now doesn't mean he's really a nice guy under that murderous genocidal exterior.

My original post before I paired it down for length addressed the second half. Basically, something to do with more clearly defined spheres of influence, so hostility isn't automatically generated by touching borders, but by intrusion into your sphere. But I do think hostility for other reasons (such as interference with city-state relationships or breaking a Pact of Secrecy) should exist. I'm also not opposed to simple warmongering from aggressive leaders. I just think natural conflict over borders should not lead to war when neither side did anything wrong.

As for impairing domination victory. I'm fine with a Civ who is clearly on the path towards victory being willing to attack you. That being said, I think the other victory conditions should be favored more heavily and even Civs with large empires should only attack you to win the game if Space Ship or Diplomatic victories are not viable options.
 
An interesting mechanic (although unlikely to be implemented soon) would be "perceived" borders. Show some sort of bordering to display where the AI expects you to not settle, as it is right now you basically are guessing if the AI will be ok with your city placement or not.
 
I think that is handled well with the "don't settle near our lands" mechanic. I use it a lot, and the AI sometimes does, too.
 
I think that is handled well with the "don't settle near our lands" mechanic. I use it a lot, and the AI sometimes does, too.

Except that they make a city right next to you and then get mad that you're near them. It's a neat way to deal with it but I don't know that it works yet.
 
If nothing else, I'd really like to see a fix for the strategic AI to be alert to the possibility of switching to a faster/easier victory condition... Won a game I really shouldn't have today because Tokugawa took over most of the world, built Apollo Program presumably because he had nothing else to build, then sat around for over a hundred years not building a spaceship because he was 'going military'. I was able to sit around, catch up on tech, and beat him with a wave of Giant Death Robots.

Other obvious things I'd love to see are better tactical AI, and more things to 'do' with the diplomacy AI.

And for crying out loud, do SOMETHING about the AI treating its visible range as its borders... I'm getting very tired of AIs telling me not to settle near them, or that my army is threatening because they have a scout hanging around the other end of the map, thinking that an unrelated patch of ground on the other side of the world is 'their' territory.

In that above thread I love the guy who wants to 'insult the AI'...I shot milk out my nose.
Hilariously enough, I was thinking how nice this would be after knocking Alexander down to one city and leaving him to stew while I dealt with more pressing wars. All it would serve to do is annoy people, but it's an option the AI has which we don't, and it might be useful for making people go to war with you without making you look like the aggressor.
 
2. Most importantly, Better Documentation. Honestly, I don't care specifically what changes are made as long as we have some idea of what our actions will do. It doesn't have to be specific to the point of exact numbers (I actually think any change in relationship modifiers should have a random element, like they do with leader personalities), but people shouldn't also be forced to act blindly either. A general tool tip that says "this will help in this area" would be nice.


Good point indeed.

I also sometimes miss the consequence of a specific action cause it is not documented and being it not explicit there is no way to understand the backround consequences of an act.
 
I don't think that this is what people are asking for *at all*! What people *are* asking for is that genuinely good behaviour towards the AI be rewarded through the actions of that AI towards you. Obviously what kindnesses they rank higher than others will depend on their flavors-& its true that in some games some AI's won't give a *toss* about your kindness, but will simply see it as a sign of weakness (whereas they might respect your *military* strength!) Either way, its about the AI seeming much less *random* & *Cut-throat* than it currently is!

Aussie.

Exactly!!!
I also think if you have not gone to war with anyone in a long period of time, that their attitude that you are a warmonger ("Ah, the bloodthirsty one shows his face!") dissipates like the city-state influence does. Especially if you have not attacked the civ in question!
 
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